I hate myself and everyone else should too.

[Deleted member 47099]

So I dunno if this is relevant/ useful...

One of the things I talk to my clients about is how with ourselves, we always see ourselves "from the inside view" and with EVERYONE else, we see them "from the outside view".

And that's what we tend to compare, even tho we're not aware we're doing it.

So we see our INTERNAL MESSINESS and compare that with other ppl's TIDY FACADES.

And our internal messiness always seems so MESSY compared to how TIDY other people's tidy facades look.

And of course, it's exactly the same for everyone else... They think *our* facade is wayyyyy more tidy than *their* internal messiness.

It's actually quite a tricky thing to break through and stop doing...

Even at 40, I still catch myself doing this, tho I've now had 40 years of evidence piling up that it's a stupid/ ridiculous/ unhelpful/ untrue way of looking at things :facepalm::laugh:

For example, in my extended family, there's 2 family units that are incredibly well off, financially. They're rich, basically.

Now, from the outside, their facades are soooooo glossy and sparkly and jealousy-invoking.

From the inside (which you actually DO get to see as a relative, cos they just can't keep up their facade 24/7...) both families are ABSOLUTE FREAKING SHITSHOWS.

One abused their kids so bad, that the older kid was anorexic, had panic attacks, had OCD at age FIVE.

The other has kids on drugs due to how dysfunctionally they grew up.

Both marriages are an utter sham, the only reason they haven't divorced is to keep up appearances.

These familes are absolutely atrocious.

Yet from the outside, everyone's "jealous" of them :facepalm::facepalm:

So this paradox / dichotomy of inner view and outer view is actually quite a big problem for our brains.

It's what we base a huuuuuge amount of our information on, regarding "who am I" and "who are others".

 

[Justmehere]

Yeah, the stuff I hate about myself isn't really stuff I'd hate other people for.

How about a little equality? To hold yourself to one standard, and everyone else another, is unfair. Some of the compassion you show others applies to you as well. You are not so different than all of humanity. :)

Most people struggle, have made mistakes, and on their average day, act better than they do in their worst moments and days.


Another way to look at it is to consider what you have to gain by self-hate? What would you lose by exchanging it for self-compassion? For me, my own self-hate keeps me from having to face the pain of the past. If I'm terrible, then I don't have to feel the pain of the anger at the abuser and the grief about what happened that should have never have happened to me. I deserved it, everyone else just doesn't know the real me that really deserved it, and so on. Self-hate is a maladaptive coping skill. Maybe it is a way you set a boundary between you and others, and keep people at a distance, maybe there is some other way it maladaptively "helps" and it's time to find another way.

 

[Freida]

Yeah, the stuff I hate about myself isn't really stuff I'd hate other people for. And I hate other peoples abusers, but not mine. But I have it all backwards I guess.

p though because my -choices- contributed to things (Even if we only include teenage/adult years), so I don't really understand how that's not -me-. Because all people really are is just a combination of all their choices, and I know the bad choices shouldn't cancel out the good/neutral ones, but ehh.

I totally get this. My ts have been banging their heads against the walls for years to get me to stop hating that part of me that should be hating the abuser. I know that my choices caused my issues -- even if the only choice I made was to open a door one day. I can track back every bad thing that happened to a choice I made FIRST. So of course what happened is my fault, and of course it makes me hate myself. I file it in my No Shit Sherlock file.

Being on this site has been a double edged sword because it forces me to see that other people are in my situation, who feel like I do, who are swallowed up by guilt and shame and they shouldn't be. I have yet to find a person here who is responsible for what happened to them. And believe me when I say I look. Because if I can find just one person who "allowed" their situation it will make my guilt and self hate possible. But so far no luck.

So I struggle with -- why am I to blame and they aren't? Why am I the guilty person and they aren't? Why do they have such horrible traumas and yet are still willing to listen to me blather on about my stupid Series of Unfortunate Events? Why do they say I shouldn't hate myself -- can't they see the truth of who I am?
Honestly I don't think I will ever get past it.
It may be a fight I can't win

But. I have stuck it on the back burner for now.
Because I have found other things that need my attention -- things that I CAN possibly change.
Getting my trauma timeline straight
Learning my triggers
Coping with my emotions
Understanding trust
Joining a support group and letting them help me.

