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sun seeker
Diamond Member
Well, Friday, from what I gather, life hasn't been giving you a whole lot of help in your effort to stabilize, over the last couple of years. I'd give you credit for trying.
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How Long Did You Spend On Stabilization?
- Post starter sun seeker
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- #14
sun seeker
Diamond Member
And do they call this trauma therapy? What modality are they using with you?
Mine did some stabilisation work mainly helping me ground myself when I was struggling but mostly she's gone very carefully, at a pace where I can cope. It's been very slow work but while I've definitely felt stretched and at times very distressed, I've been able to either regulate myself or ask her for additional time.
I too struggle with trust and attachment - building the relationship and letting it gradually deepen has been "the work" in therapy, simply being in an intimate relationship has felt torturous at times. Her way of dealing with that has been to be present and available, while not forcing me to talk about anything I'm not ready to. She's let me bring up my trauma in my own time and if I do being something up she'll let me decide when we revisit it. Reading that, she sounds very passive but in reality she's far from it - we have a very strong relationship with lots of challenge but she's very skilled in letting me lead and helping me get to a place where I trust her enough.
So, no clear 3 stage process as in we're explicitly doing X, but looking back I can clearly see stabilisation work, trauma processing and forward planning. I seem to move between them depending on what we're working on and I can feel the need next session for stabilisation again. One thing she's very clear about is making sure I'm ok before leaving session - she won't let me leave in a distressed or dissociated state.
I too struggle with trust and attachment - building the relationship and letting it gradually deepen has been "the work" in therapy, simply being in an intimate relationship has felt torturous at times. Her way of dealing with that has been to be present and available, while not forcing me to talk about anything I'm not ready to. She's let me bring up my trauma in my own time and if I do being something up she'll let me decide when we revisit it. Reading that, she sounds very passive but in reality she's far from it - we have a very strong relationship with lots of challenge but she's very skilled in letting me lead and helping me get to a place where I trust her enough.
So, no clear 3 stage process as in we're explicitly doing X, but looking back I can clearly see stabilisation work, trauma processing and forward planning. I seem to move between them depending on what we're working on and I can feel the need next session for stabilisation again. One thing she's very clear about is making sure I'm ok before leaving session - she won't let me leave in a distressed or dissociated state.
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- #16
sun seeker
Diamond Member
Do I ever understand that. But then, leaving feels just as impossible. People. Sometimes I feel like everyone else took lessons on how to be in relationships, and I missed them.
Mine does. Frequently. I've been clear that I'm not letting that happen anymore.
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- #17
sun seeker
Diamond Member
Hmm... only I'm not sure what to do in those sessions where I am so activated through the whole thing that there never is any sense of calm to come back to.
Unless I staged a sit-in and refused to leave until I feel calmer. That would be interesting. ;)
Unless I staged a sit-in and refused to leave until I feel calmer. That would be interesting. ;)
It's the thing I appreciated most about mine in the early stages - I was incredibly distressed in every session for about 6 months and she would always make sure I was ok to leave. If she hadn't, I doubt I would have gone back.
I would just tell him you need him to help you settle before you leave and agree a way of ending (breathing, a meditation, chatting) that helps. After particularly difficult sessions my T and I would spend 10 mins or so just talking about stuff - what I was doing for Christmas, her family stuff, a book we'd both read etc but just normal conversation to let us both decompress a bit. She'd be open that she needed that time with me too to settle after the session, she gives a lot of herself in her work and I know at times she's been very impacted by what I've brought - not to where she can't work with me but I know she's felt it too - so we both would come back to normality together. Thinking about it now that one thing built more trust and connection than anything else we've worked on.
I would just tell him you need him to help you settle before you leave and agree a way of ending (breathing, a meditation, chatting) that helps. After particularly difficult sessions my T and I would spend 10 mins or so just talking about stuff - what I was doing for Christmas, her family stuff, a book we'd both read etc but just normal conversation to let us both decompress a bit. She'd be open that she needed that time with me too to settle after the session, she gives a lot of herself in her work and I know at times she's been very impacted by what I've brought - not to where she can't work with me but I know she's felt it too - so we both would come back to normality together. Thinking about it now that one thing built more trust and connection than anything else we've worked on.
