Is it dissociation or a flashback? Or can it be both?

[sunshinedaydream]

I'm new at going to therapy, but have had this same experience with intimacy with people.

Basically something makes me start to feel panicky and shaky and then I feel like I can't breathe, and my eyes dart around, but I can't stop them and focus on anything, and I feel overwhelmed, and if it continues to ramp up, I will shut down into what I think is dissociation. but if I don't get all the way shut down, and I'm just feeling panicky and overwhelmed, is that still dissociation? Can you have a flashback and dissociate at the same time?

I'm trying to understand my symptoms, which are so confusing. Thank you!

 

[Friday]

This will either bake your noodle or things will click into place...

...flashbacks are a type of disassociation.

Disassociation is the umbrella term that contains a huge spectrum of types; from normal everyday (driving along a familiar stretch of road, daydreaming, professional distance) on one end of the spectrum all the way over to wholly separate personalities on the opposite side of the spectrum. Flashbacks fall somewhere in the middle.

HOWEVER? What you’re describing is a panic attack.

 

[sunshinedaydream]

Really? It doesn’t feel like a panic attack though.

 

[Ronin]

I'm just feeling panicky and overwhelmed

This bit.

You said, yourself, you are panicky.

 

[sunshinedaydream]

That’s true, but I’m so confused about what are flashbacks or emotional memories, etc. I just get these intense visceral feelings and they get me panicky. But they don’t seem like a panic attack per se..

 

[Ronin]

From definition, flashbacks: reliving of any bit of a past event.

Memories: Remembering, not reliving, of the past. a.k.a. being aware it is not NOW, just reminisced to.

How do you picture a panic attack, then?
Your reaction does not have to be wild, or even observable by anyone else, for it to count.

 

[Friday]

It could just be an anxiety attack... the real difference between the two is whether or not it ramps up so hard/fast that you kiss reality goodbye briefly (and then the recovery time / zoned out hangover that follows)... or not and just sort of hover around in panicky-anxiety-land.

Anxiety attacks suck, but they distort reality -or at least one’s feelings about reality; this is scary/dangerous/impossible/I can’t/help/run/go away/heart in a vice/dread/fear/anger/etc.) rather than kiss it goodbye, and don’t usually have the same kinds of :confused: confused recovery time whilst one struggles to get their feet back under them and get back to reality that panic attacks have. When anxiety attacks lift it tends to be like color and sense have returned to the world, as opposed to panic attacks which coming out of them are more like a particularly bad hangover whilst still being drunk.

Panic/ Flashback/ Zoned the f*ck Out but still jaggedy/electric/shakey... usually spells panic attack rather than anxiety attack.

I could ALSO just be misunderstanding what you’ve written. To me, it reads like a pretty classic panic attack.

 

[EveHarrington]

Are you familiar with emotional flashbacks? Pete walkers website is a good resource on how to deal with them.

 

[sunshinedaydream]

I am just so confused. I don't really know what it is. Nothing seems like it fits. I'm not familiar with emotional flashbacks, but it does kind of feel like what I read about them on that site, which I did read.

I guess I had understood panic attacks to be out of no where and not attached to trauma. Whereas trauma reactions I thought were more about flashbacks, etc.

 

[Tinyflame]

I had understood panic attacks to be out of no where and not attached to trauma

I think panic attacks can be attached to anything?

And conversely, flashback-content doesn't necessarily involve panic as the deciding feature, could be horror, etc (though I feel panic if I realize I had a FB (quite rare), but more in terms of what did I say, or do? :( As well as trying to wrap my head around it. get my bearings. But that too feels more like when you realize you've fainted, post fainting (hey what looks so funny, perspective-wise, it's the floor)- that kind of thing).

 

[Sideways]

Panic attacks can be triggered by flashbacks, emotional flashbacks, or even just plain old emotions. Once you have ptsd, your system is primed to flick into fight/flight way too easily. That’s part of the core pathology of ptsd - the over-sensitive fight/flight response.

So, it could be that an underlying emotion (which you may have numbed yourself out to) is driving your nervous system over that panic threshold that is waaaay too easy to go into with ptsd.

“Panic attacks” are usually something people talk about in relation to anxiety disorders. With ptsd, it’s common to hear people talk about fight/flight, but essentially the same thing is happening. Just different terminology.

Darting eyes and stuff? Sounds a lot like your nervous system heading into that fight/flight response.

You mentioned that when it ramps up, you just shut down completely? “Fight/flight” actually also includes “freeze”, “fawn” and “flop”.

Fawn is a complex one. Flop? Is when your brain has decided “Lion is about to eat me, I’m done”. Your system has shot past fight/flight (when your eyes are darting) and is now reducing your level of awareness, your arms and legs go floppy, and brain is flooding your body with hormones and chemicals that will make you numb.

Between fight/flight (aka panic attack) and flop? Is freeze. When your system is starting to shut down because the darting eyes has gone on too long, your system freezes.

Emotional flashbacks and emotional states aren’t irrelevant just because someone has called something a panic attack. Plenty of times I’ve had flashbacks that have caused me a panic attack, sometimes going right through to flop when my body is just a jelly-like unresponsive blob. Emotions and flashbacks can do that.

What’s going on for you? Could be all of the things you mentioned, with the outcome you’re describing being a panic attack. What might be more helpful to you is switching the language: my emotions/flashbacks have caused my system to go into fight/flight/freeze/flop.

Understanding the process (this might feel instantaneous, but there are still quick steps involved) might help you start to recognise those moments when this is starting to happen.

Building the skill of recognising what’s happening, as it’s happening? You’re halfway to solving this problem. All that’s left? Is figuring out the skills to apply to stop it happening. Like, completely.

Which would be totally awesome!

 

[MyWillow]

They all suck. I’ve only ever had panic attacks IN therapy. Triggered by flashbacks. 100% agree with @Friday that flashbacks are just another un-fun version of dissociation. I’ve lost time, felt terrified, seen stuff, smelt stuff, felt stuff and everything in between. It matters less how it’s defined and way more by your coping mechanisms.