Other I am not human!

[Sideways]

The downside of having a higher IQ is the lack of tact and diplomacy.

I seem to do pretty well most of the time.

 

[Cyberluddite]

I seem to do pretty well most of the time.

This is true, whereas I excel in sarcasm. So I thought I'd look up some information about high-IQ, Asperger's/HFA (high functioning autism) when I could sit down at my laptop (instead of the smartphone I've been commenting with so far) because @Multitudes said something interesting. He has Asperger's -- yet I don't.

Tesla and Einstein were prodigies in their eventual specialties, and it's important to note that high intelligence is often mistaken for Asperger's and autism. So I looked up the differences between them:

Dead Link Removed Source: (Boso, M. et. al. Functional Neurology, vol. XXIV; should be available in print form)

Summary: Neurological, psychological, cognitive and genetic differences between autistic people and non-autistic people; also a brief history of Asperger and why Glenn Gould inspired the need to screen artists and musicians for the trait.

"Child Prodigies and Autism Spectrum Disorder" (Source: Camarata, S., PhD. Psychology Today, 2016 Apr 1; available in print edition)

Summary: The difference between genius and folks like Sheldon Cooper.

"The Normal Distribution Curve and its Applications" (Source: SUNY Cortland)

Summary: Additional information regarding how IQ brackets work, as well as percentiles of people who score in them.

"Why Sarcastic People are More Successful" (Source: Stillman, J., Inc. 2015 Nov 16)

Summary: Based on group research by Harvard, Columbia, and Insead, sarcasm really is a sign of high intelligence... and it's healthy.

P.S. -- I don't know if I'm a prodigy, you'd have to ask Tesla. Your patience on this TL;DR is greatly appreciated, and I hope it helps in the future.

Apologies...

"Child Prodigies and Autism Spectrum Disorder" by Psychology Today

"The Normal Distribution Curve and its Application" by SUNY Cortland

 

[EveHarrington]

How did this devolve into a discussion about IQ?!?

I think the OP was talking about isolation stemming from having aspergers if I’m correct.

 

[Multitudes]

I think the OP was talking about isolation stemming from having aspergers if I’m correct.

Apologies - I didn't just mean Aspergers, or Autism, but all pain, all trauma.

I could just have posed the question, "Does anyone else feel like an alien?", but, lacking any context, it seemed rather inane to me. So I backed it up with a slice of my own experience and of how I came, at a young age, to feel and rationalise my non-Humanness.

While my AS is certainly an issue, what makes it an order of magnitude worse is the Anxiety that increases over time as I try to integrate with Humans, the increasing discouragement and sense of worthlessness of constant rejection and the very real sense of alienation.
Chuck in a healthy dose of PTSD from living with the constant stress of just getting through each day of a whole lifetime, facing constant reminders of all that I can never do, and here's a big old alien meltdown waiting to happen.

I guess I'm a passable writer, but I always struggle with the balance of how much information to include and how I'm putting it across to the reader - I aimed for an engaging question without also inadvertently sounding like a victim, or being too nonchalant, or too blunt/offensive, considering my audience.
When I wrote, "The separation and isolation others can never know", I wasn't referring to others on this forum, rather those who don't see, have not experienced, and so cannot understand what it is to live with trauma in any form.

Again, my apologies to everyone that I didn't make myself clearer.


A brief comment on the discussion of IQ upthread - as a proven Master of the Misconstrued myself, I understood the tone of @Cyberluddite's post to be purely informative, though I could see how it might be taken otherwise, especially as this tends to be quite a sensitive subject prone to causing offence.
Some excellent information in those links I'd love to discuss sometime, on another thread, perhaps.

@Multitudes said something interesting. He has Asperger's -- yet I don't.

Here's something I think is a common and inaccurate assumption made of Aspies - just like aversion to touch, or inability to make eye contact. While differing neurology equates with different abilities, not all Aspies are highly intelligent, and not all highly intelligent people are Aspies.
There's a popular saying within the Autistic community:

"When you've met one person with Autism.. you've met one person with Autism". :)

 

[Hope4Now]

:alien:
I relate to feeling alien (alienated, that is).
It is horrible to live in a world you don't feel like you belong in.
I'm not on the spectrum (but I have deep experience with people who are). It makes so many things harder.

I had trauma starting in utero and continuing after birth. My first real attachment figure was my dog. I thought I was a dog for a long time (from babyhood until maybe age 3 or 4 when my mother found a way :cry: to teach me otherwise). When I explained this to my therapist and psychiatrist one time, both had similar responses--"Oh, yes, a lot of children like to pretend they're ___." And I had to say, "No, this wasn't pretending. I really thought I was a dog, just without the right kind of body." That kind of sums up my existence in this world. I know I'm not a dog. I "know" I am a human being who has a rightful place in this world. But I feel, nearly always, other. This is different from depersonalization (at least in the way I experience it).

I do often wonder whether most people feel alien (or would if they took the time to think about it). On some really deep level, we're all alienated. Many philosophers, literary writers, religious scholars, and spiritual people have been talking about this human condition for a long time. But knowing this and coping with the day-to-day feeling apart from humanity are different experiences. I think you're talking more about the day-to-day. I wish I had an answer to alleviate the discouragement and feelings of worthlessness, other than the gaggingly mundane advice to keep looking for connection, being open to it, and you will find moments of it. It requires both an open mind and an open heart--the latter of which is terrifying for us traumatized folk.