So I've stopped fighting the self hate for now. It's there, it may always be.
It's not worth the energy to fight it right now because I have other goals to achieve
Ones that don't involve me accepting my role in my dramas
Im working on what I can change -- and for now letting the other ones just stay where they are

so ---- what can you refocus on?
If you take your eyes off the self hate, what can you work on to get healthy?

 

[Chris-duck]

Sorry for the late reply guys, heads pretty far up my own arse right now :laugh: but eh.

Soooo ... what happens when you think of yourself as a baby? What kinds of things would you say to yourself as a baby?

I don't think much when I think of me as a baby, just "generic baby", so I guess I'd say the same things as I'd say to miniS or the kids baby sister? I don't particularly think I was a bad baby, but I also amn't sure that babies make choices, not conscious choices anyway outside of just surviving.

I just want to say that you can feel better in spite of this even though it seems impossible.

It's incredibly hard and I really appreciate you being strong enough to say it. : ). I am totally supportive of you and your effort.

Thanks :)

So this paradox / dichotomy of inner view and outer view is actually quite a big problem for our brains.

It's what we base a huuuuuge amount of our information on, regarding "who am I" and "who are others"

And yeah, I know I do this. Like I can hear my thoughts and judge me on them and judge other people on actions, and my actions are fine, but thoughts aren't, but I dunno how true that is for everyone else. And I'm probably not that different from the human race, so yeah.

How about a little equality? To hold yourself to one standard, and everyone else another, is unfair. Some of the compassion you show others applies to you as well. You are not so different than all of humanity.

Yeah, I get how that makes sense, part of the problem is I'm kinda like "well obviously theyre doing that cos *reasons* but my "reasons" are my fault so.." It doesn't add up, I know that. I just dunno how to be nice to myself :laugh: I fake it sometimes then just feel guilty

Another way to look at it is to consider what you have to gain by self-hate? What would you lose by exchanging it for self-compassion? For me, my own self-hate keeps me from having to face the pain of the past. If I'm terrible, then I don't have to feel the pain of the anger at the abuser and the grief about what happened that should have never have happened to me. I deserved it, everyone else just doesn't know the real me that really deserved it, and so on. Self-hate is a maladaptive coping skill. Maybe it is a way you set a boundary between you and others, and keep people at a distance, maybe there is some other way it maladaptively "helps" and it's time to find another way.

Yup. Everything's my fault, so I can just stop being a douche and everything will be fine, nobody deliberately hurt me, they had no choice cos I'm such a dickhead :P And obviously I can't let anyone near me, cos I'm totally toxic so I'm saving them from me really :P
I just dunno what other way to find. Cos I get how that all sounds insane, and sometimes I -actually- get it, I tell myself how I didn't deserve shit and force myself to do nice shit for myself and believe that other people don't see me the way I see me, but I guess it just doesn't really sink in.

so ---- what can you refocus on?
If you take your eyes off the self hate, what can you work on to get healthy?

I'm not really sure just now, like I don't really have anything specific on my mind and my brain won't turn back on (Eh, maybe on how to stop my brain from noping out at any available opportunity?! :rolleyes: )

Getting my trauma timeline straight
Learning my triggers
Coping with my emotions
Understanding trust
Joining a support group and letting them help me

This sounds like a gross, and therefore probably applicable :P , list

And thanks for your replies guys, sorry this is the worst reply that took the longest time for me to get to. Hope yer all alright :)

 

[Justmehere]

Do you like to agree with perpetrators of abuse?

You strike me as someone with a strong sense of values of justice and everyone being treated right. You have expressed strong agreement with really terrible abusers. A common thing for trauma survivors. I do it. Self hate is agreement with perps.

So maybe a starting place is to simply start challenging these self hates thoughts, is to connect with some place of agreement with your values. "No, I'm not going to agree with abusive perps. They are wrong."

Because they are wrong. You've got their beliefs in your head.

Yup. Everything's my fault, so I can just stop being a douche and everything will be fine, nobody deliberately hurt me, they had no choice cos I'm such a dickhead :p And obviously I can't let anyone near me, cos I'm totally toxic so I'm saving them from me really :p

I just dunno what other way to find. Cos I get how that all sounds insane, and sometimes I -actually- get it, I tell myself how I didn't deserve shit and force myself to do nice shit for myself and believe that other people don't see me the way I see me, but I guess it just doesn't really sink in.

