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How Do You Define Emergency?

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I’m not sure if it’s wise of me to enter this convo, it’s messing with my head somewhat. But here I am, cause something @Friday said threw me for a loop.
It’s this:
The issue is backup. As in you rate it, even though you don’t “need” it. Hit yellow? Call. Because backup.
What does backup look like? If I’m, say, fighting self-harm urges or suicidal ideation, what’s the backup gonna be like? If I manage to make myself call a helpline or my T or someone, what’s the helpful thing that’s going to happen?

I sound really dense, but I’m not being a dickhead on purpose, I promise. I really am this far out... ?
 
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what’s the backup gonna be like? If I manage to make myself call a helpline or my T or someone, what’s the helpful thing that’s going to happen?
If you’re calling someone randomly? Like a helpline? No idea what it would look like, or if it would even be helpful, much less backup. Might be. But it’s throwing the dice. Calling your T it would depend on them, and how they operate.

The T I was seeing? I never really knew what he’d say/do, but he had good instincts & read me like a book. Sometimes he had me doubled over laughing about really brutal ugly shit, other times using anger -or putting anger to good use- to chase away the dark, sometimes it was a reality check, or a short sharp jerk on my leash helping me get back in control faster/easier, sometimes he’d just issue me orders to follow, or tease me about shit, or help me brainstorm, or call bullshit. He was just a daaaaayum fine resource to call on. One of those rare people that leave you feeling more competent when you walk away, or hang up the phone, than when you walked in, or rang them up. Centered in yourself, and stronger; rather than dependent on them, he reminded you how to call on yourself. Very, very smoothly. And very openly. “Manipulative bastard, aren’t I?” :sneaky: Damn straight. GREAT guy. Exactly what I needed, when I needed it. I reeeeally wish I could still be working with him, but the lessons stuck. Which is one of those things about having great backup, even when you don’t? The memory sticks / helps.
 
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@Ronin- your thread has had me really thinking and self challenging and realising I have way less of a handle on this than I thought initially.

For example - my sexual assaults don’t fit into any catagory listed ( death) apart from mine ( id serious damage includes PTSD or just ... sexual assault).

I guess I can think of lots of examples of things that I think are ‘time sensitive’ and urgent that might have long term serious impact that are not death but could be prevented with sufficient intervention. But my own? When I ‘should’ have called for help? If I should have? Or just got out? Sigh. It’s not a straightforward question as you think.
another example -
a few years ago I started losing my sight. Intermittently. My dr couldn’t catch it. So he said next time it happened call an ambulance and go to hospital. I did. They told me when I called ‘they were not a taxi’ and I would have to get to hospital some other way. For obvious reason with unreliable sight I suggested it wasn’t a great idea for me to drive.

They asked me to ask a neighbour. I live rurally. I only gave one near neighbour and this was two am- they wouldn’t have been bavk intime to milk .
I don’t know what was the right thing to do there and neither, obviously, did my doctor. Losing my sight was not going to kill me. I wasn’t in pain. It still felt fairly pressing to try and discover why and if it were leading to something more serious.
 
Hey guys, I have some extremely up-to-date info on this puzzling thing. I just called the local healthcare info number and asked where to contact when I’m in a psychiatric tailspin. The nurse answering the phone gave me the contact info. Then, encouraged by this convo, I asked what constitutes a psychiatric emergency. She said it’s an emergency if I can’t deal with my symptoms without help and I can’t wait till a scheduled appointment. I, being all brave and responsible, asked what ”not being able to deal” meant. She said it looks different in different people. That it’s about feeling you can / can’t cope. I was like, huh?

How bout this, then? My first thought: I know people who get rigor mortis before they feel they can’t cope.
 
Update: some more professional opinions.
I called, as the healthcare info lady told me to, my GP’s office. I told the nurse answering the phone that I was in no imminent danger right now, I was just calling for future reference. She asked some questions regarding my current situation, and when she got to the ”you’re not having any self-destructive thoughts, are you?” and I replied that I am, the convo changed. She became clearly worried and wanted to know if I could keep myself safe till next morning. I had to repeat multiple times that I could, and she told me to go to the A+E if I felt I couldn’t. And she made me promise I’d call the GP’s office again tomorrow at 8am.

