Childhood Early Attachment Problems

[Gucci]

Yep - as much as we might want to believe that we can go it alone, humans (and most mammals) are wired for connection and will never do well in isolation. Sometimes I watch vids of kittens in a litter just to enjoy how much they seek out/crave physical contact - they're all over each other, they sleep piled on top of one another, they're avidly nursing and kneading and mewling away, and the mother is constantly grooming/cleaning the babies. It's stunning how visceral that drive is for contact and communication.

Why do you think shunning is so effective? Cutting people off from a clearly-defined context where they feel they have a place and depriving them of all those complex, intertwined connections and innumerable interpersonal exchanges is terrible emotional and psychological amputation. Humans fear that prospect enough to stay in all kinds of awful situations (cults, abusive relationships, religious groups, ruthless high school cliques). Extended periods of isolation in prisons is now being considered a human rights violation. Romanian infants in those terrible orphanages suffered irreversible cognitive and psychological damage due to a lack of touch/eye contact/attention.

Those of us who grew up bereft of physical affection and emotional attunement bc of shitty caretaking have been starved of fundamental developmental necessities. I'm sure that's why I was even crazier about animals. I could touch them, they responded, and actually freakin' looked at me! And ain't that trifecta of 'connection, contact and fun' the essence of healthy interaction? Chava, you hit the nail on the head. :)

I live in Canada, and the government seems to recognise the value of canine companions for many soldiers with PTSD - way more effective than meds, way cheaper, and it provides them with concrete, tactile connection as a way to ground themselves when they're out and about or having flashbacks. My cat has grounded me on many occasions, and the tactile interaction with him is invaluable - grooming him, hearing him purr, mauling him with ostentatious kisses.

Sometimes animals are the only avenue for traumatised people to experience nonjudgmental, unconditional acceptance and safety. Far more difficult to experience that with humans when we've been so scalded by adverse early experiences. For me, life is all about the relational, and figuring out effective workarounds/communication strategies to be able to connect with other humans is the fundamental challenge I'm working on. Bloody tough, and you have to be uber-compassionate and kind to yourself and make sure to conserve your energy. Baby-baby steps at a time...

gucci

 

[Chava]

Cutting people off from a clearly-defined context where they feel they have a place and depriving them of all those complex, intertwined connections and innumerable interpersonal exchanges is terrible emotional and psychological amputation. Humans fear that prospect enough to stay in all kinds of awful situations

I relate to this kind of scenario not at all. This is the truth of attachment problems. I have a very far buried interest in connecting. But for most of my life I've felt most joy and happiness "connecting" to nature or ideas of my higher power. So there is a connection seed. I have warmed up to my therapist. But I'd still rather read books than spend time with people. That's introversion extreme. But also, I wasn't just neglected but physically hurt by primary caregiver. That's why connection is so foreign that it feels unsafe, scary, painful, and I feel quite well connecting to nature, art, etc. I feel contained within myself, safe, but also connected to something infinite or beyond myself. I didn't have a safe cozy connection anywhere in my home, though I had a couple good friends as a kid. I do enjoy sharing some of the cool things about life with others. But I can almost take it or leave it.

I fully understand the human need to connect. But calling non-connection a terrible emotional and psychological amputation doesn't feel quite right either. By refusing to connect with an abusive parent I stayed connected to my self. Disconnection was my psychological safety (and usually still is, though I'm truly working on this in therapy).

Basically, I think it helps to understand attachment as pretty complex...and disconnection and non-attachment definitely have survival and psychological safety purposes, as odd as that seems. A child is born wired to connect (a little better if born via a healthy birth and good oxytocin juju). But in the context of early trauma and abuse, the non-connecting mechanism is just as concerned about survival as the connection one is within a healthy relationship. It's just a terrible spot to be put in. In the state of dorsal vagal shutdown, connection is actually not possible. The nervous system from a state of dorsal vagal shutdown cannot feel warm fuzzies or "connect". It makes as much physiological sense as trying to sleep while you are running.

And try or want as I might, I am still in this state often...and no, the desire to connect really truly is absent most of the time (and I've adapted to life so that I do have some happy times alone too). I will come on here because I do like to connect with other humans, but I have an extremely low desire to get emotionally close to people or have them in my space. I don't shun people and I don't think it's effective. It's just what it is. It's my reality, thank you.

 

[ms spock]

I have a part that is always totally disconnected and a part that totally merges with people, it is really confusing for me (and most likely them as well).

