I Don't Know What To Do

[Silver.]

When someone is involuntarily committed (and they do have this in Canada), it is not their choice if they want to go or not. They get put there. Especially if they hear he is suicidal.
I am hearing what you are telling me, that he doesn't want to. But I am also hearing that he is spiraling downwards and suicidal. Sometimes the best love, is tough love, that is why we are telling you that this is what should be done.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Introducing Ibogaine and trying to be his therapist isnt going to help.

Im not trying to judge or be snappy, im concerned here!

This is my problem. I need solutions outside the medical community. If you're not willing to help me with that then don't bother posting.

Whoa, whats up with the snappiness back? Ibogaine isnt a soultion, at all. Maybe something else is that you may find out in this thread but i dont feel good about Ibogaine, at all!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

When someone is involuntarily committed (and they do have this in Canada), it is not their choice if they want to go or not.

Amen and agreed!

ETA: And its the safest!

 

[Dreamstatic]

This might be a simple solution if I didn't live in a country with terrible health care availability and in a part of that country with abysmal health care. This is not the USA. I'm from the USA. I know what a normal hospital or clinic is like. This is like a third world country here where I live. You are lucky to get physical treatment. People die here while on waiting lists to have their cancer removed. Mental health care here consists of a 4 month wait to get to see a psychiatrist, and spending 5 minutes in the room and walking out with a prescription. No follow up, no real consultation. Definitely nobody who can deal with the trust issues surrounding complex PTSD.

 

[Silver.]

There are mental health emergency services all across Canada. I am not sure which province you are in, but I did a quick google search and found a plethora of services across Canada for emergency mental health care. I hope you will reconsider and at least look.
Take Care

 

[Dreamstatic]

It's not that they don't have forced admittance to a hospital here. It's that they have no beds available in the hospital. I know an older lady who has severe depression and developing other issues like dementia and the inability to feed herself who went to the doctor for three weeks saying she wanted to be hospitalized. It wasn't until her husband threatened the doctor that he scrounged up a bed for her after a few days.

 

[Dreamstatic]

I live 6 hours drive from the capital of my province which is a town of 250,000. I don't live in an average part of Canada with normal services.

 

[Dreamstatic]

Sorry I'm Not trying to be snappy. I said I'm open to any other solutions. I'm scared about the Ibogaine thing. I would rather have some other potential solution if one exists. Admitting someone with the trust issues he has against his will into an institution that is one of the triggers of his panic by the only person he trusts in the world, so that he can be force fed drugs, doesn't sound like a great solution to me.

 

[joeylittle]

@Dreamstatic - would he consider going back onto the cymbalta? I know you said he was on it for pain; it's also a very effective anti-depressant. Part of the downward spiral may be a result of discontinuing it (even though he wasn't on it for his mental health).

None of us are doctors, we can't really give great medical advice - I can give cymbalta a personal thumbs-up, it was my primary anti-depressant for a number of years and worked well.

But it's going to be hard to do anything if he's not willing, and that sounds like it's a big part of the challenge. How would he feel about traveling for a hospital stay? I know that things can be really hard to access in Canada, but I'm wondering if a strong referral from anyone in your local system could get him a place in a trauma treatment facility before the end of the calendar year. When he says he's afraid he won't make it through the winter, is it with a sense that he wants help, or is it him being fatalistic?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I agree about traveling to a hospital, going to doctor after doctor until one gives a strong referal for inpatient. He is spriling downwards into the psychosis-like world. Ant- psycotic medications such as seriquel which im on at a low dose as the low doses of anti-psycotic is prescribed for many issues but at higher doses helps psychosis (including those caused by PTSD), schizophrenia etc. So that could help.

Dont try to be his Dr due to the lack of Drs. Will Ibogaine help? I dont know, im not a Dr and never been on it but something that's a
psychedelic drug that triggers hallucinations given to someone that is already talking to himself and/or talking to people whom arent there doesnt sound like a solution to me and sounds to me like it will make it worse.

There are MANY things that have been proven to help different issues people have with PTSD but that doesnt mean its the right thing to give them.

A side effect, per the orginal link I posted, to Ibogaine is death. That would seal the deal for me and id be looking elsewhere!

Admitting someone with the trust issues he has against his will into an institution that is one of the triggers of his panic by the only person he trusts in the world, so that he can be force fed drugs, doesn't sound like a great solution to me.

I have severe trust issues, terrified of being locked up unable to get out, issues with being touched, issues with doctors in general, and I am suicidal, but with all of those issues, if I were starting to go downhill into psychosis or if i was suicidal and couldnt get myself off of that ledge and needed to be admitted to save my life I would voluntarly admitt myself and if I were admitted involuntarly, i would not be mad at that family member.

Regardless of how its done, I would need to be admitted.

There is no question about this, he needs to be admitted with Drs prescibing whatever he needs to get him more stable. He doesnt have a choice here. Id go to Dr after Dr for a referal and/or call 911 as cops should take him to the nearest inpatient hospital to determine if he needs to be admitted.