So wow, this all feels really over the top. I mean, this is just regular mh bs. But apparently the nurse took it rather seriously. I told her I’m not very good at knowing what an emergency is, so she told me to call the healthcare info number if my shape gets any worse. The peeps answering the phone will assess my situation.

So, my 2 cents.
 
@Freemartin, that was just awesome run for more info & right back with it. Hell yeah. Definitely not in the wrong conversation, glad you joined in and that you also reached out in person.

And yeah. I think we back to 'our as sufferers baseline / green / regular BS, is clear red of everyone else.'

My T I ran it past had an useful Q, tldr what will help you dial down the reactions from within *your* life context, and how if at all can we (treatment team / she was speaking for all of them) support that process? :sneaky: her face inserted.

So tossing that out there in case it's useful for someone else?

I meantime (different situations / busy few days) figured I respond different to emergencies by how much they're MH affecting VS MH originating.

Or, if it's something sparked it and the situation trigger is real & risks are. Vs real just for me, as response to the past.

& Longer posts to the traffic lights system that I still need to figure if to post or not. :bag:
 
A mental health emergency is different to a lay emergency.

An ordinary emergency is an unsafe situation requiring immediate action.

A mental health emergency is going to look much different, depending on the person, and how much insight they have into their own mental health issues.

Using a generic standard, if you don't feel like you've got good insight yet: are you likely to harm yourself or someone else, or do significant damage to property, or your reputation? If yes - get help. That's either a reliable support person, your T, or the nearest ED.

Plus: seek increasingly higher levels of help until you're safe. Ie. don't speak to Joe next door about how things are super tough today, get no particularly helpful reply, then decide "Well, sought help for my emergency, guess that's the whole 'help' thing done with". You keep seeking help until you're safe.

When you've done the rounds of your own mental health crisis's a few times, and you know what they look like, where they go, how long they take to play out, what's required to stop, and what may happen if it doesn't stop? Then your MH emergency is going to be quite unique.

For me, it's still a WIP figuring out when my SH has become an emergency, so I still rely heavily on communication with my T to know when things need intervention from the outside.

With my SI on the other hand? I know it back to front. There's a point when I know, "I can't keep myself alive for the next 24 hours". That's pretty specific. Because MH 'emergencies' are necessarily going to be different from one person to the next.

That's time for the red level on my safety plan (safety plans: super helpful, because you've nutted all this stuff out while you're not in an actual emergency, like checking how to use a life vest before you get in the leaky boat in the middle of the ocean).

And because I know what I will and won't do when I hit a SI emergency? I have personalised my safety plan to something that I will do when I hit that spot and it will result in me getting safe every time.

A good question that I used to get asked in the first few years of my own MH breakdown was, "Can you guarantee your safety", often until the next therapy appointment. Yes/No = Emergency/Manageable
 
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Yeah... the guarantee question is one where I differ so much, lol.

As in isn't all that helpful. As it asks a commitment of me that I may either be unsure about & overloaded by (and breaking promises? Ups my emergency. Even as a thought & potential. I can get through however bad, as long as I'm not breaking my word I've given of free will, not because coerced into.)

OR it asks me to commit to something I'm past giving all f*cks for, at the time / and the only reasons I still act as if minding I'm honoring my promises.

Handing me tools to be safe, or fight me on it & Lemme know I *f*cking will.* give f*cks, because usual code applies even in this clusterf*ck? Whole another game. :ninja: (Or, shit working for my whole amount of emergencies... exception being murder of mine. Where I need to be told breaking is honoring them, action on responsible parties will wait. // For as long as I need to get off that Do *something. Even if the last thing. Owe it to them.* insanity.)
 
I think what an emergency is depends on your personal baseline. Mine would raise concearns if I called somewhere like freemartin did. Self destructive thoughts are part of my baseline and a pleasant surprise if I go through a day without them. So not an emergency.

