Childhood Early Attachment Problems

[Flower Power]

I fear the people I love, because by loving them I hand them the power to destroy me.

I totally can relate to this. Being wounded by the ones closest to us really messes with our heads in that we are afraid to not just love them but anyone else for that matter. Love and Fear cannot exist in the same breath. They cancel each other out. Fear extinguishes any love that could be possible when you are worried about surviving. I have backed away from almost all of my family because it is not safe to love them because they are so vicious in their dysfunctional methods of relating, which look more like "dog eat dog" and "draw first blood" versus actually having a decent relationship where both people are being real. When being authentic is not ok in a family, everyone is terrified of coming out from behind their walls, then no loving relationship is possible.Love requires being open. I cannot be open with these people. I do not trust them and they have proven over many years that they can cause me extreme pain with their callusness, hardness, harsh words, etc, abandonment and rejection. I do have people in my life that don't act like this and treat me like a decent human being. Sometimes we just have to seek out healthier relationships with healthier people for our own good and for our own survival. I know that I read recently it said that the reason there is so much deep anguish and desperation in seeking relationship with parents is because our very existence and survival depended on them as a child. If they didn't like us, want us, care for us etc., it mean't as a infant, child, etc we would probably be left some where under a bush to die. It is an instinctual desperation to be noticed, to be seen, to be acknowledged so we could survive. Now that we are older and we hopefully are no longer dependent on them to this degree we can breathe on our own. It doesn't however mean that we have broken the habbit of the desperate returning cycle of constantly seeking acceptance and acknowledgement from those who have denied giving it to us. It is not love that gives them the power over you, it is seeking their approval and acceptance and allowing that to determine what you think about yourself. Using their BS to determine your value or lack of value, that is the trap. If they like me, see me, accept me than I am ok. If they don't than I am a worthless, and unworthy of being loved. No! Reframe! I am an awesome, incredible human being, who happens to love some very messed up people. They are not in charge of determining how I think and value myself. God is and he says I am his, and I am awesome and extremely loved.

 

[Gucci]

If you google youtube (can't embed the vid here) for 'attachment styles', check out the one by 'Scarlet Moon', which is a three-parter on attachment styles and how it plays out later in life. Very informative!

 

[Chava]

Going to see if I have any luck with one of @Gucci 's links. ??

I relate so much to deeply avoidant pattern (why the theory is very valid to me)....keeping "close"-ish by not actually seeking affection, being sort of unnoticed, and also kind of ignoring caregiver. And yes, it plays out in all of my adult relationships. I feel like I keep my friends by never actually contacting them or spending time with them. Eventually, I don't have friends. After a couple years I am maybe lucky to make one or two new friends, then repeat... I realize I create my own isolation but I feel like I don't even have the right set of neurons to act differently. It takes a lot of thought and work and pain.

It seems to work okay at work, where nobody has to get very close anyway and we are held together by common goals. But reaching out to others, connecting or even sustaining what could be a good friendship feels like forever climbing a very steep hill. I'm not wired to respond to friendships or create them...but I notice some structure helps, like AA for me. Then through time and just showing up, it starts to feel like there are some people who know me and who I can be a friend or support to...reciprocal relationship stuff that I didn't experience growing up.

 

[Kintsugi]

I'm less than four minutes in and the above video has struck such a strong chord with me I cannot even watch it right now.

 

[ms spock]

:hug: if you accept @Simply Simon

 

[Rumors]

Yes, @Simply Simon, hugs to you. Hang in there...

 

[Flower Power]

Wow. That was definitely right between the eyes for me. I now understand so much better why I have existed this way in my family relationships and all other relationships in my life. The struggle between wanting and desiring relationships desparately, yet only having one crayon in the box to go with, this avoidant/detachment insanity doesn't build a whole lot of people in my life. The early childhood training definitely spoke volumes to me as to how this all got created in the first place. The best relationship with my abusive mother was stay as far away as possible, have no needs and you better damn well not ask for anything, and then all would go well. When I first got married I ran straight into this when my husband could not understand why I could not ask him for what I needed from him. He let me know it was ok, and I burst into tears because it had never been ok in my life before....so sad. But it does get better with practice with a safe person. God bless you. I am right there with you.

