• We are a multilingual website again. Read the notice about this.
  • Understand AI use at MyPTSD: all AI use is explained in our AI help page. AI use is by choice here. It exists if you want it, but does nothing unless you choose to use it.

How Do I Beat Alcohol?

Status
Not open for further replies.
AngelaMarie,

My heart goes out to you in your struggle for wellness. I have chosen to be sober since the event that was so traumatic for my family. It is bringing other struggles to the surface, and I want a clear head to deal with what I am calling the fall-out. I am at that point where I am really thinking a drink would taste good, or a toke would help me relax, but I am committed to staying clear and focused for now. I let the thought come and then go. I guess just one moment at a time. It isn't easy, I know.

Hang in there.

dsantos
 
The first one has no authority... just another website, the second link only talks about withdrawals, which are not in contention.

Big believer here in changing as facts change... but facts have not yet changed on alcohol being addictive vs. people being addicted to alcohol. No change in this fact to date from experts, not some website agreeing with your argument.

If you can provide, factual, credible, evidence, then I am happy to change my stance, but you have not provided such yet on the topic off: alcohol is an addictive behavior vs. your claim, alcohol itself it addictive, which is not fact to date.
 
From the other perspective, can there be a reputable study quoted that says ethyl alcohol is not physically addictive? If not then that is personal opinion also.

Everyone posture in their corners...but if we break out "data" requirements for one corner seems like the other should be standing by with theirs.Searching scholarly works over the past 10 years, only things I find are studies that seem to assume the addictive nature of ethyl alcohol (which is the intoxicating ingredient in all fortified drinks) and point to serotonin increases or dopamine transmitters.

Honestly none of this has little to do with the thread topic. All addictions stem from abuse of some substance. I know people that smoke tobacco intermittently. I have known "recreational" cocaine users. I know people who use alcohol without issues of abuse or dependance.

For myself as whether ethyl alcohol is addictive?, the American Medical Association holds enough credibility:

The AMA reaffirms its policy endorsing the dual classification of alcoholism under both the psychiatric and medical
sections of the International Classification of Diseases. (Res. 22, I-79; Reaffirmed: CLRPD Rep. B, I-89; Reaffirmed:
CLRPD Rep. B, I-90; Reaffirmed by CSA Rep. 14, A-97)
H-30.958
Ethyl Alcohol and Nicotine as Addictive Drugs (Amended Res. 28,
A-91; Reaffirmed by CSA Rep. 14, A-97
 
Ok, lets keep this on topic to the issue of dis-agreeance, which is whether alcoholism is a behavior or an addiction to an element within alcohol itself.

US Government Pubmed - Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse
Link Removed

There is no known cause of alcohol abuse or alcoholism. The reason why some people drink in a responsible manner and never lose control of their lives while others are unable to control their drinking is not clear.

Some people are able to gain control over their alcohol abuse before it progresses to dependence, while others are not. No one knows which heavy drinkers will be able to regain control and which will not, but the amount of alcohol one drinks can influence the likelihood of becoming dependent.
Take note of the US Governments public medical information on alcoholism... it is the person who becomes behaviorally addicted to the substance.

Wikipedia - Alcoholism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism
Long-term alcohol abuse produces physiological changes in the brain such as tolerance and physical dependence.
Again, psychological behavior produces a biological response. Not a chemical within the content that makes a person addicted. It is behavioral drinking, not, have a drink... OMG, I am now addicted nonsense.

Genetic and Environmental Influences on the Development of Alcoholism - 2006
Laboratory of Neurogenetics, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, NIH, Bethesda, Maryland, USA

A good read which consistently marks behavior as the primary predisposition, not any substance itself within alcohol. There are key substances within alcohol that create withdrawals (also known as hang-overs) for binge drinking. Talks about the environmental factors, also covers really what is still to date, quite unknown with genetics, though they have theories, still nothing concrete.

I included this to demonstrate how alcoholism in family due to parents influence children's behavior to alcohol.

