Did you choose a specific breed of dog?

[lostforgottensoul]

And don't get me started on all the Husky SDs

That one bothers the hell out of me!

I got lucky with a pitbull but if I can go through a breeder I will stick with the 4 breeds (Golden, standard Poodle, lab, or rough coat collie) or will go with a great dane. Who has proven to be a good SD. Newfies are high on the list too. My consideration is one big enough to do mobility.

but it's like they don't actually understand their SD isn't a pet dog and breed really should be secondary to what they <need> the SD to do.

This! I have some favorite breeds but the only breed consideration is can it do the tasks Im asking of it and has it been proven to make a good service dog?

 

[Sideways]

To be fair on first time dog owners, and SD handlers in particular - there's a shitload of dumb advice coming from seemingly reputable sources, especially on social media.

The right thing to do is ask, and toss around ideas, just like @Mee has done here. There may be a reason a doberman would be absolutely perfect for Mee. Situations do vary a lot!

 

[Mee]

This sounds like a truly bizarre list to me. What made you pick them?

Dobermans aren't typically used as SDs. Two key reasons: first, even with very active socialisation and training from a young age, they don't tolerate strangers too well (super protective), which SDs have to do every time they're out working.

Second, they need a shittonne of exercise (think having your dog running alongside you while you cycle for at least 40 minutes a day), and mental stimulation to keep them from getting bored (which again, SDs have to tolerate reeeeeally well, since a big part/most of their job is lying quietly beside you wherever you happen to be). They get irritable without sufficient exercise or if they get bored, and when irritable, are prone to aggression because of their breeding (being alert and protecting shit comes as naturally to them as herding sheep comes to border collies).

Most people with a disability can't commit to that kind of daily exercise regime, and don't have the background in dog training that a doberman is likely to require to make a safe SD option.

Are they truly loveable and affectionate towards their immediate family and absolutely stunning looking dogs? Absolutely. But will they tolerate idiot strangers every day and long periods of boredom at your side? Nup.

Is there a reason you've chosen a Doberman for your list? Poodles require a lot of exercise, but nothing like the kind of exercise required to satisfy a doberman. They also tend to loooove attention from strangers (super helpful quality with SDs), and if exercised adequately, will be quite happy to lay beside you for long periods of time. They don't tend to need the kind of skill with their training that dobermans require because of their breeding history...

Poodles have their own issues (epilepsy comes to mind - sadly common, so get the lowdown on your breeder). But in terms of the amount of work and skill required to transform them from pet to SD - they're a cake walk compared with dobermans.

Yes.
There is good reason .
Doberman was the breed suggested by the first two specialists in ptsd service dog placements for me. Plus I have owned one before - though as a child.

That I have owned one before made me know the draw backs for me ( which aren’t actually exercise which I can provide on the farm even on my low mobility days- even now my dogs get two hours exercise a day - I train a command for ‘ go run‘ and they run the. Return and get sent away again while I do the outside chores twice a day. Plus we have a canine tread mill ( which I think is the worst way to exercise a dog personally - I rather let them get mental stimulation in the field, but when I have sight hounds in particular I feel they need a good sprint too- in winter than can be hard to provide.


my fear is in fact the protective nature of the Doberman. I think my current state of mind will not interact well with a Doberman’s protective nature.

However there are particular reasons that a Doberman was recommended for me in particular over the other recommended poodle which I don’t really want to share here .

Both have very real drawbacks. If one were a clear winner / I guess the decision might have been made months ago. It’s not a decision I am taking lightly- at all.


I also agree there are some very odd breed choices as service dogs. I disagree with the right handler the Doberman is a weird choice - I do think I might not be the right handler however.

FWIW - my decision is not unguided morning uninformed but I understand your concern. My preferred pet breeds none of them would make acceptable service dogs :(. Other mooted breeds by those who know my situation and needs included German Shepard. Not lab or retriever. This might inform those who have worked with the dog matching people before ( I have not) of what was being seen as useful in a service dog for me that I don’t particularly care to highlight.

 

[siniang]

This absolutely was not targeted against you @Mee , because you're doing the right thing, as Sideways mentioned, in asking questions and asking for advice.

