Poll Have You Ever Had Survival Sex?

[Lady of Longbourn]

Not picking on you Zaniara. Just talking about this...

just never crossed the line

I think this has been said a few times in this thread. 'Crossing the line.' I guess I crossed a lot of lines in my life.

Unsure how I feel about that.

More to think about and that's not a bad thing. :tup:

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

Spent the last 6 days deeply confused about this topic. I keep thinking about it.

One of the main problems besides the 'training' of offering sex is the moral conflicts I am feeling. I always believed I am a moral person. I stand by my word...but in the last few days I feel...I don't know.

Wikipedia defines morality as:

..is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong).

We are reading Laozi in English class and I found this passage interesting:

Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.

Which in my view is saying: Morality and justice are man made. An example would be that while America's Declaration Of Independence used the phrase:

All men are created equal...

That was not really the case until only about 70 or 60 years ago when segregation was legal and more people given rights equal to whites. My point being that 'justice' in 1776 with the declaration was equal, but that was not the widely thought opinion, and the justice was not carried out for many years to come. And my other point is this justice is man made. Man made slavery in the first place. And man made what is justice and man made morals.

The fact the I was briefly a prostitute made me less moral? I don't know. Morals are man made...And my morals are mine and other people have different morals. However there are laws...which for the most part reflect what the collective think of as morals. Don't steal, Don't rape, Don't murder...

That I used to be a prostitute is a fact. Money for sex. It's just a word for it. A very strong word but still just a word. A word with many stereotypes, stigma and bad feelings.

But laws in other counties are different from the US. In most of Europe prostitution is allowed as in most of Australia. The laws shifts, the justice shifts. What is accepted shifts.

Don't even get my started on what religion says. That's another day and another pain in my chest...

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

And man made what is justice and man made morals.

Ah, just realized that religion has shaped what man thinks of justice and morals throughout history. But then you get into the topic of if there is a God and blah blah blah...Again, another pain in my chest...

 

[zaniara]

I dont think in terms of morality at all really.. I just know that when I acted like that I hurt my self. To me it was like a form of selfabuse, but then again I didn't have that kind of thinking then; I just tried to survive and was so well groomed. It hadn't made any difference if I had taken the money(I was offered money) or not: maybe I would have felt better accentually if I did; I don't know) because now I did the same thing, just without nothing but maybe shelter in return.

I don't think less of anybody because he/she prostituted him/herself. But I wonder sometimes if those who do was groomed/trained in the same way I did and just is continuing to use them self in the same way the perpetrator did. But if you didn't feel that this thing hurt you that way, you don't. :hug:

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I think in terms of morality because I did easily and would do it again. I do not and still don't see it as a form of abuse because if I felt of it as a type of abuse I would feel fear or helplessness attached to it. I don't so...I don't believe it hurts me it just makes me wonder if I am a good person. Also (and this is a new thought) I wonder if I feel a bit grateful to those men that groomed me in the first place and give me prostitution to so easily fall back on too. The money was very good. I'll have to talk to the therapist about that one.

I don't think less of anybody because he/she prostituted him/herself. But I wonder sometimes if those who do was groomed/trained in the same way I did

I don't think much of the world would agree with you and with that thought we would get into what I was talking about above. I have loss friends for less.

Not asking all this as a question to you Zaniara. I am happy you got me thinking more. I like that. Thanks. :)

 

[zaniara]

I don't think much of the world would agree with you

It's a crazy and in many ways sick world(as I see it) we live in.. (besides all the love and the good things in it) Just didn't understand one thing.. Didn't the grooming hurt you? (You don't have to answer if you don't want to, and forgive me if it is stupid or upsetting question..)

 

[Philippa]

Your post reminded me of when I was sexually assaulted zanaria (though not in a triggering or upsetting way). It reminded me that I actually chose to have sex with the guy, as he had driven me to a place that was free of people, in the night time.

I had seen a large fishing knife with jagged edge under his seat and I decided that instead of running (and possibly having to swim across a rather large lake to the other side to be free) I would just have sex with him, but it was a little different for me, as I gave him instruction to put it in my anus instead, because he did not want to wear a condom, and I did not want to get pregnant to him (or anyone else).

In this way, I actually had some power in the situation. It was to survive as well. Who knows what he would have done if I had not submitted to him. I didn't want to, but I didn't want to get beaten up, and I found out later that he had a reputation for beating up women.

It's helping me to look at it this way, as previously I had been extremely determined to fight any person who tried to force me to have sex, but I found that when it came down to it, I didn't fight, I just let him do what he wanted so I would not be hurt more.

I still think that if you can muster up the anger and fear and use it to create a force that will threaten the rapists sense of power, then it can work to make them give up on trying with you...as most rapists prefer someone who won't fight or who won't be any trouble for them. If you can't muster it up though, due to circumstances or some other reason (I was on anti-depressants at the time, and had trouble feeling anything but depressed and deeply sad) then it's ok to let yourself off the hook.

It's taken me nearly 10 years to come to look at it this way.

 

[Philippa]

I wonder if I feel a bit grateful to those men that groomed me in the first place and give me prostitution to so easily fall back on too. The money was very good. I'll have to talk to the therapist about that one.

This was exactly what I was trying to ask you in my other post ayesha, but it sounded way too terrible to me to dare ask. It's interesting that you would bring it up yourself here. It makes me feel less bad for thinking it.

I'd be interested to hear some of the outcome of your discussion with your therapist about this subject Ayesha, if you'd be willing to share some parts with us here? If not, that's ok.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I am going to share all of it if I can, as much as I remember. Recording it too. :)

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

Does anyone else find that sometimes they lose track of the conversation in therapy? Still more to talk about with him and like always I leave with a lot of questions to think about for the rest of the week and talk about my conclusions next session.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I know my therapist likes this thread because it was one of the first things he asked me about when I sat down. He asked what everyone answering to this thread is looking to hear about? What are they concerned about the most? He admires my forthright about this...

I always remember my therapy sessions in parts so bare with me...

We talked about how he feels like the prostitution should not define me. I should not think of it as I only did that, I should also remember I had another job. I think his point was to see it as a job and not the whole me at the time. If that makes any sense. Also I may have misunderstood him.

Maybe this is where my bias comes in. I don't see it that way. When I first learned I had PTSD it was very difficult for me to say "My name is Ayesha and I have PTSD." It took me a long time to be able to admit that. But when I did it made it easier to deal with because I was facing it. It was even harder to say "I have Bipolar Disorder." That carries more stigma and less understanding so it was harder to face as a person.

So I see me finally being able to say: "My name is Ayesha and I was briefly a prostitute." as a sort of progress. To me that is facing it...at least for me. Of course that's not for everyone. Everyone has different ways of dealing with things. For me just admitting it is half the battle and once I do I will do something about it. Being able to say something like that out loud is hard to do.

We also talked about how I don't find it traumatic. I told him I have spent days thinking about it and if it really bothered me in that way I wouldn't have been able to have amazing sex with Husband last night...three times! It would have been tainted with horrible memories of money and it wasn't. So while I may be trying hard to process it and understand it it does not really hurt me the way a traumatic memory does/can.

 

[Philippa]

It makes perfect sense. I think we should all take that attitude with ANY job. A job doesn't define us, it is just something we do for a certain period of time in a day to pay the rent, bills and buy food...to survive. It isn't US. We are so much more than just a job.