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I'm dysfunctionally helpful and don't know how to stop

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Sophy thats a good explaination...
I expect honoring, after 5 mins I ask myself Why? For what? I am no...
Actually, I think some of the time, our help should be honoured!
Sure, we shouldn't always be helping TO GET honoured! :rolleyes::laugh:

But of course it's appropriate for ppl to say THANK YOU and give us a big hug if we've done something lovely.

Codependency just takes it that bit further, where it becomes an unhealthy dynamic...

Like helping for 6 hours (!) even tho there are no "thank yous"
Like going without food for too long and not eating sooner
Like not saying "I can come and help for 2 hours, would that be good?"
etc etc etc
It's little things that add up.
None of these are "bad" per se...
But in their sum total, they just end up being stoopid and not making our life better... :)
 
Oooh, the book by Melanie Beattie has a great thing on this, about triangulation. Maybe @Prec...


Yes, I just read about this in chapter 8! Beatte talks about the "triangle" of codependency. First of all, she thinks that helping because we genuinely want to and the other person definitely needs the help is different from the kind of help we offer that's motivated by codependency which is when we help even though there's a part of us that feels hesitant, guilty, awkward, saintly, anxious or pity. There are other adjectives she uses too. If we do it for these alterior reasons, we inevitably end up feeling angry and resentful, and become a persecutor, and start to lay in on the other (2nd part of the triangle). Often the other person doesn't even know we feel that way, or doesn't let on that they know. They don't even act appreciative, especially if they resent you getting angry at them, which leads to you feeling like a victim (3rd part of the triangle). You did all this stuff to help, but end up feeling like it was all for nothing, and you're thinking 'why does this always happen to me?' You feel used, exploited, helpless, hurt, shame, and self-pity. Many codependents are just repeating a pattern from childhood. Beatte thinks that we continue this pattern over and over again as long as we continue to be "rescue" or enable. Do you relate to that, @PURUSHA ?

I've been busy too @Sophy , but on my way to visit the codependency thread now!
 
I also wanted to say that I'm a pretty fast reader. That's a strength of mine. My weakness is that I sometimes act like a bit of a know-it-all because I read so much. Trying to be more compassionate and kind rather than be "smart".
 
I also wanted to say that I'm a pretty fast reader. That's a strength of mine. My weakness is that I sometimes act like a bit of a know-it-all because I read so much. Trying to be more compassionate and kind rather than be "smart".
Well, let's tell all those people who think smart is something negative to go and take a hike! :p
I think smart is wonderful and the combination of compassionate + kind + smart is perfect :)
 
Hi PreciousChild,
Hope this posts finds you well. That was a painful way to have a child love a parent. I want to say few things and hope they are communicated as I mean. Please understand, I am truly writing this from a place of caring you and hoping you find a way out of this.

First and foremost, your dad did this because he was deranged man...and this is truly a real torture of a child.
However, as an adult we all have a way of doing and repeating the torture but of course telling ourselves different story. You would never think your way could hurt people because you are thinking you are taking care of them but in fact you are not taking care of them, you are blocking them from taking care of themselves. Just like your dad took that part of you in a very over and dangerous way, you are doing the same thing to those around you in a very covert and subtle way. You cannot stop because you see it as a valuable asset. Nothing is valuable asset if it is hurting those around you and you in the process.

Even sex is good but can be used as a weapon. Right? So kindness and caring are good but they can be used as a weapon if they are used pathologically and are harming others (not developing sense of they can do it for themselves or out of frustration depending on you because you would not let them be) or harming yourself (because you are giving and giving to get love, feel valued, and yet you are depleted at the end) because nothing left to give self.

and yet, kindness and caring are good but nothing is good if they are given without sense of consciousness and real connection with others.

You do this to people and healthy people probably feel sorry for you because they can see you are seeking that old fashion daddy love and because these people care about you they protect you and let you do it. Those who may have opposite issue to this are probably repulsed by you because they will think ooh gosh, she is giving cause she want something out of me.

Being conscious of your action is good but if you do not the next step, it is like saying I am obese but will eat the full pizza, it is not helping you know the reasons. and the reason you cannot change (IMHO) is because you really think this is a good side of you and until you truly look at your child and see how they are struggling to get out of your way for helping them, you are not going to change.