Sorry, didn't mean to be condescending :oops: , but it's really been irking me and was more of a general statement/observation. Just too many SD huskies on ecollars and prongs ... ...people wouldn't consider a yorki for mobility work, would they? So why don't they do their homework when it comes to PsychSDs?

But you're correct @Sideways, there's a lot of terrible advice from so called professionals.

Again, sorry. Kinda reactive short-fuse kine day.

------

ETA: @Mee

Did I understand correctly you're potentially looking at a mix of Doberman and standard Poodle? Keep in mind that while both breeds may have important and preferable traits you <need>, there's no guarantee the mix will have both. Randomly mixing breeds is a gamble, for looks (secondary), for health, and most importantly for behavioral traits. Just because those "breeders" claim they do the breeding responsibly, these designer dogs are still "just mutts" genetically (no judgment, just biology) and the outcome is and always will be unpredictable and a gamble, no matter how much they claim otherwise.

Just some thoughts from your friendly neighborhood biologist :)

ETA2: It's like someone needing retrival tasks but having a non-retriever doodle (I've also seen someone trying to train a teacup poodle) and are surprised they're having a hard time teaching their dogs retrieval. Possible? Yes. But if that's a task you rely on and already know this? There're more suitable breeds out there. Like you'd go with a big breed (Great Dane e.g.) when needing mobility work over a tiny breed.

Different breeds exist specifically because people have selected for specific traits in the first place.

 

[Mee]

This absolutely was not targeted against you @Mee , because you're doing the right thing, as Sideways mentioned, in asking questions and asking for advice.

Sorry, didn't mean to be condescending :oops: , but it's really been irking me and was more of a general statement/observation. Just too many SD huskies on ecollars and prongs ... ...people wouldn't consider a yorki for mobility work, would they? So why don't they do their homework when it comes to PsychSDs?

But you're correct @Sideways, there's a lot of terrible advice from so called professionals.

Again, sorry. Kinda reactive short-fuse kine day.

That’s ok

And fwiw it wouldn’t matter if it is. My feelings are less important than the issue - which is part of why I’m feeling a bit - tense- myself.

I have see. Breeds I have thirty years experience with used as service dogs on SM and it’s crazy . They simply don’t have the smarts nor frankly the longevity. I imagine it’s going to stress the dog out longer term and lead to frustration for - ultimately - 2-3 years of working life.

These same accounts often get very cross about pet dogs in public spaces - something that is IMO - something that is rest for animal welfare - even if I am sure I will find it tough if I do proceed with a service dog ( another reason to look for a breed with aptitude and want to be aloof when working at least)

Oft - my terrier would be good at the last bit ?. Shame he’d flunk every thing else.

Edit -
no - my short list is either Doberman, poodle and one other breed ( modern breed which I cannot remember how to spell, it’s German Shepherd cross essentially - ).

All have different pros and cons . Like ‘ if I were never goi g to come across other people that breed would be the best , apart from grooming costs that breed would be the best , if I didn’t get nevous myself that breed would be the best ..


As it is I am not in a rush . Things aren’t changing for me in a hurry. It’s a huge decision. There is no ‘ideal dog’ and ultimately I have to make changes to adapt to things a dog cannot- those expectations have to be realistic for both of us.

 

[user27357]

great thread, fun hearing about all of your dogs. I will chime in as I am proudly opinionated on most subjects.

I couldn't tell you how many dogs I have been in contact with in my life- there was a family cocker/poodle when I was little, Irish setters came and went, lots of farm dogs during the summers at my uncles farm, and the long list of dogs my wife and I have rescued since we became land owners ourselves.

We chose boxer/lab mixed on two occasions, and both times we got rough and tumble ladies that would gladly take on any danger that approached my kids. They were by far the best suited to the needs at the time but both of those girls would be miserable here now with just us old folk to look after. An English bulldog was a lot of trouble to maintain but loyal and plugged in to everything that went on around her, she would be happy to sit and watch a sunset. Our Rottweillers ranged from zippy sprinters that lived on cruise control set at about 80 to big porch pansies that held grudges if not allowed to come along on a trip to the store.

