I feel like my issues are too complex to recover from

[EveHarrington]

I have only one request of you. Read the whole post. Even if I manage to really piss you off, just...

That nighttime panic pill makes me WAKE UP SMILING!

I tried to tell him it’s great.

I mean who doesn’t want to wake up smiling?

It’s not even a psych med. which really, makes it 1000x better.

 

[Abstract]

Hi @jameson Although I am not you and no one else is I do get the horribleness of being essentially frozen and I know others here do too. Its enough to make you want to do something extreme.

If you put aside the frozenness for a minute and let yourself free think of what might shift things just one tiny bit for you - potentially - then what do your instincts tell you could do that for you? We often have an instinct if we are able to listen to it. I find its unhelpful for me to think about anything further than the end of my shoe when frozen. End of shoe first. I don't need to think of anything beyond that.

The worst times I have had have definitely involved internal conflict and being blocked at any point by that. What is your internal dialogue at the moment? Is it going with this, so to speak, or is there a lot of judgement?

 

[Deleted member 39476]

I go into an altered state of consciousness. Not sure what your definition of fainting vs. passing out is, so maybe if you could, clarify that question for me and I will be please to answer it in the best way I know how.

That's dissociating, literal fainting is a physiological thing that causes you to totally lose consciousness. I'm in Manitoba. The addictions I look at as symptoms not problems in their own right. They all disappear immediately when I feel even marginally better, so I'm not worried about them as an individual thing.

Are you still in therapy?

The thing is (and I totally thought this was garbage before I tried therapy) having the right person working with you makes an enormous difference. And I really question the wisdom of your T jumping right into trauma processing as fast as you did.

I still go every 2 weeks. I have thought about switching, but I've looked through the online list of therapists in my city, and most of them look awful compared to mine. I can't go with a female therapist because of my terrible relationship with my mother, I refuse to go to some 25 year old woman with a half shaved pink dyed hairstyle, and I refuse to go to a lot of these really creepy looking middle aged dudes who obviously have issues of their own. I really like my therapist and trust him, it just hasn't been going well. We are still actively trying to figure out what approach is right, its not like we are just trying the same thing over and over again. The only reason we tried processing so soon was to see what would come up because we didn't know what was really going on, we stopped very quickly.

You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon. Baby steps.

I hate this attitude on a really fundamental attitude and disagree with almost everything you said. I have felt what its like to be living normally before, you don't have to build your life up an inch at a time, its not a constant uphill battle, its not baby steps. The whole point of using exercise, breathing, drugs, meditation, etc for therapeutic reasons is that they make you feel better in the short term so you can keep going in the long term. They all make me feel worse, so they have no value to me. There's no intrinsic value to doing something that makes me more stressed out and then stopping just before I collapse do to severe stress overload, there's no point. All of this logic you have seems to be based on the worldview that these things aren't supposed to make you feel better in the short term, but that's exactly what they're supposed to do, they don't really have any other value than that. You keep assuming that for me it is like a pretty wall wall and that once I clear it these things will suddenly have lots of benefit, you have no reason to assume that, that's not how they're supposed to work. Therapy is baby steps, I understand this, I understand that in therapy I could be one big hurdle away from feeling better, but I don't believing trying to grind out things that make me feel like shit is going to accomplish anything.

I think the cancer comparison is very valid. Sure it can be interpreted as disrespectful to some cancer patients, but I've seen people in geriatrics for serious conditions. It isn't uncommon at all for them to not want to live anymore once they realize there will never be able to go back to being happy and living a normal life. That's my outlook if it so happened that I could not make a big recovery from this illness. I have no interest in spending the rest of my life trying to tolerate feeling this bad, or maybe taking drugs in the long term to reduce how bad I feel but still feel bad, I want to feel good, and I want to feel good naturally. I haven't given up hope yet, though it seems increasingly unlikely that I will make a good recovery, so I will keep going. If I looked into the future and found out that 10 years from now I don't feel better, I would be gone within a month.

I get that this all sounds very defensive, because well it is, but I hate hate hate hate people trying to tell me that "you just have to keep fighting the good fight", the only reason the struggle is worth it is because of the hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, take that away and the struggle is worthless to me.

 

[ms spock]

After about a year I eventually got to the real root of my issues, as deep as it gets, some extremely fundamental internal conflict between two traumatized parts of self. It's been straight downhill ever since I got to that point, after trying to confront and deal with that internal conflict, my dissociation became 24/7 chronic instead of reactive, my anxiety level went up to a 9/10 and never went back down again, I developed severe issues with executive control to the point where extremely basic tasks are nearly impossible now, and in general have declined in every possible area.