See attached PDF

Alcoholism, CRF and Molecular Genetic Allostatis - 2008

Alcoholism, or Substance Dependence on alcohol, is a chronic relapsing disorder characterized by loss of control over intake (compulsive use) and the emergence of a negative emotional state during abstinence. Stress long has been considered a key element in the etiology of alcohol dependence, yet the exact mechanisms by which stress exacerbates and interacts with alcohol dependence have remained elusive.

See attached PDF

Glutamatergic substrates of drug addiction and alcoholism - 2008
Center for Drug and Alcohol Programs, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Medical
University of South Carolina

Drug addiction is defined by several diagnostic criteria set forth by the American Psychiatric Association. These criteria include a loss of control over drug intake, repeated unsuccessful attempts at quitting or reducing drug use, continued drug use despite negative consequences, a reduction in engagement in social, occupational and recreational activities in lieu of drugseeking or self-administration behavior, and the emergence of symptoms of tolerance or withdrawal.

See attached PDF

Alcoholism: A Systems Approach From Molecular Physiology to Addictive Behavior - 2009
Department of Psychopharmacology, Central Institute of Mental Health, University of Heidelberg, Mannheim, Germany

Alcohol-related diseases, especially alcoholism, are the result of cumulative responses to alcohol exposure, the genetic make-up of an individual, and the environmental perturbations over time. This complex gene environment interaction, which has to be seen in a life-span perspective, leads to a large heterogeneity among alcohol-dependent patients, in terms of both the symptom dimensions and the severity of this disorder.

See attached PDF

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I could keep doing this all day. This was purely the first results that popped up in either Google or scholar search for studies and journals, limiting to more current data than older data, just so that cannot be questioned.

As all of the above elude.... alcoholism is a psychological behavior. There are genetic theories, though it is behavioral. I posted the first one to show how environment is applicable to teens in relation to alcoholic parents.

Again, everything you say Dsantos is correct to my knowledge, with the exception of your interpretation of what alcoholism is. It is not due to a chemical component within the substance, even though alcohol is a drug, alcoholism is purely psychologically behavioral response, one that is typically achieved built over a duration before dependence is built within the body, not an instant response to any such specific substance within the content itself.

Here is the diagnosis for alcoholism, being a psychological behavioral diagnosis: [DLMURL]http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subdep.htm[/DLMURL]

Future Directions

I have attached a nice read:

Translating the neuroscience of alcoholism into clinical treatments: From blocking the buzz to curing the blues - 2010

This question is particularly relevant in the area of alcohol addiction. Central stimulants and cocaine have well established, potent and direct effects on DA transmission, and it is therefore not unreasonable to hypothesize that interactions with DA systems may be critical for their addictive properties (Wise and Bozarth, 1985). Opioids also potently modulate DA transmission, although this action is indirect, and it is clear that activation of opioid receptors can be reinforcing both in DA-dependent and DAindependent ways (Amalric and Koob, 1985; Johnson and North, 1992; Spanagel et al., 1992). In contrast, alcohol modulates a wider range of neurochemical systems than perhaps any other addictive drug (Spanagel, 2009). Any of these systems could mediate neuroadaptations leading to an alcohol addicted state, and evidence for a unique role of DA transmission in alcohol addiction is not present.

Purely Informational...

They are finding with neuroscience that alcohol is affecting more areas of the brain than other worse drugs, however; they also state within this journal that results are still inconclusive and unsubstantiated in depth.

In other words, much more testing need take place with alcohol consumption and the affects on the brain, let alone what each area actually does, as a minority of brain function is actually know. So neuroscience is uncovering areas being used or affected, but science has no real idea of the scope any area actually produces.

That is getting off-topic though...

The evidence can continue on and on with this one though...
  • MEDICATION TREATMENT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OFALCOHOLISM (attached)
  • Mechanisms of Neurodegeneration and Regeneration in Alcoholism (attached)
I could keep at this all day, but I do have more pressing work to do. I hope this adequately covers authority information backing the statement, alcoholism is a psychological behavior, not an addiction to a property within the drug itself.
 

Attachments

Crikey, after reading this debate I need a drink.:O_o:

My interpretation is that Anthony is saying thousands drink alcohol and do not become addicted because alcohol is not addictive. Most drink responsibly, some binge drink, some develop problem drinking...all of which is behavioural and can be stopped, not necessarily easily but in the case of problem drinking the addiction is purely psychological.