Do anything but google drugs that arent used for any medical purposes to give him. I understand the helplessness here but please go to a Dr instead.

 

[Dreamstatic]

I have talked to him about going back on Cymbalta. He doesn't realize how much it did help him, yes it didn't eliminate his symptoms but made them easier to deal with. But he is in such a bad state now that he won't consider going to a doctor to refill his prescription. And I don't want him to go on it and then have to come off it again in a short time, that's a bad, bad thing to do with this drug.

I looked up the references to death and Ibogaine. The research said that in nearly all of the reported cases, there were major pre existing health issues that contributed, usually multiple issues, including drug abuse or withdrawal concomitant. Plus the dosage these patients were givien is in almost all of the cases was far higher than what he is going to take, some 6 or 7 times the dosage. Another factor is that in some of these reports they took the Iboga root, in whole powdered form. This has other constituents that have properties that are not fully understood but are psychoactive, and dosage also is not very reliable when you are taking a natural product like that. He is going to take the pure isolated Ibogaine HCl for this reason. It's a one time dose and basically it seems to reboot the brain and allow it to process traumatic memories, which they think is why it helps with ptsd. Since nobody here seems to have much experience with this, I'll keep this thread updated. I know it's risky. But the alternative for him even if he would willingly go to a doctor is years and years of long term medications... And I know him, I know at this point he won't stick with being dependent on doctors even if he feels better. Give it a year, two years, and he would give it up again and start all this hell over. This is twice now and it's far worse now than it was the last time he went off drugs. What would happen the third time? So I'm on board for whatever he is willing to try. When he says he won't make it through the winter, I think he's saying that he won't be able to continue to function even at the level he is at. He repairs electronics now to make a little money (my mother handling the customer service, he can't take customer interaction at all) so he's working and making money for the first time in his life, and he's on the verge of giving all that up and literally selling our house and moving to the middle of the wilderness.

On another note, from his research he thinks that marijuana might help with the nightmares. His daily stress level is completely linked to the number of nightmares he had the night before. So that's on the radar too, if anyone has any experience with that. He's never smoked a joint in his life so he has no idea what to expect.

Again, as far as admitting him goes. It would be the end of his life because he would never trust again. It would be the end of our marriage. It doesn't matter how much it might help him in the short term. I know what I'm talking about here. When he turns on someone that's the end of that relationship permanently. And he would never, ever stick with treatment that someone forced on him, simply on principle. Even if it was done in his best interests. It doesn't matter. It would be more humane to kill him than to forcibly admit him because of what I know about who he is and what he values. Doing something like that would remove the last little flicker of hope that he has for having a life beyond this illness. I guarantee it.

 

[joeylittle]

He is going to take the pure isolated Ibogaine HCl for this reason. It's a one time dose and basically it seems to reboot the brain and allow it to process traumatic memories, which they think is why it helps with ptsd. Since nobody here seems to have much experience with this, I'll keep this thread updated

I am fairly certain that this 'reboot' is done in conjunction with someone who will facilitate the trauma processing. In other words, there's a therapist, or healer...a someone who is there. That's the protocol with MDMA, anyway. The drug is used to 'cushion' the brain, and then the memories can be addressed and processed (using whatever method the clinician uses) with little to no emotional strain.

I just want to help you be clear on that point - so, it's not 'you do the drug and then you can talk about your memories, whenever'. It's, you use the drug to enable you to talk about your memories in a focused period of time.

Even if it was done in his best interests. It doesn't matter. It would be more humane to kill him than to forcibly admit him because of what I know about who he is and what he values. Doing something like that would remove the last little flicker of hope that he has for having a life beyond this illness. I guarantee it.

You know your husband, and we don't. So I can't tell you that you are wrong.

But I will be blunt, and tell you that this cannot be guaranteed If he were admitted and received some solid, dedicated treatment, he might gain some ground. And in that case, it wouldn't have been more humane to have killed him.

When absolute push comes to absolute shove, you are going to need to know where you stand. I can barely imagine what it's like to be in your position. But don't buy into his messaging about what he can and cannot tolerate, because that's what it sounds like this is - it's his distorted thinking, telling him that he could never survive an inpatient stay.

Why is it that he can get excited about the Ibogaine, and nothing else? He is still capable of visualizing a future without the struggle in it - whether he would admit that or not. He's looking into pot, looking into radical drug therapy - so he does have hope.

He also is looking for the quick answer. I think, somehow, it's going to be a big step for him to figure out how to accept that it's not always going to go at the same speed. Some things can go quick, others go slow. But first, he's got to get stabilized.

But the alternative for him even if he would willingly go to a doctor is years and years of long term medications.

Not necessarily. Maybe. Has he had any trauma therapy? As in EMDR, or Exposure (PE), or Trauma-Focused CBT?