The love for your child's independence and not needing you must become bigger than your need for their love for giving your taking care. It is harsh but harshness is how the change happens.

Even the earth has volcano to make the earth more fertile.

You need to cry and express your pain for helping your children to them every time you have that need and you recognize it before you do it, until you change automatically in a deep way; keep doing that. If you cannot do that, then that means, you are not ready yet. and that is why a lot of people change after crisis not as much before.
 
I want to add by crying and showing your deep shame of needing to help to your children will (I believe) result or accomplish few things:
it will show you how much shame you are releasing when you say (I am sorry son/daughter, I have this urge to do this for you and I am trying not to so you can do it yourself...the cry and the remorse is good for your child to see). and the other thing, you are releasing the grip from your dad in his teaching this is YOU.

English is not my first and writing is not my forte but hope you get a sense of my intention here. By taking this externally, using language to express it, YOU THE MOTHER risk the sharing of the shame and showing them it is OK to show your unresolved issue that you are trying to resolve. It is hard. It is vulnerability. But you are giving the gift of life to them - opposite of what your dad took away from you.

If mom is OK to show her release of shame for having this deep need to "display" looking for love by trying to help, the child/adult child is learning by observing it is OK to show this side and still be loved.

Hope you find peace. It is a great quality to have but not when it is weaponized.

Love and peace.
 
Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts down, @grit. I appreciate getting feedback about what I wrote. I think you have some really good points. It gave me additional perspectives to consider. I am trying to do something about my codependency through reading, reflection, therapy and action. But as with many things related to my complex ptsd, it takes many attempts before even a little progress is made, but I do try. I wanted to address a few of your points more specifically.

You do this to people and healthy people probably feel sorry for you because they can see you are seeking that old fashion daddy love and because these people care about you they protect you and let you do it. Those who may have opposite issue to this are probably repulsed by you because they will think ooh gosh, she is giving cause she want something out of me.
Wow, that was a splash of reality. I'm pretty good about boundaries at work and with friends, but I probably do a little too much and go out of my way a little more than the average person. But with my ex husband and ex bf, yes, I was doing too much. One lapped it up; the other felt pissed actually because he saw it as me questioning his competency (which is how his own parents treated him). It might have been the best thing for me for him to react with anger because it is so opposite of my past experience. The downside is that my ex bf was too caught up in his own triggers to ever show me compassion. If I messed up, which I don't think was excessive, it was always about how my behaviors negatively affected him. We never talked about what I needed from him in working on this problem. He didn't want to go to therapy himself, so I couldn't expect him to do any more.

Being conscious of your action is good but if you do not the next step, it is like saying I am obese but will eat the full pizza, it is not helping you know the reasons. and the reason you cannot change (IMHO) is because you really think this is a good side of you and until you truly look at your child and see how they are struggling to get out of your way for helping them, you are not going to change.
How we affect our children, I think, is always hard to assess. My son is my number one priority, and any progress I've made was because I am highly motivated to be good mom to him. Something complicating the matter is that he has some special needs. I fret whether I'm doing too much or too little. For example, he has speech pragmatic issues that he sees a specialist for. If someone asks him a question, sometimes he won't even respond which gets him a negative reaction (people think he's being rude). So instead, I might answer for him, like tell the counter person which soda he wants. There have been times when I've let 3 minutes go by in silence thinking it's the right thing to do to help him learn to talk more. But so far, that hasn't worked. But listen, he's sweet, he does dishes every night and cleans his room, we get along well, he works 100% independently in terms of school work and gets mostly A's and some B's (I really mean that I let him do everything - he won't even let me double-check his work). In his 8th grade year, I felt guilty because I did not once even check in with him on his end of year history project until the night before it was due. He said he got it covered, and he ended up earning a certificate of excellence from his school. When I post here, I probably don't give a balanced view; I give a stream of consciousness of all my angst and worries. But the more balanced view is that I feel I've done a good enough, if not perfect, job. I tried really hard to make up for the things I failed at and I always tried to give him a lot of love and affection.