 

[Deleted member 20978]

I don't know if it's the same thing at all but I could write that same statement @Ms Spock . I've always felt on the outside in many ways but also can feel very connected in other ways. And I definitely generate confusion in my wake. :confused:

My oldest friend I mentioned somewhere, she was friends with Damon and dated Affleck. When that movie came out, I felt really really odd. Parts of it felt like lifted from my life. Years later in an even weirder twist, while taking an acting class I was randomly assigned to act the scene where he falls apart and starts pushing her away saying "You don't wanna know about that, do you?!!" The class thought I was really good. I felt seriously confused about reality. I have no point don't listen to me sorry. I just mean to qualify what an odd duck I feel like and yeah, attachment is very confusing. I only want to let people in who are safe, so.. Robin Williams dealt with it by never ever being serious except when he put on serious guy mask. I don't know how I deal with it. Don't know which version of me is real. It's hard. SOrry for my mental spewage. I am finding good tools here about grounding, health, nature, exercise, etc. and I know these things are really important. I wish I could be applying these things myself but I'm pretty timid about leaving home lately.

 

[Chava]

I have a part that is always totally disconnected and a part that totally merges with people, it is really confusing for me (and most likely them as well).

Me too. I show up, seem engaged, then disappear for months. I am well aware that one of the main reasons to understand and work on my relationship stuff a little more consistently is not so much for me, but so I'm not a totally confusing (possibly insulting "friend"). I think this is fairly common among PTSD, but the few quasi-friends I have don't understand any of it. One is really cool with me just showing up to chat at her house a couple times a year....and then missing in action for months. She takes no offense. Most others are confused or lose interest in me, which is completely understandable. I make so little effort to sustain connections.

 

[ms spock]

I make too much effort to sustain friendships and then I too, disappear. I am so weird. My behaviour is really all over the place!

 

[Deleted member 20978]

Whatever

 

[lostforgottensoul]

My T says she thinks I have serious early childhood attachment problems. What the hell does that rea...

Again, im gonna reply without reading other replies like I usually do because I to have possible but not yet diagnosis Attachment Disorder. This was explained in detail to me by my therapist and its possible but not diagnosed because I dont fit the entire criteria. Attachment Disorder can be from many forms of abuse/neglect and can form in early childhood/infantcy all the way to (though uncommon) early adulthood. Basically the extreme form found in the movie and docomentry (2 films) "Child Of Rage" (you can find it on youtube) it can form as serious as that where the child in infant yrs had no human touch or love. In my case (grew up in a Satanic cult) my entire indroduction if you want to read it is here: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/my-story-me.58064/ but the way I was taught to attach or connect to anyone, including family, from as far back as i can remember of age 7 or 6, is through sex. These thoughts are automatic, i dont really want to have sex with the person but my thoughts say thats what im supposed to do; thus possible attachment disorder. Basically the reasoning for it is so broad but to simply define it; its the way that your mind preceives as the correct way to connect or attach to another person isnt the actual correct way to do so; or in severe cases the complete inabilty to connect or attach to someone. Thats as simple as i can make it. Hope that helps.

 

[desiderata310]

I used to idolize mentor types...when younger it was sort of like a fantasy family sometimes....imagining I had someone that really cared about me and was interested in me, like a teacher. But not outwardly clingy---felt more internally in this imaginary connection world. I am guilty of sending way to many e-mails to my therapist and needing reassurance, but then having a hard time even looking at her when I'm actually in her presence...I can easily just go into a bubble. This feels like the disorganized stuff.

*shuffles around uneasily* ummm.. I might understand what you mean a bit something... I don't know.
My therapist talks about me having this as well but I don't know.

 

[ms spock]

My psychiatrist has mentioned a few of these ones. I will have to talk to her about it all.

 

[Chava]

@lostforgottensoul yes, that would sound similar to possibly something like reactive attachment disorder. I know I already mentioned that attachment disorders aren't typically diagnosed in adults (which is a little weird, because kids with RAD don't necessarily "outgrow" something like that, but end up with a list of other diagnosis as adults, like many of us here). I relate quite a bit to the inhibited form of RAD. This bit from Wikipedia, YES:

"Extreme reluctance to initiate or accept comfort and affection, even from familiar adults, especially when distressed"

f*cking right!