My current dog is a male Labrador, he could have been papered and bred but we wanted a neutered male, they get along with any other dog that knows how to behave in a pack just fine. I chose to stick with neutered males after my kids moved out and got their own dogs because we didn't want trouble when the grand dogs came around.

Even a spayed female is more about pecking order than a neutered male, next would be an unaltered male and sadly, the most loyal female dogs are also the most dominance insecure dogs we have had. They need to reassure themselves constantly about who is in charge and they all think it is themselves. My advice is unless you want to breed responsibly, alter the dogs. Especially females, and males if you want the most accomodating hosts to other dogs that you can have.

My best friend is my AMAZING Henry, a chocolate lab that hasn't reached two years old yet so he is still growing at 110 lbs! He is a first class swimmer with webbed toes out to the tips (almost) on a paw that stretches almost the span of my hand! My wife has a neutered male black lab and they are such great friends that they entertain each other when we are pooped.

The hip thing is a problem, select a good reputable breeder that will share the sad stories too because any lab breeder has had a few. I pick pups that will allow me to hold them on their back in the crook of my arm without panicking and calling mom to the rescue. It's just a way to try to see if they are going to be submissive or rebelious and strong headed. Henry was very submissive and bringing him home to a bulldog and a rottweiller lab mix kind of pounded him into his place at the bottom of the pecking order, but he is now the biggest handsomest most eager to please lab I have ever had, and happy in all weathers to boot.

Choosing our boys came as a result of many many days with dogs behind us, and we are without reservation in our love of the labs.

 

[Mee]

great thread, fun hearing about all of your dogs. I will chime in as I am proudly opinionated on most subjects....

The hip thing is a problem, select a good reputable breeder that will share the sad stories too because any lab breeder has had a few.

It is a good thread.

I will also say their is anxiety for me because I have never had to search for a breeder- I bought dogs I knew from great lines I knew. When my last dog got ill we chose an unresearched breed but in group So I could make phone calls and judge friends knew the lines and health and gossip and confirmed things the breeder was saying.

I could buy a dog in my known breeds anywhere in the world with confidence, or in group with a phone call, once I go wider I know I have less knowledge- that makes me nervous.

Even choosing a pup. I have never had to choose a dog for this kind of role - and that’s pressure which makes me anxious.

 

[siniang]

Even choosing a pup. I have never had to choose a dog for this kind of role - and that’s pressure which makes me anxious.

I can't speak for every breed, but for the breeds I can speak (fab 4 breeds), reputable breeders do puppy testing, either themselves (check their credentials whether they do have sufficient experience) or they ask experienced trainers/evaluators for help - and they usually also don't object if you yourself bring along a trainer to do the testing. You can tell a breeder exactly what you're looking for/need and they will be able to judge whether a pup from their litter will be able to meet the requirements. Because even within the same litter, there's a wide variety of temperaments and suitabilities for all kinds of different works (when from working lines) and/or to "just" be a pet "family dog" (because at least when you go within working lines - disregard breeds that have been specifically bred to be companion dogs, they're excellent family dogs by default -, many are actually not made out to be mere pets that just tag along and aren't enriched according to their specific needs -- think high-drive hunting dog or husky that're condemned to a life on the couch; higher such a chance to find a dog that's contempt with mere family life when you go within show lines ... tho they again may not actually have the marbles to be brilliant SDs).

A reputable breeder will work with you from day one and will listen to and address all your concerns.

 

[Sideways]

@Mee - living on a farm is definitely one of those personal situations that changes the game a lot. So yeah, obviously dogs that are particularly active would be far less of a problem for you than most folk. And, potentially massively beneficial if it gets you outside, without the safety or energy issues of leaving home, to exercise your doggos.

I have a friend who is onto her 2nd german shepherd as her SD. For her? The ingrained protective factor the breed comes with was a massive drawcard, rather than a setback. Her lifestyle meant that it wasn't really a problem - she didn't exactly do shopping centres and stuff much, and needed the personal space that those larger protective (and familiar - people are more likely to recognise Rotties, Dobermans and such, and steer clear) breeds give. For some people, that's the whole point of having the dog in the first place!