You need to cry and express your pain for helping your children to them every time you have that need and you recognize it before you do it, until you change automatically in a deep way; keep doing that. If you cannot do that, then that means, you are not ready yet. and that is why a lot of people change after crisis not as much before.
I go to therapy and work on myself a lot. That's one thing my ex bf kept saying - that he couldn't have asked me to do more in terms of work on every problem we discussed. Part of that work is genuine healing and working through my emotions, and I've learned a lot from my therapist and authors like van der Kolk, Heller, and now Beatte. They have some pretty well-researched methods and insights that I have tried and believe has helped me to make lasting changes.

Did I address your concerns, @grit? I wanted to give you some additional information. Please feel free to follow up.
 
my dear preciouschild,
I only respond to posts that I can relate to and also that I am learning most from. After all I think that is the point of this forum so please let me say thank you for writing stories across the globe whatever you are to touch me enough to have this conversation.

Secondly, I suck using the quotation in this site and was already reprimanded by the moderators so I am sorry if I do not quote each statement I am responding to directly. I will write what I want to share with you in stream of consciousness too.

Now first and foremost, please know you and your parenting style and the relations with your child is above and beyond of this topic. I am only responding to you about your kindness/caring/giving side that is becoming too automatic for some people to protect because they love you, ignore because they love you, take advantage because you are giving, or run away because you remind them of their dependence pathology or whatever. That side of you is only like if an arm is hurting not the head, the heart or the torso or the legs. It is fraction of you, NOT ALL OF YOU AND YOUR PARENTING SIDE. I want to make that clear so the conversation does not become (or I do not sound like I am fully judging the being of precious child). which I am not.

I think from what you are writing and how you are expressing yourself fully here, you are probably much better parent than most! so this is not about parenting.


You are truly doing find. I am very sure you have done this already but it is OK to ask your son if or when he may like you to speak for him. If he says let say, ooh yeah, do not speak for me. I want to order the soda even if it takes me a while....the mere fact of having that conversation clears the air for you and for him and if people are getting little impatient, that is their problem. If he is OK taking few minutes to order (If he is OK with that emotionally- which requires a great resilience from mom's impact) then the clerk's impatience is really hers. She can see he is struggling to answer...let him. but have that conversation with him. I think (this is my opinion), if you always jump for him to please the clerk's others feelings and discomfort over his discomfort, then that is a problem. and that will be internalised very strong in him. that is he is a burden to the society. You can preemptively ask hey Leo, do you want me to get you a soda or you want to order a soda? that is putting the ball in his park. This is not my expertise but hope you get the drift. Involve him the process of your thoughts about how to help him.

I had experience recently where my husband was in the emergency for hernia surgery. it was a teaching hospital, and all these doctors kept coming and poking on it and asking the same stupid questions over and over. He was so much in pain and they kept trying to put the thing back and it was painful and they were blahahahah surgery is risky we could push it back, and go on and on. bring another set of wanna be doctors and the questions and pushing. I was going so angry and impatient because I was holding my tongue to become the hen and speak for him and tell these people sorry but NOOOOOOOOOOOO!you cannot push it back to show your students and my husband needs surgery ASAP! I was sitting there really annoyed and angry. but I did not want to interfere his autonomy to speak for himself.
When we get a bit break, I said to my husband, babe, I cannot watch you being pushed like this it is painful for me. They are asking you same questions over and over and trying to push the head of mushroom back to the neck of the mushroom. I feel helpless sitting there doing nothing. and he was like well imagine how I feel. Say something. I said well if you give me permission I can speak for you. honestly, I started to answer the questions and formulated exactly what he needs and he got surgery same day at 7pm. I was proud of myself for not jumping in there like lioness but getting a full permission to be helpful.
Does this story make sense for you?

Your kid is smart. let him tell you what he needs from you and stick to that. Ask rather than help.
with the b/fs, I am one of those people that believe (just a belief that can change) we marry or get intimate those that need to teach or we learn the most from. Those bf or husband left you realising this side of you, and you are working on it but it is good to know we only misunderstand each other because we mis-read, mis-relate, mis-empathy with each other.

Your giving nature was good at the beginning of the relationships that it got you the relationship, but it become a problem because you missed to give them a chance to be giving. No one wants to be giving giving and others taking taking...it is painful when it is extreme.

I too have this caring nature and have to challenge myself because I am trying to help others and do not want to be giving so much they become dependent on me...that makes really a bad helper professionally.

It is a form of baby asking for love, but thank goodness we are not baby anymore. language/dialogue is important to overcome a lot of baby issues.
 
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