Your self-hate is a well-engrained habit and defense mechanism. It takes time to build up other ways to handle stuff so that someone doesn't need a defense mechanism anymore. It might also be worthwhile to try letting others to be closer to you, as an experiment, to experience if your thoughts about what they think are true or not.

Most of all, try to not hate yourself for your habit of self-hate. It takes courage to take it on in the way you have here. I hope you keep up the good work!

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Doing good work Chrissy :hug:

Keep chipping away at it... you'll get there :)

 

[Lionheart]

I am going to ask you the same questions my therapist asked me...

When are you going to be enough for yourself? When will you be enough to love? What will it take to get to like who you are and to love yourself despite the past?

I used to think I was unlovable and therefore I was at fault for the trauma I endured.. But this was just a lie I told myself so that I could have a sense of control. Is it possible that by hating yourself and your past, you are denying the fact that you did not deserve to be traumatized?!?

You seem to me to be a cool person. You have read and liked several of my posts and it does not go unnoticed or unappreciated, so thank you!!! I don't know you, but I have severe doubts that you deserve to be hated. Perhaps you could redirect your hate at a more appropriate target as has been suggested by others in this thread. What do you stand to lose by loving yourself?

Wishing you the best...
Lionheart

 

[Chris-duck]

You strike me as someone with a strong sense of values of justice and everyone being treated right. You have expressed strong agreement with really terrible abusers. A common thing for trauma survivors. I do it. Self hate is agreement with perps.

So maybe a starting place is to simply start challenging these self hates thoughts, is to connect with some place of agreement with your values. "No, I'm not going to agree with abusive perps. They are wrong."

Thanks. I think part of my problem with this is that one of my perps has done pretty amazing things for other people, so it seems more of a -me- thing than a him thing. And I get how his good things don't cancel out his bad, but since his bad things are all me (or mum) related, it does kinda seem irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Like overall he's not bad, but heh, I get how overall he's done worse than me, he's just also done better so..
I have a really skewed set of scales, I know it's biased based on whatever I want to think, this self hate thing isn't something I should agree with them on. I'll try though.

Your self-hate is a well-engrained habit and defense mechanism. It takes time to build up other ways to handle stuff so that someone doesn't need a defense mechanism anymore. It might also be worthwhile to try letting others to be closer to you, as an experiment, to experience if your thoughts about what they think are true or not

Yeah, I'm fake-close to a lot of people. I'm pretty open in real life about fact-stuff, I just have this block around sharing how I -feel- about anything. Like ask me anything, I'll probably answer, just I'm not gonna show that I care about any of it. It's like I constantly am working out what the worst way is that they could f*ck me over and whether I'd deal with that, and I kinda fake it all. I dunno how to start letting people in without them thinking something is wrong :laugh: I know something kinda -is- wrong, but eh, I don't want them to think that? But I get how that kinda defeats the point :shifty:

It takes courage to take it on in the way you have here. I hope you keep up the good work!

Thanks :)

Doing good work Chrissy :hug:

Keep chipping away at it... you'll get there :)

Thanks :)

When are you going to be enough for yourself? When will you be enough to love? What will it take to get to like who you are and to love yourself despite the past?

I have no idea. I'm not sure that I consider it possible? I want it to be, but it seems a bit unrealistic. I just have crazy high expectations of what I'm meant to be doing and managing, and my expectations are probably superhuman, even ignoring the MH and physical mess that is my brain and body :laugh: I'll try and come up with some reasons, but I think that since right now there's nothing I'm doing that makes me not enough, so I'm not sure why I'm not okay right now, other than I'm just not :laugh:

you are denying the fact that you did not deserve to be traumatized?!?

Yup. Pretty convinced it's my fault and totally on me. Even the stuff that I understand can't have been on me cos of age/circumstances, I kinda blame myself for other reasons (not telling people, being in those circumstances to start with, blahblah), I know I wouldn't blame other people in that way. I dunno.

You seem to me to be a cool person. You have read and liked several of my posts and it does not go unnoticed or unappreciated, so thank you!!! I don't know you, but I have severe doubts that you deserve to be hated

Thanks :)

 

[Justmehere]

that one of my perps has done pretty amazing things for other people, so it seems more of a -me- thing than a him thing.

I’m sorry, but you are just not that powerful as to cause someone to become a perp.