If I'm impaired ( drunk, drugged etc) then it's time to panic. Because acting on it will not be far behind. So far. And I've chosen drinking in general to be an emergency. I've been down that road a few times and once I start in earnest there's only one way this will end.
 
OR it asks me to commit to something I'm past giving all f*cks for, at the time / and the only reasons I still act as if minding I'm honoring my promises.
I'm big on keeping promises, which is why it was helpful to me. For some of the reasons you've said it wouldn't be helpful.

Past giving f*cks? Then you give them the guarantee. Because if you don't give a fk, but they do? Then what's stopping you giving that promise?

They want another 24 hours? If Iegit don't care by that point, then sure. Have your 24 hours. If it means something important to the person asking (and IME it usually means a whole lot to them), then meh, have 24 hours.

Do that enough times and you get to know how much it costs each time. The tiny nuances between "that 24 hours was actually no big deal after all" (cool, so when I'm like that, it's less of an emergency), and when "that 24 hours of keeping that fking promise was absolute hell" (righteo - you have a clear example of when it's an emergency).

I spend a lot of time living in the headspace of "I don't personally matter to myself much, but my obligations to other people, and making sure they are suffering as little as possible". Makes that guarantee really significant.

Every time I gave that guarantee, I then had to figure out some damn way of keeping it, which meant planning out how the hell I was gonna keep that promise. So, planning how to survive the day. Which is where I learnt skills to do that which work for me. I didn't learn them by accident, or some therapist teaching me "This is how you survive 24 hours when you're in crisis". I learned it by making a promise I then had to keep, and living through the experience of having to make that work. And now I know, because I've done it successfully so many times.

Which is why I don't want to give anyone a guarantee.

Which is exactly why it was so helpful.

But if it's not helpful for you, maybe the measurement could still be. Can I keep myself safe for the next 24 hours? If you look at that question and think "err, well, that's kind of a long time...", then if you're not already in an emergency? You're certainly at the point where you should be seeking external support.

I think one of the keys to all this is the negotiating and compromising you start doing in your head. Safe means safe. Not "safe by your standard of care for you". If you're starting to go down the path of "this wouldn't be safe for anyone else, but it's safe enough for me" - you're setting your recovery standards for yourself too low maybe.

Practicing living like you matter, even though you don't necessarily believe it. Because you aren't going to believe it, until you start behaving like it's true. Like giving someone else a promise is hard, turns your head upside down, because you're pretending like you matter on their behalf, even though you don't believe it.

Of course you don't believe it yet - you've never lived as though it might be true.

It is true. You do matter.
And that's why that guarantee is such a mindf*ck at first. It contradicts the distorted belief that this matters, that your life matters. It feels like manipulative BS and why the hell would I promise that and put myself through that?

Maybe you're putting yourself through the experience of mattering to someone else. That's a pretty uncomfortable idea.

That's part of recovery. You already matter to other people. It's not a comfortable idea. It makes life hard and confronting. But it's still true. Confronting it is painful, but sometimes critically important.

Rant coming from complete personal issues projection over!
 
Rant coming from complete personal issues projection over!

And she says she can't throw shoes at crap :D I think you ace both shoes and ropes.

Imma Chrisduck a while with buts though (yeaah, did those crazy lot in early teens trying to sift through heaps of contradicting info) - One of those buts is quite resolute it don't matter / others & goals do. Like one of those things that f*ck with our head so stellar - people I grok. Minding me for mesake wastes time. It's fun to do joyous things and all that but not the same level. Deepdown I don't matter *is* safe.

It allows me to put myself aside and not be a ruminating daisy and do my fricking job.

Not just the beaten the f*ck out of me somewhens belief. But one that *is* useful as it removes major distractions from the equation.

.... idek if this even makes sense, words wise.

Hence the huge difficulty I have with accepting help & debts & uselessness & people, weirdly, deciding to not leave me rot in wherever fun I just have. It don't make much sense.
 
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