 

[watundah]

Those were excellent videos for basic intros of the styles. Thank you. I realized from watching them a giant shift in my self. As a young woman in my late teens and 20s, I was so anxious about people abandoning me, especially in romantic relationships, I was always afraid they would cheat on me and I couldn't trust them so I would cling. Now over time Ive swung to avoidant! Meeehhhh...I don't really want you to be close and I favor my alone time best of all. Now, about that center point of secure attachments. My partner and I have a fairly healthy relationship but I must have alone time or become extremely agitated. This has been a big issue as we're both currently unemployed and I often feel smothered simply by her physical presence. She is my one real relationship, my anchor who I trust and talk to. Everyone else, well, they have to stay...over there..I am in therapy for "connection" but we have not specifically labeled it as an attachment issue. My trust with my therapist has been a huge challenge and I sometimes wonder as my relationship grows with her is it growing in parallel in the real world? Wouldn't that be nice. I haven't made a new friend in years. That would be huge. Maybe I should make that a goal for 2016.

 

[Gucci]

I think attachment issues are so complicated because in young children, there are neural/hormonal changes that happen under conditions of distress. In that sense, a child is being conditioned in a very particular way and if she's subjected to high levels of stress/anxiety for prolonged periods, this is exceedingly problematic.
I think it was Roy Baumeister who published research indicating that negative experiences were far more powerful than positive experiences, and tended to leave their mark more strongly - great! It makes sense that we're biologically wired to notice 'negative' experiences; after all, it's about survival and you need to figure out the dangers quickly and avoid them.
John Gottman, a researcher who studies couples in relationships, states that for every negative comment, you need FIVE to counteract its crummy effects. That only reinforces the view that negative experiences have a greater impact than positive ones.
If your mainframe has been habituated to stress, conflict, danger, anxiety and fear, it's extremely difficult to alter deeply-entrenched habits and patterns. This is why it's so exhausting, and feels like you're perpetually swimming against the current. So how to change the corrupt programming that was downloaded into us?
Each person is so different and requires a bespoke suite of tools to shift certain patterns of behaviour. Awareness is a big one for sure. And then it's a question of searching and trying what is useful for you. Someone whose youtube videos I've found extremely informative is a British guy named Richard Grannon - he addresses cptsd/narcissistic abuse/adverse childhood experiences.
Pia Mellody is also very well-known and her vids on boundaries, codependence and self-esteem in particular are stellar.

 

[Kintsugi]

I finally asked my T what attachment style she thought I was, and she said disorganized with an emphasis on insecure-anxious. I watched the insecure-anxious video from Scarlet Moon that @Gucci recommended, and I saw a lot of myself in it, but I also saw a lot of myself in the avoidant one. I think I definitely oscillate between the two in a lot of situations; I tend to be very hot and cold (this is where my "clusterf*ck B" features, as I call them, come into play). I either need someone around all the time who I am completely devoted to, or I will entirely avoid that person to the point of utter numbness toward them.

I think my first instinct when I am trying to find a middle ground in a relationship is to be extremely avoidant. I do not seek attention, I suppress thoughts about the relationship (this goes for all relationships--friendships, family, co-workers, romantic, etc.), I avoid more casual contact with the relationship (a quick chat with a friend, for instance, over the phone). Once I am shown attention from that relationship, however (and I am telling you, this is all relationships, including something like a text message from my boss), I tend to either completely brush off the interaction by ignoring it or I over-invest in reciprocating the attention, often to a disproportionate level. For example, if my best friend sends me a couple of text messages, it will turn into me trying to keep his attention for hours, often changing the subject if I think he is losing interest to continue to garner more attention from him (the opposite side of that is ignoring the attention completely and never giving any response so as to ensure I don't bore him or say something he finds tasteless).

