Gaslighting: Protecting Yourself

[mamachick]

partnergoingma-I am sorry you are going through this too. He sounds passive aggressive too. Sometimes I do not know how to seperate the passive aggressive behavior from gaslighting. Example: he says "Im sorry I locked all the chains on the doors so you could not get in at midnight even though you have your key (repeatedly-everytime I go out at night), I am such a creature of habit that I go around and make sure these things are done out of habit, I would never intentionally......"

To me it feels like crazy making. Not once or twice, but until I took the inside chains/hooks off of all the doors. (like they are any real security anyway). I know thats passive aggressive, but is it gaslighting.

He knew that daughter stopped payment on a check to me, then when I told him he said "what is wrong with you, you dont trust anyone, not even your own daughter (yelling now), I just cant talk to you about this anymore, I know she would never do such a thing." Then she admitted it. He said, I cant believe that she would do that, Im sorry. I know that is gaslighting.

I think I am nuts now. I really think my mind has been so manipulated by living with him for 17 yrs and seperated for 10. Even seperated, we still have children and real estate in common to deal with. It is better apart, but he is also more vicious because he has been abandoned and wants to be together. He will admit to mistakes, but I think its only in hopes of re-uniting, the next day he will contradict himself and say that Im a perfectionist, controlling, and his latest word "masculine" haha

 

[partnergoingmadtoo]

Hi brat, thankyou x

I'm sorry for anyone going through it too.

He has agreed to go back to therapy, as I've told him that HE has eroded my trust to the point that I have withdrawn most of my feelings from our relationship and that I will not take it any more and that if I had anywhere to go, I would be gone. I'm not holding my breath, as if he "sorts" this out something else will come up (one of his "coping mechanisms" from when he was a child).

I agree about feeling crazy, I also told him this before he went out this morning, that he has tried to make me question MY reality and my memory to the point that I'm always wondering "did it happen the way he said,maybe I'm wrong?" Well, I just woke up !!!!

It's not YOUR memory Brat OR mine that is faulty, but them choosing to manipulate us. Stay strong x

 

[mamachick]

Is he going to therapy alone or are you going as a couple? It sounds like he needs individual, but if you could go to couples therapy that would be great.

What is so important about marriage counseling is that both parties are present so there is not minimizing what goes on and you have the opportunity to come out of silence and tell the effects on you and the children. A therapist gets a clear picture and even though he needs individual therapy, you deserve, and likely need, to address how his behavior is effecting you. The therapist can help you learn how to address him without causing you mega further hurt (whether you stay or go).

My ex keeps pressuring to want to get back together and professes his love for me after being apart 10 yrs. I think he doesnt want to share the money and wants someone to take care of him when his mother dies. (he lives with her and she is 83). Finally I told him that I would give it consideration only if HE made an appointment with a couples counselor, that I would go and we could discover if there is anything to salvage. (I care for him, would prefer friendship, have 2 adult children together and many yrs. ) All I want is friendship and probably have issues of letting go. He said he would make appointment. Two weeks went by and he made comments again regarding getting back together. I asked him if he made that appointment. He said NO, he thought about it and it was an unreasonable request, we could work it out on our own. That is because he still thinks he can con me and does not want someone in the room for these conversations that can see the picture objectively.

You stay strong too. I hope that therapy is helpful. If it is not, I know you will figure out a place to go and how to move on. I dont want to be intrusive (you mentioned and older daughter), how many children and how old? I know that is a lot to consider and what resources are available. I am here to listen any time you would like to talk and you can pm me too.

I know it helps me to be reminded that its not my faulty memory because I do end up feeling crazy. You stay strong. You are in my thoughts. ((hugs)) if ok

 

[partnergoingmadtoo]

You pm me too if you feel the need Brat x

We've had a long chat, he doesn't deny any of the lying he's done , but I've told him it stops now because it is the thing that has destroyed our relationship! He's waiting to see a Counsellor and has joined a group for people with depression/mood disorders.

We had a long chat last night, the first "conversation" that we've had in a while.