I so feel for you.

I can't process anything because I dissociate.

I am challenged in this arena as well.

I can't ground because the feelings are way too overwhelming so grounding makes me dissociate harder,

Oh hell I FEEL for you! This is such a hard one to get around. I am doing so very, very, very slowly.

I can't do anything CBT or DBT because I lost almost all of my executive control,

I am struggling with this as well.

I can't use tolerance or relaxation exercises due to no executive control and an extremely severe level of stress all the time,

I can't do Mindfulness anymore - it sucks.

... it seems like I am stuck in a very unpleasant catch 22 that prevents any progress in any way.

Gosh I have been here for decades but I am able to have real goals now, rather than just teeny tiny goals

At this point it seems like the issues are so complex that they all prevent any of each other from being resolved.

***nods***

Has anyone here managed to dig themselves out of this kind of ultra catch 22?

Slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly!

 

[Deleted member 39476]

Hi @jameson Although I am not you and no one else is I do get the horribleness of be...

My inner dialogue is totally shot right now, which is basically why I'm here. When I try to think "what would make me feel better, would what cause a shift" there's two things. First one that comes to mind if falling in love again, because that's what made me feel better last time, second is resolving my internal turmoil so that I can love myself properly. If I could just show my inner child love unconditionally, I would feel a million times better, but I have this super brutal inner conflict, where my inner child is effectively a monster tormenting me 24/7/365, if I look inside myself I can't see anything but a monster. I am terrified of the monster, the monster is terrified of me, the monster and I have totally different wants and needs, and we cannot cooperate on literally anything, so I am frozen indefinitely. Every time I try to speak and show love to the monster in therapy, so that it can let down its defense, and we can lift the burden off of its shoulders that is a lifetime of trauma, it ends up more hurt than before, more scared than before, then it becomes more monstrous than before, the burden gets heavier, trust gets weaker, my life gets worse.

I have absolutely no idea what to do about this and I've been trying to resolve this specific thing in therapy for almost 9 straight months.

 

[Abstract]

Although I haven't had that same experience I definitely have found my progress was blocked the most and in the most painful way when I was stuck in terrible internal battle. The only thing that helped me start shifting just a tiny bit was actually working on some sense of acceptance of being in that space. I don't mean the type of acceptance that says there is no want of change. Rather the type that just makes a space and tries to look at what is happening as fact rather than entering endlessly into the turmoil of the battle that gets nowhere. I don't know if that makes sense. It is a place of allowing all that battle to be there at the same time. Not adding extra fuel onto it. I needed to leave that there and then try to sneak around the sides of it until it didn't take over completely. I'm sure there was a better way of approaching things but I never found anything else.

I am sorry that you and this internal part of you are stuck tormenting each other. It sounds horrible. You are both just really hurt and I hope you can find the space at some point. It sounds like your therapist really needs to concentrate on finding some neutral space for you at present. Things done't stay in one place eternally. The truth is we don't need to believe they will or even can change for that to happen. Thank goodness.

 

[ms spock]

I'm not interested in maintenance, I'm interested in recovery. I'm still young, 21, and I have nothing. I can't work, I can't maintain relationships, I have very little of a social life, I sit inside all day browsing the internet. If I was married with kids and had a stable career I might consider some maintenance strategies like long term medication just to keep my life together, but I have literally nothing to keep together. If I can't make a proper recovery I'm not interested in living, I don't want to spend the next 50 years of my life battling mental illness constantly while on meds, to me it just is not worth it.

To get recovery you have to have a foundation of maintenance, just like a house needs a foundation for walls to be built on. So just take one of these things and do 3 x 15 seconds per day - it is a start. Then build slowly.

You are not alone in what you are going through. I know how crappy that the life that you are living now. It is horrendous, but you are not alone with your struggles or the almost seemingly endless Catch 22s that you are dealing with. It is not easy.

I think you do have a form of suicidal ideation and you are working yourself up for a suicide attempt because you are a "hopeless" case, there are a lot of distorted cognitions in your posts. David Burns' book would be of great assistance for you. He addresses the distorted thinking that is behind suicidal ideation or feeling you are a "hopeless" case.

You may be on meds for 12 months or 24 months and then not need them after that. You are doing the distorted cognitions of fortune telling, which is justifying not following the options that you do have.

I have had to chip away, chip away and chip away, and then things gradually improve.

Don't sabotage yourself by doing too much. You are at a couple of minutes per day, you might need to only do 15 seconds of the things that you decide to do, in order to not trigger herself.