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- #19
Sideways
VIP Member
My current pdoc spends about the last 5 mins on grounding, but sometimes asks me to do a bit more before I drive myself home.
Originally I was diagnosed with Bipolar II and did a couple of years of cbt on the side while I saw my pdoc seperately. That was to help with the depression and anxiety (which it did, a lot) and run by a psychologist.
Similar story once I got diagnosed with c-ptsd: I started psychotherapy but saw a psychologist on the side for dbt. There was a dbt 6 month course offered, but it was strict on the "no other tandem therapy" rule, and I was too impatient for that! I think I made a good choice for me there, because building trust seems to take me a long time.
The dbt was tye major help with learning to manage my emotions without turning straight to panic and self-harm or suicide. But there wasn't a magical 'moment' when I was "therapy ready", so much as while my DBT skills became more natural, the therapy naturally got more intense because I could cope with more.
It was my first psychotherapist that taught me grounding, but otherwise my coping skills I've learned from psychologists rather than pdocs. Certainly with the cht that seems to be a bit part of how a lot of psychologists operate.
Cbt and dbt are both something that you could potentially do on the side, depending on whether you end up taking a break from your current T? Here in Aus the public and private hospitals both offer their own courses that you can enrol in, or you can see a psychologist just for that purpose. Alternatively, some members here seem to be able to get on pretty well just with the textbooks that are now available, so that you could do it cheaply in your own time if you have a bit of self-discipline. That would mean you could keep on with your T but be improving your coping skills gradually at the same time..?
Originally I was diagnosed with Bipolar II and did a couple of years of cbt on the side while I saw my pdoc seperately. That was to help with the depression and anxiety (which it did, a lot) and run by a psychologist.
Similar story once I got diagnosed with c-ptsd: I started psychotherapy but saw a psychologist on the side for dbt. There was a dbt 6 month course offered, but it was strict on the "no other tandem therapy" rule, and I was too impatient for that! I think I made a good choice for me there, because building trust seems to take me a long time.
The dbt was tye major help with learning to manage my emotions without turning straight to panic and self-harm or suicide. But there wasn't a magical 'moment' when I was "therapy ready", so much as while my DBT skills became more natural, the therapy naturally got more intense because I could cope with more.
It was my first psychotherapist that taught me grounding, but otherwise my coping skills I've learned from psychologists rather than pdocs. Certainly with the cht that seems to be a bit part of how a lot of psychologists operate.
Cbt and dbt are both something that you could potentially do on the side, depending on whether you end up taking a break from your current T? Here in Aus the public and private hospitals both offer their own courses that you can enrol in, or you can see a psychologist just for that purpose. Alternatively, some members here seem to be able to get on pretty well just with the textbooks that are now available, so that you could do it cheaply in your own time if you have a bit of self-discipline. That would mean you could keep on with your T but be improving your coping skills gradually at the same time..?
BlueOrange
Diamond Member
Starting from first encounter with current therapist:
2 years getting stable
1 year being stable
1 year getting stable
1 year being stable
1 year getting stable
3 years mostly stable
1 year almost stable
1 year stable
1 year slow decline
1 year unable to stabilize
2 EMDR sessions
3 months improvement brings us to right now
EMDR required everything I had learned up to that point.
My diagnosis is DID, I have no recollection of a 'time before'. I would anticipate that people traumatized in adulthood would typically require less preparation (from what I've heard).
2 years getting stable
1 year being stable
1 year getting stable
1 year being stable
1 year getting stable
3 years mostly stable
1 year almost stable
1 year stable
1 year slow decline
1 year unable to stabilize
2 EMDR sessions
3 months improvement brings us to right now
EMDR required everything I had learned up to that point.
My diagnosis is DID, I have no recollection of a 'time before'. I would anticipate that people traumatized in adulthood would typically require less preparation (from what I've heard).
BlueOrange
Diamond Member
Sounds like me over the course of the last year. All the tricks I had learned stopped working. I was executing them fine, but they stopped delivering benefits.