My daughter is in her 20's and I have a baby grandson as well, no children at home, luckily as I'm not sure I'd cope with kids and the level of anxiety and anger I'm feeling at the moment :-(

Your ex doesn't give up easily does he? I've found in the past that you have to walk away from some people totally to "free" yourself from their games. Good luck x

 

[mamachick]

I hope he is honest and his intent for counseling is for the right reason-to be honest and take responsibility and make necessary changes.

Mine does not give up easily. And unfortunately I am like a paralized person with ptsd, in an emotional and behavioral way. I guess it is indecisvieness but I fear making any move or change and know this is not healthy for me. I need a big kick in the arse I guess. There has to more to life than just surviving.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

My daughters husband beat her one time. She came over here with her girls and I talked her into going to the police. They arrested him and took away all of his guns. He filed for divorce and my daughter filed for a restraining order. He kept on getting continuences. Finally she was granted the restraining order.

In the meanwhile my husband died. Recently I got a sympathy card from him. How he found out I do not know. He wrote a very beautiful note to me and told me that he loved me. It is a very scary situation. It was all a bunch of lies and he did it so well.

If I was dysfunctional I would have written him back. My daughter thinks he is stalking her and he used me. He did not threaten me I any way.

It was as if they were still married and nothing wrong had happened. In fact he denied to the police that he hit her. They had taken pictures of his hands and they were red from hitting her.

Is this gaslighting?

 

[Philippa]

It doesn't really sound the same as gaslighting Gizmo, although, by him denying that he hit her, it is making her look like she has made it up...but that is more like manipulation rather than gaslighting. The police would be able to see that his hands are red and if there was evidence of her being hit, like photos of her bruises, then they would see it as just normal lying behavior maybe. Gaslighting is usually performed on someone in privacy, to make them feel like they are going crazy, or to make them second guess themselves.

 

[mamachick]

It is creepy for sure. In my opionion, and I am no expert, it is not gaslighting. He beat your daughter, so all are aware of his violent tendency. His writing this note may be his delusional belief that you would be touched, or it may be a his way of letting you know that he is still there even though he cannot contact your daughter.

Generally, my understanding is that the gaslighter lives in the same house with his/her victim. They are not violent. Their goal is to make you question your reality. To do so, they will move your things, hide your things, switch things around, do anything to make you think that what you see, think, feel, smell, or hear, is not real.

Came from a man that dimmed the gas lights, making the wife think she was loosing her vision, that things were dull. When she told him this, he insisted that nothing had changed and that he could see fine.

Example: I know of a case where the husband removed his wife's medication from the daily package and then told her that he saw her take it at lunch time. He removed pills from the bottle and then she ran out before the prescription was due to be filled.She attended a yoga class 3 times a week. He came home from work and put the breakfast dishes back in the sink, moved things around, and took things that belonged to her that she would use daily. Initially, she shared with her husband that she didnt remember taking the meds, that she ran out early, that she couldnt find x y and z. He would say-oh honey, I know that you are under so much stress about A and B, you need to relax more, maybe you need to see a psychiatrist. Then of course she stopped telling him. Then he did things deliberately to make her think that maybe he is having an affair. When she confronted him, he would be very comforting and make her feel even crazier. They goal being, to drive her crazy.

Then he told her sister that he is worried about his wife as she is either loosing her memory or abusing her medication and is concerned for her safety. That she has accused him of having an affair because she overheard him telling his mother "I love you". Then the sister started paying good attention and questioning her sis, of course sis becomes defensive, making her look angry and crazy.

If you have someone living in the house and has access to all of your living conditions/belongings and that does a few of these things on a regular basis, it could really make you feel like you are loosing your mind.

Gizmo, it just doesnt sound like your son in law has the ability to make you guys crazy. I am so glad that you are not dysfunctional and he has no power.

 

[Philippa]

My brother once spent over an hour trying to convince me that the cloth wall hanging in his lounge room, which depicted a chinese red dragon, was actually a photo of Al Capone! He did not give up trying to insist that it was Al Capone, no matter how many times I laughed and told him it was a dragon and that I knew what he was doing. I knew exactly what he was doing, and why, but strangely I found it all very amusing, and played along, as thought it were a joke. I did not for a minute start to believe him, and he could see that his efforts were futile, but he kept going anyway.