And tbh, our program will train anything. Daschunds to Wolfhounds. How much the handler gets out of the service side varies, sure. But at the end of the day, if you get in young enough, most dogs are trainable to certain standard. We've had all sorts of mutts come through our program and their handlers are always happier than not, you know (that said, I can't think of anyone who's tried to get a Boxer through the program - that would be hands down the funnest doggo to try and wrangle into a serious SD!!).

So, there gets a point where you can overthink it I reckon. It's always the case that you never really know, and can only do your best. They're animals, not mathematical equations, right!?

I have a Maltese x Shih-Tzu (yup - I gotta mutt!). He's got his limits, training took (continues to take) patience (bless him, he hates having to behave for too many hours...unless he's on my lap!!), but he more than adequately does his job, and a whole lot more. It's that 'whole lot more' is what nearly any dog is gonna bring to the equation.

This is something to be excited about. If you live on a farm? Almost any dog is going to love that. And they're gonna love you:)

ETA I should probably put it out there that I'm the kind of trainer who sees a terrier and is over the moon at the prospect of working with them. I love, love, love dogs that spray out personality with every inch of their being, even if it means they're a bit rusty round the edges with the training side!

 

[Freida]

I'm a rottie girl so that would have my first choice before I understood what being in public with a service dog meant. My trainer said "you will never be "unseen" again" and she was right

Everyone sees SD....and I mean everyone. And they feel free to comment because he is a bit unusual looking and a service dog. It gets exhausting.

While rotties do make great service dogs because they are super smart it would be hard to deal with the constant commentary from those who think they are vicious. Now that I've done it once with SD and I have way more confidence in my skills I will probably get one in the future if I need one

 

[Sideways]

While rotties do make great service dogs because they are super smart

Gotta say, it's been a long time since I've had to train a Rottie - definitely I've never trained one to be an SD. So, take it with a grain of salt, but it helps a lot if the handler is active and naturally outgoing, because the socialisation is super important. Only dog I've ever been attacked by was a well-socialised rottie, who got over-excited (he was excited that is...I was 14, and friggin terrified!) when he got paired with another male dog, and the 2 of them got over-protective.

As dogs go, they can be harder to train for newbies because of their sheer size. They're not easy dogs to keep in line if training has been left till they're 1 or 2 years old. As an experienced trainer, I find them a lot harder to read, because the absence of a tail means they are sending out a shittonne less body language than other dogs, which leaves you having to try and read their mind a bit.

They're a fascinating breed, really, if you go into their history. Their size is one of their biggest pros and cons simultaneously. Because they aren't just tall, they're big, you know? Drawcard for a lot of people, but they're rightfully intimidating since too many folk don't keep them well-socialised.

Probably we haven't had one come through our program because people tend to steer clear of them for SDs because of the sheer cost involved in such big dogs. Our program prioritises people on low incomes, so our intake is slightly skewed like that.

I personally don't recommend them as SDs when I'm chatting with people (they're a pretty popular breed in my area tbh, and I'm pretty laid back when it comes to breeds, because a handler will be the one to give up on training long before either me or the dog will!), because I know a lot of people will tell you that you can expect a lifespan of 12 years, so working to at least 10, but honestly they very often don't make it to 10 years (heartbreaking - usually very short lifespans like that are your super large breeds). Here, the dog can't get certified till they're at least 2, which means you're lucky to get 8 years of working life. With so many around that seriously just make their 8th birthday, it's something to consider.

But like you said, @Freida - they're perfect for you. And that's kinda how dog breeds are. There's perfect breeds for everyone, because every person's situation is different.

Hardest dog I ever had to train was actually a Brussel terrier. Surprised me with how work-motivated he was, but it was back-breaking work with this hand-sized dog. But then, that's why the owner picked him, because she spent hours holding him against her chest with one hand. Perfect for her, nightmare for someone else!

 

[Mee]

@Mee - Boxer through the program - that would be hands down the funnest doggo to try and wrangle into a serious SD!!).
!

have seen one on insta. :).
stil waiting to see an Afghan - but seen a saluki.