Many perps do amazing things in life. Child abuse rates are high with the wealthy, but hugely underreported. Many brave people have had times of doing horrible things. It’s unfair to yourself and others to think that because someone is good in other ways, you must be at fault. Nope. My abusers for the most part have done incredibly good things in life. They stuffed all their darkness and pain and then exploded it and acted out on it in private. One of my abusers is a sociopath and is well lived because he’s super charming but evil as all get out on private.

I didn’t cause that evil. Sometimes it’s very telling to believe it’s me, because then maybe I can control it and not face the horrible reality that I couldn’t control or stop it.

You couldn’t either. I’m sorry. Their actions are beyond your responsibility and power to manipulate that way. I used to work in a prison volunteer capacity and wow, it was eye opening on how the worst peeps could do great things and fall very hard. Just looks at folks like Bill Cosby and Larry Nassar. Lots of people honored them for legit good work for many decades. They were also perps, and it’s not the fault of their victims just because they were good in other ways.

I hope you begin to let go of the false sense of control over the perps choices and behaviors, because when you do, it opens up to becoming a lot more free, and ironically, a lot more safe in the world.

Yeah, I'm fake-close to a lot of people. I'm pretty open in real life about fact-stuff, I

Yeah. I do the same. Huge difference been openness and vulnerability.

I hope you consider trying to lean into vulnerability in some small ways, with relatively safe people, and notice how it turns out. It will be hard, but it can help some battle their self hate to experience others acceptance.

 

[Ronin]

so I'm not sure why I'm not okay right now, other than I'm just not :laugh:

So maybe if it is a state you default to, it is something that is the usual in your life... and not all that bad that it is is there? It is okay to not be okay / may be just a point of difference, your NotOkay is not something you are failing with fixing, you are who you are with what you were dealt... not a screw up, that.

 

[Chris-duck]

I hope you begin to let go of the false sense of control over the perps choices and behaviors, because when you do, it opens up to becoming a lot more free, and ironically, a lot more safe in the world

Thanks. And yeah, I get it -logically-, I'll get there. Thanks

I hope you consider trying to lean into vulnerability in some small ways, with relatively safe people, and notice how it turns out. It will be hard, but it can help some battle their self hate to experience others acceptance

Heh, thanks. Eh. I'll work on it somehow.. I'm not entirely sure where I'm meant to start? :laugh: But I'll work something out, heh.

So maybe if it is a state you default to, it is something that is the usual in your life... and not all that bad that it is is there? It is okay to not be okay / may be just a point of difference, your NotOkay is not something you are failing with fixing, you are who you are with what you were dealt... not a screw up, that

I'm sorry Ronin, thanks for replying, I've read this so many times and I can't make sense of it, I'm pretty sure I'm the problem, not you, cos my brain is absolute mush right now, but can you explain it in a different way? So sorry! Totally don't mind if you can't be bothered! Thanks, sorry!

 

[Friday]

Thanks. I think part of my problem with this is that one of my perps has done pretty amazing things for other people, so it seems more of a -me- thing than a him thing. And I get how his good things don't cancel out his bad, but since his bad things are all me (or mum) related, it does kinda seem irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

I had to completely rewrite my own morality a long time ago, instead of just accepting what had been handed down.

If you’ve never done this? Consider moving from a country where women have equal rights to a country where women are not allowed to vote, drive, work, etc. Would you retain your previous beliefs that women are/should be equal and act as such, adapt to the new view of women under the law and align your beliefs with the law, or retain your beliefs whilst following laws you disagree with?

One of the useful things about rewriting my own moral code is considering the penal system. It doesn’t matter how many good acts a person has done -or what their personality is like- if they’re caught & convicted of breaking the law. The street thug, soccer mom, & politician all have their lives stopped and are sent to prison for murder. That one act is enough to remove them from society.

The difference about it being my OWN moral code, is that I don’t need any kind of outside validation, or agreement, or action. No one has to be arrested, tried, and convicted. No one has to be judged by others to be in the wrong.

It’s enough that I judge what they’ve done to be wrong.

I don’t care about their personality, situation, success, social standing. None of it matters to me. They can be the friendliest, most affluent, highly esteemed person on the planet... but if they’ve crossed me? Crossed the lines in my head and heart? (Boundaries) They’re struck off.

I don’t care if society wants them removed. I don’t care if society manages to remove them. Other people’s opinions on the subject simply don’t matter. As I’ve already formed my own.