I get the whole monster thing attacking inside and you do need to gradually build up certain skills to bit by bit to manage it. It has not been easy for me. I have had to do heaps of moving sideways here, and sideways there. 10 seconds of something - looking at a picture in nature, or documentaries on nature, or something else that interests.

I had to do research to find out how certain strategies, and then further strategies to tailor make my own recovery processes.

So some of the things that I have worked on include:
do stuff that is aimed at kids - that breaks it right down. e.g sit like a frog
Going to trivia so be social with people
Volunteering
Teaching courses
Joining groups to do exercise
Joining groups to try out all different types of meditation/mindfulness
Mindfulness (my own particular brand which is guided or based on movement, sitting still with my head, not a safe idea) Don't do the 8 week course it is dangerous for people in your states. But there are many ways to come at it sideways. I had to do a lot of research to find ways that would work for me.
Self Compassion look at Kristin Neff's website you can do all her exercises or listen to her guided audio and down load it for free.
For DBT you can look at dbtself help and look at instant mindfulness which has visual meditations set to music, they are good for people who struggle with our states of mind and stuckness by visually engaging us and having music in the background so our minds can ruminate.
There is the Perth Mindfulness Centre, and there are lots of meditations on it that can be listened to for free.
I started to learn a musical instrument.

There is research that you can do I have a stack of book titles I can give you.
Mindful Self-Compassion Workbook: A Proven Way to Accept Yourself, Build Inner Strength, and Thrive by Kristin Neff.

Youtube watch David Burns, Bessel Der Kolk, Laurence Heller, Kristin Neff, Tara Brach, any of the Mindfulness people - the goal is not to do the Mindfulness but to listen to start to write down the odd idea that you actually can potentially use.
I listened and relistened to "The Mindful Way Through Depression" audiobook hundreds of times. It resonated with me. I had it on whilst I slept so if I woke up in panic I could hear the audiobook which assisted in know it was a different times. Find audiobooks that interest you - even fiction ones, but there are heaps of non fiction ones. So The Mindful Way Through Anxiety etc

Exercise I have done
Swimming
Walking (groups, individually, in nature)
Tai Chi
yoga,
The Alexander Technique - you can do get it free online as well - down load the audio.
QiGong
Shibashi
Body boarding

Just find a something that you can do for one minute per day, and then do that every day, and build up slowly. Write out a routine, and keep at it.

There are many, many, many online resources - so if you are spending most of your time online look for something for 1 minute per day looking for something that could potentially assist you.

Watch comedies, read books, distract, go to be online on a computer at a local library and/or Internet cafe so at least you can change your location.

Get some medication for your sleep, you can't make rational choices, and/or get your levels of distress down unless you get at least some sleep.

So just take one of these things and do 3 x 15 seconds per day - it is a start.

 

[EveHarrington]

I think the problem is that you’re lumping your inner child in with all of those exiles. NO WONDER YOU ARE STUCK! Your inner child is young and innocent and fun. That bad stuff that’s carried over from your childhood? Those are exiles. You really need to be treating your inner child separate from the exiles. And all the bad stuff isn’t lumped together, either. Each negative feeling/experience is a separate exile that needs to be addressed by itself. I’m not surprised that you’re in this state. You’ve got a therapist who is trying to do parts work and failing miserably. Look up IFST. It’s good stuff.

 

[ms spock]

Sleeping poorly to the point where my therapist recommended I talk to my doctor about some drug that helps control panic while sleeping, just so I can at least get decent rest, haven't tried it yet though.

So that could be one of your one or two things that you start doing each day to help yourself. Forget the rest, just do this.

 

[Gs172003]

the amount of blatant ignorance in posts like this is kind of ridiculous, I specifically stated I'm not...

Ok if you're not willing to try anything else.... Exercise. Start working out. Burn off the danged tension. If you haven't done it before start with walking, then add some body weight workouts you can find on YouTube. Anything to get the body moving as not only a distraction but a way to release all of that "stuff". Just a suggestion.

Are you still in therapy? I ask because my first reaction to your first post was that you might be bett...

This.

My therapist before I quit was the only person that got me to be able to see past today. Before her, tomorrow, next week, next month, didn't exist. I plain out couldn't see it. ( Does that make sense?) Somehow she broke through that and for the first time in YEARS I didn't think today was it. Sounds small but it's actually miraculous.