Agreed eventually with therapist that I had mostly finished my stage 2 work (overcoming the fear of the facts of the experience) and was starting to confront stage 3 (overcoming the fear of the emotions of the experience).
So, we got me stable (but very low) and started EMDR. Right now, I'm in my best overall mental health ever, but am physically wrecked by all the self-neglect and the hyperactive adrenals.
Hope that helps.
Late to the party, but I've done very little stabilisation work with any therapist, and like you @sun seeker I think that has caused huge problems. I'm working on it by myself now, hoping that eventually I'll get back into therapy. Even if I don't, after a few weeks of sustained effort I'm aware that my reactions are less volatile, and that I am more able to give myself time off when I need it. I think that increase in stability is so valuable, it possibly outweighs any benefits I'd get from therapy at the moment.
Whichever route you take, you need to be prepared to try lots of things to find out which work for you, and to try different approaches and modifications. For example, breathing is supposed to be one of the best ways to calm and soothe, and is good because you alway s have it with you. It has taken me years to discover a way that works for me, that doesn't lead me into the hyperventilation I'm trying to avoid. I found I needed a visual reminder of the pattern of breathing, and needed to focus on the out breaths. Now I'm practicing daily, and gradually building up the time. Initially I had to persuade myself to breathe for two minutes. All of this is alien to us, and just finding a way to self soothe and stabilise can stir up all sorts of past echoes. I really wish I had someone to work with. So maybe if you and your T can work exclusively on doing something that is solely about making you feel better it would help you both?
that sounds like a clear signal that it is time to stop and do nothing but self care.
There are two ways ahead that I can see. You could do as @Ragdoll Circus suggests and look outside your sessions, which might well be effective if you have the concentration and stamina to work at it alone. It is working for me, now, but I know in the past I couldn't have put aside my self loathing enough to do it. Or you could tell you T that this is the area you really want to work on with him. If you and he can work effectively together on this it might be good way to re-build with him.
Whichever route you take, you need to be prepared to try lots of things to find out which work for you, and to try different approaches and modifications. For example, breathing is supposed to be one of the best ways to calm and soothe, and is good because you alway s have it with you. It has taken me years to discover a way that works for me, that doesn't lead me into the hyperventilation I'm trying to avoid. I found I needed a visual reminder of the pattern of breathing, and needed to focus on the out breaths. Now I'm practicing daily, and gradually building up the time. Initially I had to persuade myself to breathe for two minutes. All of this is alien to us, and just finding a way to self soothe and stabilise can stir up all sorts of past echoes. I really wish I had someone to work with. So maybe if you and your T can work exclusively on doing something that is solely about making you feel better it would help you both?
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- #23
sun seeker
Diamond Member
So one thing I can see myself doing is getting my hands on a DBT workbook. They didn't have it for a long time in the local bookstore but I saw last time I was there that they are carrying it again. I didn't get it because I was stressed over money after a dentist appointment. But it seems like it would be a worthwhile investment.
@Sandstone, you make a good point about whether or not I can work on my own. I was thinking yesterday about all the things I could do for self-care and to have a more varied set of resources, and came to the conclusion that I really can't. I'm too depressed to stay with any of them on a regular basis and those that require interacting with people would take too much out of me. My therapist keeps saying I need more resources besides him, which puts me in a Catch-22 situation because it's the stress in my relationship with him that is destabilizing me so much that I really can't connect with other resources. Which tells me I need a lot more help than I'm getting, which I've known for a long time but am not sure how to make that happen.
I guess one thing I could do is make an appointment to see the local mental health worker. We've talked on the phone. I really didn't click well with the usual one, but she's on some kind of leave and the replacement seems nice enough. I'm one of those people who bristle when told I have a mental illness, because even though I have a whole bunch of diagnoses, they're all due to the same trauma. But whatever. She might have some ideas.
