Other I've been paying for the sins of other men all my life

[SoulSeeker]

I'm a man in my late 30s. I have CPTSD. And I feel like I've been paying for the sins of other men all my life. My mom was raised by a violent, possibly incestuous father. She is traumatized, possibly has a personality disorder and raised me with the idea that men are evil, and that they should get "their dick cut off". She never loved my dad, hates sex and instead of having an adult relationship with adult men she chose to be enmeshed with me and to therefore lean into emotional incest by getting her emotional needs met by her kids. She, naturally, hates anger and suppressed it in me whenever I expressed it. She metaphorically castrated me, made me afraid of others and subservient to her needs. This gave me an extremely skewed idea of what normal human relationships are supposed to be like and drilled the idea that being a man is toxic by default into my head. A good man is an obedient, codependent, meek man and yet also a pathetic creature given how meek, codependent and always criticized my dad is. That was my first lesson that I received due to the sins of my grandfather.

Growing up, I, of course, carried a lot of shame and confusion towards my own identity and always felt like I was never enough especially within relationships with girls. Late in life, I finally allowed myself to have girlfriends but due to my early attachment trauma, I picked unhealthy women who were abusive to me, I believe now I was even sexually assaulted. There was often this talk that they picked me because I wasn't like other men but this idea would quickly devolve into the opposite when I started trying to get away from them to protect myself. I was called abusive myself, I was compared to their dads who were toxic, my natural protective anger (never an abusive anger) towards abuse was once again painted as evil. I was manipulated with threats of suicide and all kinds of toxic techniques. Just like my mom would do, they would use DARVO regularly, making me doubt my own goodness. I could do nothing right and would always end up being painted as the abuser. They knew where to stab, my doubts about being an evil piece of patriarchal shit was the perfect sore spot to target.

I do my best to be kind and to be lucid towards people and I am NOT an abusive man , in fact, I am overly cautious not to cross boundaries. I am well versed in feminism, I support it and I dislike people saying things like "this gender is like that", "this gender is like this", I see people as complex individuals and despite having so many girls and women assault me (I was also sexually assaulted by 2 girls when I was around 5) and torture me emotionally, I do not see women as worse than men. I also view my sister as a great example of a good woman, I love her deeply and think of her when doubts creep in and when I start to think all women are the same, an irrational thought I don't want to fall victim to.

I am now working very hard on boundaries and trying to surround myself with healthier people. But, as a man, I will inevitably be seen as an oppressor, a potential rapist, an evil person who carries the original sin of manliness. And that makes me extremely uncomfortable and sad, given my history, it hits me deeper than most and when I get triggered, people tend to think that it's because I have a guilty conscience, I don't. I just feel unheard and unjustly judged, and having been abused by women so many times, it feels even more insulting to be seen as an abuser. I know people generally don't care about men's issues and feel like they take the space that should be given to women's issue, it's just how it is. I don't even talk about my history most of the time. I don't ask to be seen as a victim, the minimum I want is to not be painted as something I am not.

Recently, a woman doing street charity wanted me to stop so I can give money to their cause. I said no with my head, I give to charities from time to time but dislike the idea of street charity. She said "It's to fight violence against women", I kept walking and she yelled "Well then, violence will keep happening!". It angered me. I yelled at her that using guilt-tripping like that was unacceptable, and painting me as complicit was wrong. She doubled down and kept saying I was the problem. She probably thought I was an abuser myself, me yelling was also proof of it. Ideally, I wish I could keep my cool but I believe my anger was righteous. She has no idea who she says these things too. My sister was a victim of domestic abuse too, I was there to help when she got physically assaulted, this is an issue that is important to me. And who knows, what if my sister had died because of it? She would have still implied I'm complicit, imagine that! This is unacceptable and yet... this discourse is very common. She saw a man, so it's OK to blame me.

All my life.

I am NOT these men! Why is it so hard to attack those who deserve it and to stop torturing innocent men?! I am not a stress ball! I am not here to carry the sins of those who came before me! I am tired of suffering projection! I am A GOOD MAN!

 

[Movingforward10]

, I will inevitably be seen as an oppressor, a potential rapist, an evil person who carries the original sin of manliness.

I think this is a cognitive distortion. Who are these people who see you in this way rather than judging you on your behaviour? When we have experienced abuse, we can develop these deeply held beliefs that actually cause us suffering. We all do it in our own ways on this website. But it is a cognitive distortion.

it feels even more insulting to be seen as an abuser.

Yeah, it must be.

I know people generally don't care about men's issues

I think society generally doesn't care , whether it's men's issues or women's.

feel like they take the space that should be given to women's issue,

There is enough space for all issues. Having space for one group of people doesn't take away from the space of another group of people. We can all have space. It's just society doesn't want it as it would mean society changing.