Conversely, if I am trying to build the strongest and most intense relationship possible with another person, I think my behavior is much more anxious. I don't feel calm unless I am channeling my obsession to please the person by giving them lots of attention, researching gifts, or making changes in my life that I believe will make me more pleasing or compatible to that person. I will go so far as to change my eating, sleeping, or musical habits if I think it will create me as more compatible to the person I am trying to please. All this, and the other person most likely has no idea I'm doing it.

If I feel ignored or neglected by the person I am fixating on, I am likely to either become extremely avoidant and cold or throw an inappropriate tantrum over anything I think will give me the attention or reassurance I'm looking for. Avoidance in this case is much more comfortable than throwing a tantrum (tantrums are a rather extreme response I have when something has "pushed me over the edge," whether that thing is internal or external to said relationship). I can, to some extent, control the situation through avoidance, shutting out the perceived slight rather than confronting my own sense of hurt. Typically, if I'm not sure I am wanted or needed in a relationship (of any kind), I will completely ignore the other party until I am shown further proof of the other party's commitment, rather than being straight forward about feeling neglected, ignored, or otherwise slighted by the other party. And then, I will never bring up the slight. I will merely either over obsess on how to ensure I am not ignored in the future, or I will continue being utterly avoidant as a preemptive measure against feeling ignored in the future (you can't ignore me if I pay you no mind at all).

Something that hit me really hard in the video about insecure-anxious attachment was the idea that for such people, it is preferable to be compatible over being honest. That, right there, is the heart of so many of my issues in relationships, and it permeates everything from the trivial ("I love macaroons. Do you?" "Uhm, yeah, I like them." [I f*cking hate macaroons!]) to the important ("I think it would be a smart move to buy a house. What do you think?" "Great idea!" [I really do not want that sort of commitment in my life right now.]).

In a relationship that I am wholly invested in, I will almost always say what I think the other person wants to hear rather than my honest opinion, which particularly creates problems because I have extreme difficulty accessing what are, in fact, my honest feelings, likes, dislikes, etc. when I feel that there is a "right" answer to be had. I often couldn't tell someone what I really feel or honestly believe, because it's like my entire emotional and logical response to such inquiries is automatically geared toward trying to deliver the answer I think the other party wants.

Inevitably, in an intense and ongoing relationship, the dishonesty will be rooted out, because I will often contradict myself or jump around in trying to find that "right" answer based on the feedback I think I'm interpreting over time. Because I am not accessing my own feelings or beliefs but rather attempting to mirror some hidden "right" answer, I will eventually begin contradicting things I've said previously because I don't even know what I'm trying to say: I'm pursuing some invisible ideal, like some sort of emotional ghost hunter who doesn't know what they're looking for or how to find and deliver this amorphous ideal.

Whew. So, that's where I'm at in trying to understand where all of my weird disordered personality features and destructive relationship patterns stem from. :hungover:

 

[Chava]

I think avoidant can definitely be a way to cope with the disorganized/anxious patterns. I also relate to some of both. Sometimes my avoidance comes from actually caring but having that fear of rejection that is so painful in anxious patterns. But more often I have very little anxiety and never have what could be considered intense or even involved relationships. I just don't get there. I don't need anyone and I'm turned off by closeness. I really think I have "friends" by attending their birthday party once a year and declining every other invitation to get together.

With my therapist I don't feel like I so much need attention sometimes as the reassurance that we have a connection of some kind...like she's real or she has not forgotten about me. Naturally I've committed to sticking with that relationship a little deeper than the kinds of friendships I have. So I tip into something disorganized. I feel like I've gotten better, but I used to e-mail her sometimes a few times a day, in meltdown mode. If she didn't respond fast enough it was like I stopped existing. I assume this is super early attachment trauma stuff, abandonment stuff (I was left alone at the hospital early on, a couple times, and also just had a mom that wavered between angry, depressed, and dissociative...but generally consistently disconnected...I really did not exist to her consistently)...I have object permanency issues in several ways and it's been really interesting to notice how over the last year or so that it feels like my therapist is still "there" even when I can't see her or have constant contact. I've developed some more normal representation of the relationship and I know I still exist to her.

