I hate myself and everyone else should too.

[Chris-duck]

Eh yeah. So I hate myself. I know that other people don't, they say they don't and act like they don't and I believe that, but I think I've tricked them somehow into thinking I'm something I'm not. I know it's not entirely rational because I've not -done- anything to justify the level of hatred I have for myself. So I kinda am like "Yup, just inherently bad, my actions don't matter!" Which obviously isn't -right-. It frustrates me that I think it, but also frustrates me that other people don't see it, cos it just makes me think I've tricked them.

So yeah, I know -why- I think it, have a bunch of evidence to disprove it, still think it pretty hard. So looking for ideas on how to change that. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Hoping you get some good insights into this from peeps :hug:

I think it's 100% untrue, but I got no convincing arguments as to why... Or at least, all my convincing arguments don't seem to convince you :)

 

[Mach123]

I have a terrible time with other people and I'm just sort of compulsively rude? It's just I feel so ugly towards other people because I feel threatened I guess. I have 2 handicapped people I go around with I hide behind them. That way I'm an"caregiver" so people leave me alone. Really though I hardly interact with people at all. I feel lucky about that. When my wife is with me it's easy. Even the new neighbors I'm a little worried. I have to be careful not to let myself get the idea they don't like me even if they don't. Smile. Keep smiling. It's like I hate me so I assume others feel the same? I think I'm a better at not dwelling on stuff like that. It's still there though.

 

[LuckiLee]

I bet you can come up with more reasons why people would like you than not like you. And hate is a strong word put it where it belongs. On your abusers. Give it to them! XO

 

[Lucycat]

So I hate myself.

I don't hate you. I have no reason to. Why do you hate yourself? To say you are "bad" is not an answer. In your opinion what makes a person bad? What would make a person good?

 

[somerandomguy]

I've wanted to write something here, because I really, really think that you're a terrific person, but I don't know what to say. I want to say something helpful, but I don't know what that is.

So I thought about how much I used to hate myself and how that changed. First of all, everyone here kept telling me that I was a good person. I didn't believe it, but I let myself read what everyone said and started to wonder what it would mean to me if I WAS actually a good person. I decided that it would mean that I really wouldn't be able to hate myself anymore.

At the same time, my T encouraged me to do some inner child work. I used to really hate my inner child so much. Now, this is where having a kid came in handy. I could never hate my son. Never, ever, ever. I wondered what the difference was between him and me at the same age, and the answer was Not much.

@Chris-duck, I know that's not really going to help you because you have carved out a special dispensation for yourself. You'd never hate your kids, but you at the same age? You just hate that kid. You think you deserve everything that happened to you because that kid was horrible and deserved everything that happened to her.

I wonder, though, what about you as a baby? Do you hate yourself as a tiny baby? Was that baby a bad baby who deserved to be screamed at and abused?

 

[Friday]

I know it's not entirely rational because I've not -done- anything to justify the level of hatred I have for myself. So I kinda am like "Yup, just inherently bad, my actions don't matter!"

Leaving aside other people’s agency for a moment... what do you hate about yourself?

If you can make a list you might notice trends/patterns that connect in certain ways to this/that/the other. Which, IME, is a really strong toe hold for either cutting the ties that bind them, or working through them.

As an example, if a trend isn’t hating yourself but your life? (And I’ve known a lot of people who can’t differentiate between the two, because they’re the ones living their lives), a solution emerges almost immediately... changing your life. Meanwhile, a trend of hating what’s happened in your life, begs a redirect. When things go terribly wrong a natural reaction is to look for something/someone to blame. In the absence of that, one often blames one’s self. Which is just as embittering as hating anyone else, but with no break from it. Learning to differentiate between hating what’s happened instead of hating one’s self? May seem subtle but it’s huge.

You have to be a little bit careful about making and I Hate List, in much the same way as making an I’m Tired list. Because either can be used to wallow in misery and punishment, which is even more useless than watching paint dry. There’s quite enough pain and despair in the world without inviting it for tea and begging it to stay the summer. But the awesome brilliant fantasmagorical thing about those lists? :woot: Flip them around, and all of a sudden they become a goals list. And goals have paths to achieve them, solutions built right in.

And that’s a trick to figuring out if it’s something you actually hate about yourself vs something you hate about your life, or what’s happened in your life, or other external things. Because if the only solution is “Invent a time machine, go back, and stop XYZ from happening”? That’s not something you hate about you.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Love your post @Friday

And this is one of the best things I've ever read on the forum:

There’s quite enough pain and despair in the world without inviting it for tea and begging it to stay the summer.

:) :) :)

 

[Chris-duck]

Hey, thanks for replies, I'll type out a real reply either later tonight or in the morning, just a quick message to say thanks and I'm not ignoring, just totally done in from work right now so no brain space :laugh: I'll have a think though and send out a real reply soon!