Recently, a woman doing street charity wanted me to stop so I can give money to their cause. I said no with my head, I give to charities from time to time but dislike the idea of street charity. She said "It's to fight violence against women", I kept walking and she yelled "Well then, violence will keep happening!". It angered me. I yelled at her that using guilt-tripping like that was unacceptable, and painting me as complicit was wrong. She doubled down and kept saying I was the problem. She probably thought I was an abuser myself, me yelling was also proof of it

The problem with cognitive distortions is that we then see proof of it everywhere. And the cycle continues.
This is also a trigger for you, being seen for something you are not.

It's cruel when you have another like you did/have. I have a similar one (I'm female). Mother's like that, with their twisting of realty and their insidious abusive behaviour, have impacts in our pschye that is so deeply held. I'm sorry you have been through what you have.

 

[Rose White]

What @Movingforward10 opened their post with was exactly what I was going to say but then they said a bunch more helpful stuff too.

A lot of what you said is super understandable by many of us on here, and the part about seeing people as people not genders especially.

Something we learn about in therapy are defense mechanisms (like cognitive distortions) and projecting is a big part of that. It’s so common to project what we don’t like about ourselves or can’t tolerate in ourselves onto an other and sometimes that other becomes a conglomeration of a whole group, like a gender.

It’s a lot of work to retune our fears and defenses but it can be done, slowly. You’re doing it when you think about your sister and also when you proclaim (rightly so) that you’re a good person who happens to be a man.

 

[Friday]

I am now working very hard on boundaries

When you’re better at them? Prepare yourself for flooding relief as people like the eedjit street *scammer? Will evoke entirely different emotions -like cautious wariness, &/or pity- or none at all.

* Okay, there are some legit street charities, but most are one or more of a handful of cons.

Then, sadly (sadly? Shrug. New normal, no relief needed, at least not in that regard), you’ll be so used to other people’s bad behaviour telling you nothing about yourself, but a whole lot about them; the relief will vanish, because they won’t even blip your radar. Even when surprised, or having a bad day, people screaming at you that you’ve …killed all the narwhals, ate the oak tree in the park that they wanted to marry, are responsible for Mars calling their embassy workers home because you and everyone else still wear shoes… or whatever nonsense they’re spouting??? Not about you. Screaming eedjits made your bad day worse, because screaming edjits do that, rather than internalising what they were screaming about.

Cautious wariness &/or pity? >>> People who blame an entire GROUP of people for the actions of individuals within that group? Generally fall into 1:3 categories… abusers & similar themselves, broken people, & the scared/ignorant wanting to blame/belong. Lots of crossover, as well as the occasional outlier, but overall? All the person harassing others for money told people? That they either enjoy inflicting pain on strangers (whether they’re running a con, leaning into playing a role; or are natural born cowards, getting to hurt others under the “cover” of “good” blameshifting their assholery in “approved” ways), or are so broken they only care about their own pain.

 

[Friday]

ETA (AKA I forgot to say, above, blushes)

I want to strongly 2nd RW & M10 above, about the layers of pain in the ass, far beyond boundaries, that Triggers & Stressors as well as Cognitive Distortions add. On the upside? Working on ANY of those three areas, will help working with the other 2. Downsides’re as obvious as a brick to the face, unfortunately.

Mastering any/all of those 3?

- Strong Boundaries = Other people’s words and actions will tell you about them, not about you.
- Triggers & Stressors = Can be completely eliminated, as well as chipped away at over time.
- Cognitive Distortions & Core Beliefs = Listening to your instincts is different than being a slave to them.

 

[SoulSeeker]

Thank you for your replies.

Who are these people who see you in this way rather than judging you on your behaviour?

The countless people who caused my abuse aren't enough? That was the point of my post, it's a long series of these moments in my life. That's one of my core wounds.

I know that writing "inevitably be seen as an oppressor" is an exaggeration but these attacks did happen and I'm not super comfortable with people dismissing that and telling me that my fear of being painted as evil is just a cognitive distortion, it doesn't come from nowhere.

Yes. Rationally, I know it's a cognitive distortion when I go towards generalization and yes I understand this isn't the truth and life is more in shades of gray. But this is how I feel even though it's not how I'm supposed to think, because it happened many times and that's how trauma works, telling myself this is irrational will not change anything, although I agree with you. I know it is irrational but I also feel the opposite. I have both sides happening in me. That's trauma, that's structural dissociation. That's why CBT often doesn't work for trauma. Trauma doesn't live in the rational pre-frontal cortex. I'm grateful for you taking time to reply but I hope you understand why this is a frustrating reply. I don't blame you though. It's hard to give advice on trauma, we reach a point where words/rationality don't really work, especially on a written media.

