Military Killing Is Not What Messes With Your Head

[RussH]

@Gunsmith, you pausing for a second was simple, natual reaction to what happened; self preservation is a primary response for us.
The fact that you acknowledged that it could happen to you, if you continued, and yet you did continue to go and help your brother in arms shows great courage.

You have nothing to be ashame of.

 

[InlovewithaPTSDvet]

Anthony your first post is insightful, thank you.

My husband has PTSD from his service in the Falklands. Much of what he experienced, he's protected me from. But he says similar, that much was about not being in a position to control or improve situations, so when ships were sinking for example, he was powerless to help.

He's often said it's difficult because there's not a single episode to account for his PTSD He has a friend on the other hand who was trapped on the Sheffield as it was sinking and left for dead.

What you suggest though makes sense. Little things seemingly on their own too i think contribute to onset of PTSD like just before he left for war he had his morgage application cancelled by the bank because the life insurers would no longer cover it............on the basis he might not come back. He had that to think about, along with the knowledge he had already lost friends, on the long trip down to war. That was just for starters....

 

[SeekingSerenity]

I can relate to the question posed by Anthony in the OP.

As a paramedic I'm often asked "whats the worst thing you have ever seen?". I think this is just as inappropriate as asking a soldier if he has killed someone.

I prefer not to dwell on what I have seen in the last 20 years as a paramedic. I prefer not to remember how many times I have been threatened, assaulted, shot at. I thank God that I have never developed PTSD.

But I do realise that people who ask those questions, have no frikken clue. So I don't get pissed off any more, I accept they have no idea, and maybe thats best for them.

My standard answer these days when asked what the worst thing is that I have ever seen: "My Payslip". Its not far from the truth ;)

 

[shimmerz]

its about watching humanity doing the worse things to one another, that really otherwise wouldn't occur.

This so resonated with me. Although I suffer from developmental trauma, I am aghast to hear what one human can justify in doing to another.

you pausing for a second was simple, natural reaction to what happened

Oh, if only our rational brains could process this properly. The shame of our inability to respond the way would would have liked to seems to be a core issue with PTSD as far as I have noticed.

Excellent post Anthony. Thank you.

 

[Buggles]

Anthony, your post really resonates with me! My partner was stationed with the UN Peace Corp in Rwanda and witnessed The massacre/genocide that occurred in '94. The fact that he was unable to act, to follow that very human instinct to protect, has just eaten him alive.
Thank you for your post.

 

[Danyel Lee Gaede]

besides the mistake of waking you up from a nightmare Most of us with PTSD unmedicated and not seeing therapy will close of from the world and be afraid of the world and cower in the corner. Weather a rape victim or a military person not dealing with the fear till later in PTSD this is the reality of our illness. We may be extra alert but even those who have the best and most training in combat with PTSD become cowering corner rats when we have an episode play out.

 

[shimmerz]

"whats the worst thing you have ever seen?".

People just don't get where the brain can go with a question like this. They have no concept. Like really....why would you want to know this?

 

[Danyel Lee Gaede]

to Puppy Love aka anthony reading your first post reminds me of a situation i do not like to tell people but here goes. In Iraq there area lot of wild dogs and they a real most cute when puppy but fugly when they are older and on my last deployment we were told if the dog was wild and no one claimed the dog we could shoot it, yet the first few deployments were not the case. I even remember a Marine who got busted because he tossed a puppy over the hill and the idiot filmed it and posted it via youtube. The locals believed to be saved by a western pig was worse then death and even another Muslim who did not know you or your family to help you against what they considered an act of alla would tarnish the soul. So after the bodies started to build from bombs and firefights even though we tried to clean up most the time brought the idea to these wild dogs that gunfire and explosions meant food. So they got used to war sounds being dinner bells and it was normal to see wild dogs trying to eat and carry off parts of people and there limbs. One night mission to secure an airport night vision revealed a whimpering young child maybe 2 or 3 years of age and the wild dog carrying by the neck this child off to feed on later or bring to a den of pups. We were on silent mission and when i pointed this out to my commander he gave the signal that meant "Not mission critical stay out of it and let it be" It really bothered me so as i pulled up the rear for security i slipped over and cut the dog from ear to ear silent and fast. slipping back to our formation a battle buddy noticed what i did and shrugged. the next day after the mission was completed we came almost the same way out that we came in as the Army unit that flew in took the airport as there's after we cleared it for them to land. We saw the childs body as if the child tried to get away near a dug in well and the sliced up dog 20 yards back. But the villagers would draw water and carry on there day as if the child was not there at all.I never found out if the child was from that village or a little nomad camp away from there but the fact that the child made it to a well and maybe waited there and the wounds from the dog were minor so i believe the child died from lack of water and the elements yet the village just ignored this child until he died then even after death. That is a part of the war i will never understand. even an enemy i would helkp out I sure