 

[Chris-duck]

Hoping you get some good insights into this from peeps :hug:

I think it's 100% untrue

Thanks :hug:

I bet you can come up with more reasons why people would like you than not like you. And hate is a strong word put it where it belongs. On your abusers. Give it to them! XO

Yeah, the stuff I hate about myself isn't really stuff I'd hate other people for. And I hate other peoples abusers, but not mine. But I have it all backwards I guess.

In your opinion what makes a person bad? What would make a person good?

I think -most- people are good, or at worst, just selfish. So people are good if they at least -try- to treat other people well, people bad if they deliberately treat other people badly (But even then, sometimes that's not -bad-, just selfish, it depends I guess)
I know by these standards, I meet my own good people criteria, but I don't know, I just don't feel like I do. Like entertaining the idea that I -might- not be totally awful, is just making me think about how the good things I try to do are just a coverup for the bad that I am. But I have absolutely nothing (rational) to back that up with :shifty:

I've wanted to write something here, because I really, really think that you're a terrific person, but I don't know what to say. I want to say something helpful, but I don't know what that is

Thanks SRG :)

First of all, everyone here kept telling me that I was a good person. I didn't believe it, but I let myself read what everyone said and started to wonder what it would mean to me if I WAS actually a good person. I decided that it would mean that I really wouldn't be able to hate myself anymore.

Yeah, I believe people don't think I am, I guess cos people tell me I'm good and then I'm like "well, that's not right, so what extra layer can I add to this so that I can totally discount that too?!" :P

my T encouraged me to do some inner child work

Heh, yaaahhh.. My chained-up-in-a-dungeon-inner-kids.. :shifty:

You think you deserve everything that happened to you because that kid was horrible and deserved everything that happened to her.

Basically, yeah. Again, no rational argument for this, cos yup, I'm the only kid in the whole world who has ever caused her own abuse (Freida said I'd get a trophy if I ever managed to convince her of this, but I'm not sure I'm doing that great on the convincing..) And I know that doesn't make sense, cos um, duh. But yeahh.

what about you as a baby? Do you hate yourself as a tiny baby? Was that baby a bad baby who deserved to be screamed at and abused?

No? Or I don't think so. But I don't remember being a baby, so the only way I can judge that is by looking at other babies. And I'm incapable of hating -other- babies/kids so.

what do you hate about yourself?

I don't really know. Mostly past choices I guess, because there's nothing in my current life that I particularly hate. Like my current life isn't -ideal- but it's pretty okay. Got my career-job, own flat, accumulated some kids, have enough money for holidays when I feel like it and get the time off. So mostly past-version-of-me that I hate, current me I just hate for acting not-hate-worthy and therefore tricking people, but uh, to not feel like I'm tricking people I'd have to deliberately be a douchebag which I don't think would help my problem :laugh:

And that’s a trick to figuring out if it’s something you actually hate about yourself vs something you hate about your life, or what’s happened in your life, or other external things. Because if the only solution is “Invent a time machine, go back, and stop XYZ from happening”? That’s not something you hate about you.

Okay, thanks. I think it's tangled up though because my -choices- contributed to things (Even if we only include teenage/adult years), so I don't really understand how that's not -me-. Because all people really are is just a combination of all their choices, and I know the bad choices shouldn't cancel out the good/neutral ones, but ehh.

Thanks everyone for replies :) And I swear I'm trying to not be particularly dense :shifty:

 

[somerandomguy]

But I don't remember being a baby, so the only way I can judge that is by looking at other babies. And I'm incapable of hating -other- babies/kids so.

Soooo ... what happens when you think of yourself as a baby? What kinds of things would you say to yourself as a baby?

 

[Mach123]

You don't have to try and be rational about your feelings which I find don't obey the laws of rationality.
As I felt better I was able to slowly start to unpack some of my self loathing.
The therapist looked at me for years and asked "what if nothing's wrong with you?" WTF does that even mean? I think I used to get mad at her for saying that.
She was right though that was at the time the core issue and the main point.
I just want to say that you can feel better in spite of this even though it seems impossible.
At first I remember peeking out at her. (Girl me is how I refer to it). And thinking (then saying) "she wouldn't say that if she could see me." Then, because she kept encouraging me, I showed myself to her more and more. (What I was trying to hide all those years, or is it who I was trying to hide?)

Of course then it became "so we're going to have sex now right?" Which is what I want and don't want.

IDK if this has anything to do with you but the framework I learned in Judith Hermans book trauma and recovery and it's very typical CSA stuff. That helped me so much.

My therapist knew all this from day one and behaved accordingly with me. It's incredibly hard and I really appreciate you being strong enough to say it. : ). I am totally supportive of you and your effort.