Eventually I looked away for just a second, and when I looked back, there was a framed large photograph of Al Capone on the wall where the red dragon had just been! I didn't flinch, but said straight to his face "You just swapped them when my head was turned for a minute...I'm not stupid, I know what you are doing!"

Later, when I got home, I received a phone text from him telling me that it was all a joke...just a joke! Yeah right. I didn't answer. There's nothing you can say to these kinds of people. They aren't even interested in what you have to say...all they care about is their sick twisted games and watching you second guess yourself for their own amusement.

My mother will pick a fight with me and start getting aggro herself, trying to provoke me to yell back at her. I do my best to not give in, but eventually I do and crack it at her, and then she turns around and tells me "Have you taken your medication today...you're acting crazy!"

That's Gaslighting.

 

[BloomInWinter]

Gizmo, that isn't really gaslighting. It's more a combination of other manipulative tactics, such as triangulation, selective forgetting, and empty words. Though he may not be a psychopath, many of the tactics for manipulating others get used by many abusers and unhealthy people.

Some examples include:

"Empty words: The abuser can turn on the charm and tell you exactly what you want to hear: “I love you,” “you’re so special to me,” “you’re so important to me,” etc. The problem is they are just words, backed up by nothing. Filling your need for approval, validation, and reassurance with these empty words gives him incredible power over you.

Denying/ Invalidating reality: Invalidating distorts or undermines the victim’s perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or will not acknowledge reality. For example, if the victim confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, “I never said that,” “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” The same as gaslighting, really, a tactic which is explained below.

Minimizing: The manipulator will tell you you’re making a big deal out of nothing or that you’re “exaggerating” when you confront him with something he’s done.

Withholding: Includes refusing to communicate, refusing to listen, and using emotionally withdrawal as punishment. This is commonly called the “silent treatment.”

Lying: It’s often difficult to know when someone’s lying, but psychopaths are pathological liars who will say anything to get what they want. You may notice they lie so much they can’t keep the details straight. If you question them, they revert to denial.

Lies of omission: A more subtle form of lying where a truth is left out if it’s not convenient.

Gaslighting: An especially frustrating manipulation tactic where you know you heard him say something or saw him do something but when you confront him, he simply denies it. It seems obvious enough but if it’s repeated often, victims can begin to question their “version” of reality. We also want to believe whatever it was didn’t happen, so we may let this absurdity slip by. I forget who said “words are more real than reality,” but that sums it up.

Projecting the Blame: Nothing is ever a psychopath’s fault, and he will always find some crafty way to find a scapegoat.

Diversion and Evasion: When you ask the psychopath a question, instead of answering it he may use diversion (steering the conversation to another topic) or evasion (giving an irrelevant, vague and often rambling response).

Selective forgetting: The manipulator pretends he forgot something important he once said. If you feel the need to use a tape recorder when speaking with someone, covert emotional manipulation is at play. Refusing to take responsibility for his behavior, for the relationship or for your reactions to it.

Attempts to turn the tables and make you look like the abuser: These skilled manipulators have an arsenal of tactics at their disposal, and they will be pushing as many buttons as possible to get you to lose control. They can inflict so much psychological warfare and make you suppress so much emotion that you can be backed into an emotional corner. When this happens, the intense frustration you feel, but can’t express through normal communication, will cause you to react in self-defense. Emotional reactions in self-defense to an abusive situation do not make you an abuser." Source: http://psychopathsandlove.com/covert-emotional-manipulation-tactics/

 

[BloomInWinter]

It's for this reason I support banning texting in certain public places.

I still feel this way, but it's just not practical. Though I would hope that someday enough people get the education and support they need to discern when they are being mistreated.

 

[Meadowsweet]

@BloomInWinter it's late and I may look further at the article when I've slept. But what you've said about manipulation here is so spot on. I kind of feel it should have a place in the domestic violence section, for people trying to understand that. But I'm not sure if it's allowed to be shared there too.