I'm just at a transitional stage where I'm coming out of fawn/freeze and reconnecting with my anger for the first time, I know it's not calibrated yet. And yes, it makes me more sensitive to signs and over-interpretation, I agree. In a way, I was made to be overly sensitive to this kind of things so I can be kept under control and now, any signs of people trying to control me or blame me for things I haven't done are extremely triggering. I used to freeze, now anger is coming up instead, which I see as an improvement but needs to be adjusted. I'm still not healed from this, I admit it. I also think I lack tools to face unfairness and idiocy. I don't know what to do with it and I don't have a belief system to help me. I face it unfiltered. Letting it go feels wrong. I feel like, if I let things go, I am really complicit in that case. So many people just look the other way when someone says something hurtful or acts badly.

I hope you guys understand that my post was a rant stemming from frustration and feelings of being unheard, I know it's raw and has irrationality and forbidden cognitive biases in it. If we filter trauma so it makes sense, we censor the irrational hurt parts of ourselves who are screaming to be heard. I know it can feel like "too much" but that's because it is, they have seen and felt "too much".

they won’t even blip your radar.

I'm starting to feel that way with some things but I'm still struggling with some kind of justice sensitivity (I have a bit of a justice warrior streak in me.) and some things still trigger me too much.

 

[arfie]

ahhhhhh. . . gender typing. . . ain't it grand? half of the world is this. the other half is that. i am often tempted to admire the simplicity of the dualism, but? ? ? good luck getting half of the world's population to fit a particular mold.

Why is it so hard to attack those who deserve it and to stop torturing innocent men?

in my case, that would be because the chronically guilty people (both genders) are too good at evasion and self defense. the innocent people are so much easier to target. i remain grateful for the decades of psychotherapy which helped me heal far enough to find better coping mechanisms than acting out and random targeting.

as for coping with the ongoing idiocy of gender casting? ? ? not my circus. not my monkey. i just find other places to be. hope healing happens here.

 

[user27357]

with you on a lot of the points you made. Wary of a few pitfalls you may have fallen into. As you say, people are complex, and stereo types are easy.
Personally, I think ALL gross generalizations are ALWAYS wrong. ;)
Serious again- I get it, there are members of the opposite sex that seem to think we should all get them cut off, and enough of us that probably should that it's hard to fully fault anyone that thinks that, except they are obviously jumping to a stereotype to accuse anyone of being a man that should be severed just because A) we are men, and B) they dont like us for whatever reason.
I don't thinks its as much being punished for other mens sins as it is accepting the guilty sentence on even a very small internal level.
Criticism filters wear out over time and start letting the bigger chunks through, I personally know this to be true. Working on one source at a time, one general type of criticism at a time, one gender at a time maybe? will get you to a place where street charity pit bulls won't even slow your pace as you walk by, thinking about the weather.
They say forgive and forget. I say forget and forgive. And maybe let the filter get some healing time.
Don't feel alone buddy, we all suffer a bit for the selfishness of other men. Not as much as some sufferers. I feel pretty lucky when I think about those victims.

 

[SoulSeeker]

Wary of a few pitfalls you may have fallen into

Please elaborate.

 

[user27357]

taking criticism to heart when the critic isn’t qualified to criticize you for one. i know this one well, cptsd also, a step mom abuser. my filter was leaking and all my critics got free rent in my head because of it.
Also a good guy. Also suffered because of selfish mens actions. My stepmother hated me and thought her weird cult would save me from having been born with a penis like her codependant drunken ex husband. Got out intact, as did you. Working on the psych damage for fifty f’n years but doing better. When i meet a church lady that hates me from word go i feel sorry for them now, as i should have all along.

 

[SoulSeeker]

I see. Yeah, it's hard. Good luck to you.
Somehow, the opinions of people I barely know often hurt me the most.

 

[Sideways]

Your anger is palpable. And, with a history of abuse, that’s often a massive achievement in the healing journey all by itself (like, I’m finally angry!!). We have a lot to be angry about.

Anger is a big, powerful emotion. Like all emotions, it tends to explode all around us, taking no prisoners, when we aren’t managing it well. But it can also be an awesome source for motivation, and healthy, value-driven action.

So, definitely not a “curb your anger” situation, so much as be curious about when it’s cropping up and why, and also helpful ways for you to move through it (rather than getting stuck in it.

Somehow, the opinions of people I barely know often hurt me the most.

Relate to this! I have a lot of interpersonal trauma in my past. Getting angry at people close to me was unsafe. Feeling appropriately angry when people close to me cause offence, or are unkind or untrustworthy, remains challenging.

For me, though, the issue at the root of that is primarily my relationship with myself. As that has steadily improved, my ability to have appropriate emotional responses to behaviour of people around me has improved.