Not sure if that makes sense. It sounds crazy, but it's really helped me to recognize a lot of this stuff and I hope it's helpful to you too as you notice and learn more about yourself.

 

[Kintsugi]

This isn't scripted well, but I recongize this attitude in myself, especially when I was younger:

Such a discussion when I was a child might go like this:

Mother: What do you want to do for your birthday?
Me: I don't know.
Mother: Do you want to have a party for your friends?
Me: You mean a party for me?
Mother: Well, yeah, with all your friends?
Me: None of my friends know each other.
Mother: Yeah, but it's a party. Everyone will have a good time.
Me: How can I have friends there who don't know each other? How will I interact with such different people?
Mother: Simon, it's a party. It will be fine.
Me: No. I don't want that.
Mother: Do you want maybe just a few friends? Your close ones?
Me: No. They won't get along and they'll get mad at me.
Mother: So no party?
Me: I guess not. I don't like parties anyway.
Mother: Okay, Simon. Whatever.
Me (becoming extremely distressed): Do I still get to have a cake?

At which point my mother would throw in the towel on trying to please me and walk away or desperately attempt to comfort me by asking what I really want, which I would be unable to answer, leading to the throwing in the towel thing.

I had this sort of situation happened several years ago when I visited my parents on a trip home from college. My mother was asking what I wanted to eat for dinner, and I had a complete meltdown, because I felt like going out for dinner should be an option, but it wasn't an option she was presenting. I have this bizarre, desperate, extremely deep feeling that my presence is not desired, so doing something celebratory or out of the ordinary for me isn't worth it. We wound up having an insane fight about the idea of going out for dinner. Once I expressed that the reason I was becoming increasingly emotional was because I wanted her to offer going out as an option, she was amenable to that, but then I didn't want to, because it felt forced. Once she assured me that it wasn't a big deal, I didn't know where I wanted to eat, and it just turned into this insane Simon-style no-win situation where I wouldn't feel happy no matter what happened. It all felt like contrived love to me, like I was being placated, which is the last sort of attention I wanted to receive. It was all extremely weird and sticks out in my memory as a massively terrible evening.

I feel utterly insane talking about these sorts of situations, but I know they still affect me. To this day, I try not to have an opinion of what I want in a group situation so as to avoid any sense of a need or desire that isn't being met. My birthday this year was a prime example of suppressing my own desires to avoid a sense of disappointment. I love birthdays. I love other people's birthdays. I like to make people feel loved by directing an intense amount of focus on what they want and fulfilling whatever I think might make them happy for the occasion. I spend a lot of energy trying to figure out how to elongate the celebration of their birthday, how to make them feel appreciated, how to make the week or weekend of their birthday extra special.

When I do not receive unsolicited attention for my birthday, it fills me with a really deep sense of dread and self-loathing, but feeling like I have to make my own birthday special for it to be celebrated at all makes me feel even worse about the whole thing. This year, aside from all you lovely people on the forum, was a complete bust for me, and I still feel like an unlovable piece of shit. Worse, like a little kid, I continue to feel cheated out of a day that should have been special but was not at all. When am I going to let go of my preadolescent mind set about this crap???

Anyway, moving on, I've just now read @Chava 's response.

I suffer from issues of object permanence as well. That's what makes avoidance so easy for me. Things that are not right here, right now just don't feel real at all to me, especially people. My co-worker was moved to a different job site about a month or two ago (time is elusive), and I have not reached out to her a single time since I heard she was moved. I feel terribly about it, but she's just not a real person in my head anymore, even though we were quite close.

Things that are right here, right now, though? Are my entire focus. Anything that interferes with that focus is a threat to be tossed aside and buried. New relationship? Goodbye, best friend--I'm too busy to juggle both you and my relationship, and now you no longer even exist in my worldview as a three dimensional person! :bag:

The only relationship I have that seems to fully transcend all this muck is my attachment to my beagle. Not to both of my dogs. To my beagle. She is the one being that always feels real and always feels important and indisposable in my world. Maybe she doesn't even transcend these patterns, she is just the highest priority relationship I will even attain? I don't really know what that's about.