 

[Danyel Lee Gaede]

Gunsmith there are 3 reactions to traumatic stuff, not the two text book fight or flight. You can Fight, Flight, or freeze and most people freeze once during multiple missions. A Marine friend of mine told me a story of a buddy in his unit who was in a unit attacked at night and most the small unit were thoughts cut at night and bodies tossed in the sandbag trench the Marines had. I guess this one Marine slept so strong that by luck he was tossed in with the rest of the dead and covered by a few more bodies before he woke up. As he crawled out he grabbed the entrenching tool its like a mini folding shovel and beat to death the three guys who have been killing in silent the other marines. Now The enemy must have thought this young Marine to be a ghost since he crawled out of the dead hole and was covered with blood, so they fired no shots. Most the platoon was killed and the platoon next to his tent herd the gushing sound of the spade smacking a crushed skull and woke up then came out to see what had happened. But while he would have been given a good award and several medals for the bravery just a week later while on patrol a firefight broke out and this same marine froze. standing up never fired and never took cover after the dust settled and the enemy was all dead this young Marine dropped his rifle and ran the opposite direction from where the fight had just finished. So from the first event he only got a bronze star and they tossed him out for PTSD. This is all a story from a trusted Marine friend who told me so I might not have gotten all the facts correct but you get the drift.

 

[Love MyHusband]

The OP makes a lot of sense. I've never thought about it that way before. This will help me to be more understanding when my husband (Marine vet) does decide to open up to me (and himself) about what he went through. Thank you for this. :)

 

[Peach]

@InlovewithaPTSDvet My Army vet was in the Falklands as well. Wonder if they know each other. He has told me a handful of stories from that time; like when the HMS Antelope was under attack, he had just climbed aboard one of the helicopters that was evacuating the ship amidst the explosions and his chopper took some damage and barely made it to the beach.

Another he likes to tell is about one of the guys in his unit that was made to carry canned food instead of MREs, which added considerable weight to his rucksack. When they got geared up to move, because the packs were so heavy, everyone had to strap up the pack while laying atop it on the ground and then have two guys help pull them get to their feet. Well, this other guy wasn't exactly well liked anyway, so they would let him "turtle" for as long as possible. He got mad, until eventually deciding to just cool his heels. Gave everyone a good laugh and brought a sense of levity to an awful situation.

Similar situation with the life insurance, too. He was covered at some point in time, but after being deployed to Northern Ireland, there was no way he could afford the payments.

I've never asked my guy if he's killed anyone, I figure there is a very high liklihood that, after serving for 14 years as a soldier, he has...it's kinda in the job description. And I do know that if he has, he wouldn't feel bad about it. He has 99 problems that gave him PTSD, but that ain't one! As Anthony said, it's kill or be killed. I get it (as much as a civilian can). I could never see him as a murderer - he is a superhero! And as far as NI goes, they were terrorists and there is certainly no love lost.

This is clearly evidenced in the story he told me about 3 Irish extremists who were driving along a road, when the bomb they were attempting to move into a populated area, exploded, killing them all instantly. He and his AES dog cleared the area first to make sure it was safe for the others to get into the wreckage and do their jobs. After he was satisfied it was safe, he gave his dog free rein. The dog came bouncing back up to him a few minutes later, very excited about something he had found. He reached down to take whatever the dog had brought him. Turned out to be one of the terrorists ears. He laughed his ass off, and to this day, it still gives him a mighty good tickle when he thinks about it.

When he told me that story, he seemed to be a little worried that I would think him heartless or disgusting for having that reaction. I have no negative feelings towards him for that. I know people in professions like his, along with police, firefighters, paramedics, medical examiners, etc. all need to have a morbid sense of humor. My reaction was more 'eww,' where his is based on having seen what those bombs were capable of doing and loving the karmic justice of them being killed by their own stupidity before they could maime or kill an innocent bystander who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Pebbles5280]

Thank you for posting this. My NavyDoc is a Combat Vet and I have much to learn about PTSD and being a supporter. Threads like this one are very helpful and I greatly appreciate you sharing.