It seems I'm in a bit of a strange situation. While it's true that we jumped right into the trauma and it was a bit much, what is causing the destabilization at the moment is all about my relationship with my therapist (and of course, all the transference that brings up, but there are things that would be problems nonetheless). Which would make it a great opportunity to work on stabilizing in the context of how I relate to others. It's just confusing because there is so much countertransference going on that I'm never sure when he is acting as a therapist and being there for me, and when what he says is coming from his own issues.
@Sandstone, you make a good point about whether or not I can work on my own. I was thinking yesterday about all the things I could do for self-care and to have a more varied set of resources, and came to the conclusion that I really can't. I'm too depressed to stay with any of them on a regular basis and those that require interacting with people would take too much out of me. My therapist keeps saying I need more resources besides him, which puts me in a Catch-22 situation because it's the stress in my relationship with him that is destabilizing me so much that I really can't connect with other resources. Which tells me I need a lot more help than I'm getting, which I've known for a long time but am not sure how to make that happen.
I guess one thing I could do is make an appointment to see the local mental health worker. We've talked on the phone. I really didn't click well with the usual one, but she's on some kind of leave and the replacement seems nice enough. I'm one of those people who bristle when told I have a mental illness, because even though I have a whole bunch of diagnoses, they're all due to the same trauma. But whatever. She might have some ideas.
It seems I'm in a bit of a strange situation. While it's true that we jumped right into the trauma and it was a bit much, what is causing the destabilization at the moment is all about my relationship with my therapist (and of course, all the transference that brings up, but there are things that would be problems nonetheless). Which would make it a great opportunity to work on stabilizing in the context of how I relate to others. It's just confusing because there is so much countertransference going on that I'm never sure when he is acting as a therapist and being there for me, and when what he says is coming from his own issues.
scout86
VIP Member
Let's see......I've been seeing my T for 3 years, I think,so "3 years". I've never actually thought of myself as 'not stable' since I've managed on my own my whole adult life. But maybe not as well as I thought I was or as well as I could have if things had been different.
I'm not good at talking about stuff and won't bring it up voluntarily. So, the first session, he asked why I was there (had already mentioned PTSD in an email). I vaguely explained. He asked about 'trauma' and said something like "You know, a serious car accident or something." Which led me to launch into a couple of stories that I think of as 'funny stories' but actually turn out to meet the official definition of 'trauma'. I think he assumed we must be dealing with the truck crash (nope, that's just a funny story about I time I could have been killed and wasn't). He explained, in general terms, how he 'usually' does things. Somewhere in my brain, the "High Alert" alarm went off and that 'part' of my brain decided none of that was going to work, not now, not EVER! (It was probably wrong when it thought that.) One of the things he uses is hypnosis. I'm guessing that he began to have second thoughts right about the time he found out there was no WAY I could sit quietly in the room with my eyes shut. (We've never tried that again.) A few weeks later, he again asked why I'd come in to begin with. I said something to the effect that I was really tired of the endless 'voices' in my head suggesting suicide..... That got a reaction out of him. LOL I wasn't expecting him to get that serious that fast. From there on, we've spent a lot of time talking about a lot of stuff unrelated to trauma. Or, sort of unrelated, because it turns out my family of origin was more of a problem than I realized and we spent a lot of time talking about that. (Which was great, because there was a lot going on.)
A month or so ago, there was a crime in this area that hit a little close to home in a way and I'd spent most of the day prior to my session thinking about it, and stuff that had happened to me, and maybe rather vividly remembering some stuff.... I hadn't been in his office 5 minutes before he brought up the news story and wondered how I was feeling about it. He actually said I was the first person he thought of when he heard the story. That freaked me out all by itself. Like "I cross his mind when I'm not HERE? WTH??" Anyway, we actually talked about some of the stuff I'd prefer not to talk about. Then something related came up during the week and we had more reason to talk around the edges of it. Last week, we talked about politics and what his Halloween costume is going to be this year. (I'm voting for Albert Einstein.)