Marginalia: I think the side-trail conversation about IQ was interesting. My professional career was in education, and I have a great deal of experience with IQ assessments, and other theories of intelligence (Gardner who many people are familiar with, and my favorite, Robert Sternberg). I don't believe that IQ tests are "intelligence" tests. They are excellent predictors of how a kid without big issues in their lives will perform in school. They are also very good indicators about how some aspects of brain functions work. That said, when a person has crazy-high scores on IQ tests, it IS an indicator that their brains work differently from other people. The word "normal" is not a value judgement, just a reference to the "normal curve" of assessment. When a person falls outside the normal curve on WISC or WAIS scores, it is an indication that their brain works a bit differently. I have crazy-high scores, but I know I am not more intelligent than people who have "normal" scores. However, it does explain to me somewhat, one aspect of what makes me feel so "other." I just had a neuropsych eval complete with an IQ test. It was a fascinating experience, and I was able to observe myself in my thinking process. And it does look a lot different from the many dozens of assessments I have administered to others, or observed. So, IQ--for me--is helpful in that way.

Oh, and @Multitudes you ARE a very GOOD (not just passable) writer!

 

[Cyberluddite]

So in short, there's really nothing wrong with you, @Multitudes . Like @Iriseen said... you're human-plus.

Humans are generally hard-wired for conformity -- it's an evolution-based survival mechanism that helps ensure the "tribe" survives and procreates, not the usual mindset of everyone turning into cookie-cutter clones (thankfully, because that would be incredibly boring.) One of the attributes of higher levels of intelligence is individualism, the ability to separate you from your self (ego).

Alienation is the price we pay for being individuals in a conformist society, and PTSD is how brains cope with having to coexist with that conformist society. It is what it is, but on the upside, you're not alone. Get a few of you together, and the shenanigans become epic. :tup: All seriousness aside, the problems you're facing in trying to associate with your peers isn't your problem to deal with -- it's theirs.

It may be lonely at the top, but seeing the sunrise at the top of Mt. Everest is worth walking that path.

 

[Multitudes]

:alien:
I relate to feeling alien (alienated, that is)..

Ah! The clinicians pat response to the expected meaning of a clients statement - I know the tone well, indeed - could make a decent list!


You've made a fair distinction between the <instinctive requirement> of connection for basic survival (Nature), and the <experiential realisation> of finding ones-self isolated due to interactive stressors (Nurture).

I may be inclined to disagree with your placement and put neurodivergents within the Nature category, as they tend to differ by a number of <genetic> markers and so have little option but to be who their neurology makes them.

Similarly, <trauma>-induced behavior would fall on the Nurture side as 'learned'.. excepting predisposition, of course.

Your take on this, for the sake of clarifying my understanding, would be welcome.


"Gaggingly mundane advice", chuckled at and appreciated.. though the issue remains of just where the hell Aliens go to socialise in this Spiral Arm, backwater neighbourhood! ;)


(BTW, Your use of the term, "Open heart", is interesting - are you aware of any Auties who <don't> 'Wear their heart on their sleeve', regardless of <all> hurt they've experienced? :D)

(BTW 2. Must come back to the whole IQ thing - it is fascinating!)

Ps: Bloody forgot to make <>'s into italics - sorry folks

 

[Cyberluddite]

...though the issue remains of just where the hell Aliens go to socialise in this Spiral Arm, backwater neighbourhood! ;)

"I know a bar out in Maaaars, where they drive spaceships instead of caaaars..."

Thank you all, you've been a wonderful audience. I'll be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress!

 

[Multitudes]

So in short, there's really nothing wrong with you, @Multitudes . Like @Iriseen said... you're human-plus.
.

Daaayum! That nail is gonna have a headache.. ('Hit the nail on the head'? Never mind.. moving on. :O_o:)

Get a few of you together, and the shenanigans become epic. :tup:

There are some phrases that always make me grin - 'Autistic community', 'Group of Aspies', 'Autism Awareness'..

I can't help it - these are such non sequiturs! :D

I mean, if Anyone knows Auties and Aspies, they really know that they need time alone to recharge, many of them can't stand physical contact, they loathe attention, and none can bear crowds.. so how would you ever find a group of them? :nailbiting:

Interestingly, we find it virtually impossible to conform, so, Everest - here I come! :D

 

[mumstheword]

Daaayum! That nail is gonna have a headache.. ('Hit the nail on the head'? Never mind.. moving on. :...

To answer; my Autie son has found a group of "them". He is not high or low functioning, but somewhere in the middle. His disability day program providers came up with a way to get Aspie and Autie guys together, they call it E-space, they get together in the one space and get electronic with their tech of choice. My Autie son is quite social, in a fashion, as is my Aspie father, who loves to come up here to Nth nsw, from his home in Melbourne.

I don't think I am on the spectrum but do suffer from the high IQ thing, as does my youngest. I need lots of, mind-stimulating and creative time, but, down time from people.

I've always had the socially awkward and most-people-aversion thing. Got into performance arts as a way to bridge the gap, it really helps, but I struggle with the attention it can bring.
As for the alien thing, yes! Alienated from most, but found a soul mate at 37.

 

[Multitudes]

How many Aspies does it take to change a lightbulb?

None of them, 'cos they can't be in the same room together! :arghh;

 

[Multitudes]

Oookay, I meant that to come straight after my last dumb comment, sorry! :facepalm:

It's fantastic that you've found a social group for your son - that is really.. quite a tear jerker for me, actually, sitting here right now.

I volunteer for an Autism/Aspergers charity, hosting coffee mornings so that people like me can get together, socialise a little. We get adults, parents with kids on the Spectrum, anyone and everyone who might be interested.
I love it - co-ordinating advice, making everyone feel welcome.. it really is a challenge for my sensory issues, but I hate the thought of anyone being alone because of this, when I can help.

Erm, it isn't my place to say, but I'm going to.. because it's really hard not to - you sound very much like you have some traits of an Aspie woman.. my humble apologies if I'm being inappropriate!