And this sums up what it felt like having parent people and a "family", and roughly also what it's like for me to do therapy (I like my therapist, btw):

"In DSM-IV-TR the inhibited form is described as persistent failure to initiate or respond in a developmentally appropriate fashion to most social interactions, as manifest by excessively inhibited, hypervigilant, or highly ambivalent and contradictory responses (e.g., the child may respond to caregivers with a mixture of approach, avoidance, and resistance to comforting or may exhibit "frozen watchfulness", hypervigilance while keeping an impassive and still demeanour)"

I went through a period of being close through sex (and nothing else) and was pretty indiscriminate...slept with anyone (relate to just being "close" that way too, and nothing else). But that was one odd phase for me. Now I avoid physical closeness altogether because my lack of boundaries horrified me and got me into too much trouble.

But my typical daily life involves not reaching out to others, and definitely not reaching out when it would most matter, when I am really stressed...that's exactly when I can't tolerate others. I'm working on this, pretty deliberately, but it's hard. I ended up in ER not so long ago and a friend asked why I didn't reach out to her before ending up in ER and all I could say (honest truth, however illogical) was that I felt like reaching out before ER just didn't make sense. I mean it. It does not make sense to me, just the way calculus does not make sense to me. Why would I reach out to anyone? What for? To need anything from others is to get yourself in more trouble, not less (so says my deepest learning, which is hard to repattern). I will reach out to ER if I am afraid I will destroy myself or I've had a very bad cocktail. I have an AA sponsor who is great, kind, smart...no complaints...but I never contact her. I don't know why/how of it. :bored::alien:

I'm tolerating kindness and comfort from my therapist in little doses. It's not like it's something that automatically feels good to me. Her kindness and gentleness and care felt just f*cking confusing for a long time. But I knew that's also why I had to stick with her (vs keep being drawn to angry people I could safely have no real connection to).

ETA (also from Wikipedia page on RAD):

"The AACAP guidelines state that children with reactive attachment disorder are presumed to have grossly disturbed internal models for relating to others.[6]However, the course of RAD is not well studied and there have been few efforts to examine symptom patterns over time. The few existinglongitudinal studies(dealing with developmental change with age over a period of time) involve only children from poorly run Eastern European institutions.[6]"

Okay, why do we have so much shit science, like "Messy People are More Creative" or "Wearing skinny jeans might be bad for your health" and other bullshit...and nobody is researching what happens to RAD kids as they grow up? What the f*ck?!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I'm tolerating kindness and comfort from my therapist in little doses. It's not like it's something that automatically feels good to me. Her kindness and gentleness and care felt just f*cking confusing for a long time.

My therapist had no idea why i was really going to him every week for a year. Then when a great and celebrity tv Dr gave me the words and courage i did tell him but slowly over 2 yrs; theres a lot to tell. Also at first i struggled A LOT with wanting to come on to him, but not because i had any sort of sexual attraction (though i must say he looks good for his age and looks about 20 yrs younger than he is) but because I felt I had to; its what Im supposed to do. And keep in mind 2 other free therapists had acted on my sexual advances and had sex with me multiple times so that was confusing.

But now after almost 7 yrs of seeing him every week ive come to trust him fully, i feel safe in his office (not in the waiting room), i tell him everything! I dont feel i need to hide anything and i know he wont have any sort of shocked reaction to anything; and thats hard to find, even therapists, due to the gravity and content of my past. Its a lot to digest.

Though i have never came on to my therapist, doing so is called transference, we talk about it a lot. I still have sexual thoughts that are unwanted and intrusive that just pop in my head about him. Like at night, in order to sleep, I have to create sort of a make up movie with me in it to go to sleep. Usually what works the best is he saves me from my 'house of hell' and raises me himself and i just play out in my head how that would go but id say about 50% of the time it turns sexual and i dont want it to. Its f*cking annoying!

Its not that i dont want to connect with people, i do, actually i want that a lot; to have friends (i have no friends), a healthy relationship (no guy is a relationship as i ask for a guy or multiple of guys to have very rough sex with me and ask them to hurt me and to top it off, to make it hurt or hurt worse i'll cut inside and then put rubbibg alcohol in a turkey baster and put it in me right before sex; if its just intercourse anyway) but i long for relationships with people, i just dont know how to without sex involved.

I was a forced prostitue at 12, non-discrimate against gender and my own mother would make me have sex with her (WHICH I HATED) and though i "tried to be gay" (you cant force yourself to be gay) women now terrify me. All my Drs are men except now my MD (reg Dr) left vis pratice to go to the VA and i thought a guy was gonna take his place. Nope, a woman did and i have a physical tomorrow before therapy and have no idea how im gonna keep from hitting her or something.