I do not believe there is sober, drinker, alcoholic. There are many shades of gray in between and it's not even constant in one person for their whole life.

However I think dsantos is saying with a full blown alcoholic the amount of alcohol they have consumed over x amount of time means they have a psychological addiction and a physical addiction to the ethanol - so his saying in that case it's not 'purely' psychological there is also now a physical component.

Whether that's actually right, who knows. I think there is a bit of male posturing and my car is bigger then your car going on but whatever floats your boat:p
 
There is a biological reaction, absolutely... but that is not in debate. A biological reaction (physical) within the brain, only occurs over an extended period of drinking, where abuse or dependence is sustained. Whilst alcohol has negative health consequences, being biological concerns, these do not make alcohol addictive, as it is behavioral for that part. Zero dispute on a biological reaction to alcohol, but that is not the addiction... it affects a minority of drinkings who behaviorally and consistently abuse alcohol, creating a biological dependence to it over years of abuse.

This doesn't come close to making a statement, that alcohol is addictive, for that minority which I do not dispute.

I believe the evidence I have provided is very clear and substantial.
 
If withdrawal doesn't define addiction then what does!?!?!
Addiction is not a physiological problem. It's a psychological one. *IF ONLY* it was a physiological problem. Physiology is easy. Give someone with morphine dependence 'done and their physiological problem is over for a while. But they want morphine because of the way they *FEEL ON IT*. Then there's how they can't stop thinking about it. Because of the way they it makes them *FEEL*.
Most people have very mild withdrawal from cocaine after the initial crash. Maybe depression. There's probably brain structures that malfunction for a while. They are addicted to the way it makes them feel. And there's also habituation happening. But it's nearly all a psychological problem.
cf: people who've been sober for years and then pick up after a psychological stressor. There's nothing *physiological* that makes them pick up again.

Scott
 
I just wanted to answer the question, "How do I beat alcohol?" You beat alcohol one day at a time by staying away from that first drink. If you can't do that, you get help to do it. Best of luck to you!!!
 
Thanks Lionheart.
Unfortunately I can beat it for months at a time, and then for some daft reason get drawn back in. Like I think I have gained control, so can have 'just one drink'. But of course it never works like that.

Still, the frequency of me 'falling off the wagon' is certainly less.
 
This is why abstinence is proven to not be the best policy for alcohol issues, otherwise you tend to go on benders instead of just feeling like a drink, having one as moderation, and feeling tingly, etc, after it because your body isn't used to it, thus you relax and enjoy one or two drinks, not one after another. The faster you retrain your brain to learn how to drink in moderation, the faster you cease cravings and without the complicated withdrawal stigma.
 
This is why abstinence is proven to not be the best policy for alcohol issues, otherwise you tend to go on benders instead of just feeling like a drink, having one as moderation, and feeling tingly, etc, after it because your body isn't used to it, thus you relax and enjoy one or two drinks, not one after another. The faster you retrain your brain to learn how to drink in moderation, the faster you cease cravings and without the complicated withdrawal stigma.
I've found that "Drinking Normally" has never worked for me, but that's just me. Considering the shit I can get myself into stone cold sober, not drinlking doesn't work all that much better either...
Scott
 
This is why abstinence is proven to not be the best policy for alcohol issues, otherwise you tend to go on benders instead of just feeling like a drink, having one as moderation, and feeling tingly, etc, after it because your body isn't used to it, thus you relax and enjoy one or two drinks, not one after another. The faster you retrain your brain to learn how to drink in moderation, the faster you cease cravings and without the complicated withdrawal stigma.
Actually if alcohol is causing regression and exacerbation of symptoms it's probably best to give it a miss. One day at a time. If you want to stop, go to an AA meeting and ask people who have done exactly that themselves. It works for quite a few people.

Scott
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Donation drives

2026 Donation Goal

Goal
$1,800.00
Earned
$910.00
This donation drive ends in
0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds
  50.6%

Trending content

Featured content

Back
Top Bottom