I've come to realize that we ALWAYS spend the last part of the session talking about something 'safe'. I'm often the last appointment of the day and the sessions just end when the conversation ends. I hadn't thought about this until recently. He never sends me out the door without changing the subject and talking about something else long enough that I've switched gears. I might, and usually do, think of something I hadn't thought of on the way home. Most of the time I send him an email about it. The thing is, he pretty much NEVER tells me what he's doing. And I pretty much never ask. I really think, if I knew what he was up to, that 'resistant' part of my brain would slam the door shut. That wouldn't be very productive, so I'm pretending the door is still slammed shut. Or at least I'm sure I can shut it if I have to. So, we don't talk about grounding, or triggers, or modalities, or anything like that. Sometimes, because what he does isn't totally unlike training a horse, I catch a glimpse of what he's actually doing. If that happens, it's fine and also kind of interesting
As far as that first session goes, there was probably a different way to do that that wouldn't have set things off quite like that did. But I didn't give him much to go on. One of the biggest things I've learned through working with him is that it's possible for things to go a bit haywire but then get reassessed and turned around. I hadn't had a whole lot of experience with that in the past. So, even the minor wrecks have been useful.
I'm not good at talking about stuff and won't bring it up voluntarily. So, the first session, he asked why I was there (had already mentioned PTSD in an email). I vaguely explained. He asked about 'trauma' and said something like "You know, a serious car accident or something." Which led me to launch into a couple of stories that I think of as 'funny stories' but actually turn out to meet the official definition of 'trauma'. I think he assumed we must be dealing with the truck crash (nope, that's just a funny story about I time I could have been killed and wasn't). He explained, in general terms, how he 'usually' does things. Somewhere in my brain, the "High Alert" alarm went off and that 'part' of my brain decided none of that was going to work, not now, not EVER! (It was probably wrong when it thought that.) One of the things he uses is hypnosis. I'm guessing that he began to have second thoughts right about the time he found out there was no WAY I could sit quietly in the room with my eyes shut. (We've never tried that again.) A few weeks later, he again asked why I'd come in to begin with. I said something to the effect that I was really tired of the endless 'voices' in my head suggesting suicide..... That got a reaction out of him. LOL I wasn't expecting him to get that serious that fast. From there on, we've spent a lot of time talking about a lot of stuff unrelated to trauma. Or, sort of unrelated, because it turns out my family of origin was more of a problem than I realized and we spent a lot of time talking about that. (Which was great, because there was a lot going on.)
A month or so ago, there was a crime in this area that hit a little close to home in a way and I'd spent most of the day prior to my session thinking about it, and stuff that had happened to me, and maybe rather vividly remembering some stuff.... I hadn't been in his office 5 minutes before he brought up the news story and wondered how I was feeling about it. He actually said I was the first person he thought of when he heard the story. That freaked me out all by itself. Like "I cross his mind when I'm not HERE? WTH??" Anyway, we actually talked about some of the stuff I'd prefer not to talk about. Then something related came up during the week and we had more reason to talk around the edges of it. Last week, we talked about politics and what his Halloween costume is going to be this year. (I'm voting for Albert Einstein.)
I've come to realize that we ALWAYS spend the last part of the session talking about something 'safe'. I'm often the last appointment of the day and the sessions just end when the conversation ends. I hadn't thought about this until recently. He never sends me out the door without changing the subject and talking about something else long enough that I've switched gears. I might, and usually do, think of something I hadn't thought of on the way home. Most of the time I send him an email about it. The thing is, he pretty much NEVER tells me what he's doing. And I pretty much never ask. I really think, if I knew what he was up to, that 'resistant' part of my brain would slam the door shut. That wouldn't be very productive, so I'm pretending the door is still slammed shut. Or at least I'm sure I can shut it if I have to. So, we don't talk about grounding, or triggers, or modalities, or anything like that. Sometimes, because what he does isn't totally unlike training a horse, I catch a glimpse of what he's actually doing. If that happens, it's fine and also kind of interesting
As far as that first session goes, there was probably a different way to do that that wouldn't have set things off quite like that did. But I didn't give him much to go on. One of the biggest things I've learned through working with him is that it's possible for things to go a bit haywire but then get reassessed and turned around. I hadn't had a whole lot of experience with that in the past. So, even the minor wrecks have been useful.
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