 

[ninja]

You may find you are not (metaphorically) in the tunnel you think you are in. It's possible through the struggle you will find a light that will lead you down a path you would have never imagined at the beginning, because you couldn't. It's possible you are not in an isolated tunnel, but an underground system of tunnels, you'll go down various paths to see if there might be a way out... and the tunnel system may be continually expanding as you come across new possibilities and new perspectives on what is happening inside. One of those might be redefining who the players are within you and what they are thinking and feeling.

Do you like animals? Do you like puzzles? What do you like to do to keep yourself intellectually challenged and entertained? I know this may sound ridiculous in the situation you are in but taking care of basic needs sometimes includes this aspect too. Perhaps you are going on a very long and complex process which has no fixed end result, and perhaps the abilities you once had will disappear for some undetermined amount of time. They will come back stronger. It's just what happens. You are strong. It is clear, to me.

Is it possible the monster symbolizes terror, and is not rather your inner child? I hate to get too close to this because I don't want to say something which will make it worse for you.

There are ways through this, but there may not be ways that will remotely seem feasible until you've walked through them. I suspect you already know this but sometimes we can't judge whether a thing will be helpful or not based upon how it feels to us in the moment. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you seem like someone who may normally be able to mentally work things out to determine whether a particular solution (or plan, or idea, or...) is worth chasing after at all, but healing doesn't necessarily work that way. I understand you have been at this for awhile and I am sorry it takes so long.

There are a lot of ideas in this thread, for ways to try to get movement started. What happens if one of these ideas (perhaps one that is least offensive) actually does start to work within a few months time? If it doesn't? Perhaps the critical voice inside might suggest you've wasted a few months going down a dead end path. Was it actually a dead end though? Perhaps not. Maybe you've learned some things along the way about yourself and the nature of the feelings inside that will lead you down a new path that is more likely to help you out (bearing in mind what from the previous attempt didn't work). It is highly individual.

With respect. Take great care. I care about you, also.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

I don't mean the type of acceptance that says there is no want of change. Rather the type that just makes a space and tries to look at what is happening as fact rather than entering endlessly into the turmoil of the battle that gets nowhere.

I take it when I can get it, but normally I don't even realize how long and how futile the battle has been until I calm down much later. When immersed in the conflict there is nothing else, immersed in a conflict for long enough and you forget at some point that its unusual.

I think the problem is that you’re lumping your inner child in with all of those exiles. NO WONDER YOU ARE STUCK! Your inner child is young and innocent and fun.

The thing is I am not allowed to communicate with my inner child because its always being protected by exiles. I used to be able to see but not interact with the true inner child, over time the protective parts got more defensive and blocked me from seeing him, or seeing anyone for that matter, all I see now when I look inside is one big monster that's hiding everything. I can barely even communicate with the monster part, it more or less just runs me.

So that could be one of your one or two things that you start doing each day to help yourself. Forget the rest, just do this.

I probably will, sucks big time always starting days off badly because I start every day waking up from a nightmare.

To get recovery you have to have a foundation of maintenanceGet some medication for your sleep, you can't make rational choices, and/or get your levels of distress down unless you get at least some sleep.

So just take one of these things and do 3 x 15 seconds per day - it is a start.

I feel like I don't even have a foundation to build a foundation on right now frankly. I've made all sorts of very manageable committments before, do breathing exercises for a couple minutes twice a day, do some stretches on an exercise ball once a day for a few minutes, do a few pushups a day, try to meditate for 10 minutes a day, super basic, easy, manageable and beneficial stuff if in a mindset even slightler calmer than mine. I also used to write down my feelings on a daily basis, sometimes write down my dreams. Without fail, every single time, I look at something that reminds me of what I was supposed to do, for example looking at the exercise ball or the journal, and realize I haven't done it for weeks, sometimes I avoid it, sometimes I straight up totally forget.

I would love to say something like "You know you're right, I will try this, 15 seconds 3 times a day, easy peasy", but I can't/won't do it, I've tried dozens of times with dozens of things, most of which were recommended to me directly by a professional, and I am never able to follow through with it. I have still never even attempted yoga, I was recommended yoga and given a dvd a long time ago, the closest I ever got to doing it was rolling out a mat and still not doing it. I just don't have control.

Is it possible the monster symbolizes terror, and is not rather your inner child? I hate to get too close to this because I don't want to say something which will make it worse for you.

The monster symbolizes the people I grew up around. It's not really my inner child but its also the youngest part, apparently being ageless. There is no real way through this without learning to love and be kind to the monster until it isn't a monster anymore, but how does one come to peace with a demon that tries its hardest to constantly destroy you? How does said demon come to peace with someone it feels is trying to destroy it? God only knows apparently.