Let's Do This Mental Health Language Thing Then

[Friday]

Rip me to pieces if it suits you.

Since you did ask ;)

One thing I've noticed about you, is that you seem to have an intense aversion to talking about your trauma... Under it's own terms. I've watched you latch onto almost anything and everything that isn't directly related to your trauma, things that are -at best- very tangential, and often diametrically opposed.

One of the reasons I'm mostly on this site, instead of the combatPTSD forum is that while I picked up this ever so lovely disorder during those years, I've added a lot of other bullshit on as well; but the main reason is that I am extremely averse to talking about it. This site? Let's me talk about other stuff. Things that are tangential to the traumas that rip my spine out through my chest cavity (metaphor :p). Combat being 1:2 that does that. This site lets me take a BIG step back, and work on what I am capable of working on. Whether it's smaller traumas, or my f*cked up life, or disorder specific stuff that doesn't give a damn what trauma you've been through, it's just PTSD.

So, on the one hand? Regardless of what your motivation is in latching onto anything and everything that's not your actual trauma history (and I have no idea your reasons why you do this, assuming the premise), I get being reeeeeally f*cking averse.

On the other hand? If you/me/anyone is actually trying to understand and cope with our specific trauma history? It's both extremely difficult to do in the first place -for most of us, right? pretty sure nearly all of us can agree on that!- but made even harder when people who *dont* have that trauma history mob on and make it impossible to understand by mixing it up with everything else, because they're avoiding their own trauma. >.< Or any other reason, really. It really doesn't matter why someone's doing it, only that they are, when you're on the other side of the line and it's your specific trauma and the aspects that are a part of it. I don't want to use the rape vs miscounted change thing, here, because real heavy duty cap T trauma is ALL big-f*cking-deal. None of it is miscounted change. But the exact same misunderstanding happens, because it's also all very different. There's a difference between CSA & Combat & DV & KR & all of it. PTSD? PTSD is pretty simple & straightforward. (Snicker. I just said that! Feel free to smack me with it later when I'm griping about this damn disorder.) It's trauma itself that gets complicated.

One of the things I loooooooove about this site is that the focus is PTSD. All hands on deck. Doesn't matter what your trauma(s) is/was/were. It's this damn disorder and how the f*ck do we sort it??? It means that we can all really, really help each other. It means that there are soooooo many different perspectives, and paths to the same goal. It's a truly phenomenal resource. Regardless of where you're coming from, where are you now? It's that BIG step back.

But when taking a step closer? IMO you're not, when you're looking at everything that isn't your own shit. And you run into friction from people when you do that, who are trying to better understand their own shit.

Also IMO; Nothing wrong with taking a step to the side! Flanking works. But only if you're aware you're doing it. Just like taking a step back works. But only if you're aware that A is not B & Up is not Down, that what you're looking at are letters and directions.

Anyhow. You asked, & that's what I see.

 

[shimmerz]

This is much more helpful than Anon's posting. So let's get at it. Let me qualify by stating that I am not typing this in a defensive or I need to explain myself role. I am actually trying to get at how trauma and its affects can have a huge impact on future generations. And how that feels. And how to take in the pain of seeing your children's lives derailed in tragic ways.

You spoke Friday, just the other week about how you would throw yourself in front of a bus to save your child. That is a physical act. Protecting our children does not just take on physical aspects. When I stupidly married the man that I did, who beat the shit out of my kids, brainwashed them, had and has no thought about how his actions affect them... well, throwing myself in front of a bus for them seems easier somehow.

And yes, I did ask. I want this out. The air cleared. I just would prefer a straight up, this is what it is conversation about it. I appreciate your not hiding behind a mask and putting across a clear set of issues.

One thing I've noticed about you, is that you seem to have an intense aversion to talking about your trauma... Under it's own terms.

Not sure if you have read my diary, but that is where I talk about my trauma. On the board I ask questions to help me deal with the aftermath that my children are going through in order to better understand
1. What will be helpful for them in this moment
2. How to hold onto my mental health while this is happening
3. Holding onto my mental health so that I can be there if they start to get what is going on and have questions

I've watched you latch onto almost anything and everything that isn't directly related to your trauma, things that are -at best- very tangential, and often diametrically opposed.

Not sure about the diametrically opposed but it may seem like what I post about is not directly related to my trauma. And perhaps that is true. It is more about how to be a good mother and support my children the best way I know how to given what I know about what has happened and is happening to them. Do I stand back (which is super hard), do I make comments (which hasn't helped in the past) or do I try to understand, in a meaningful way what has happened to them and dance the dance of being still until they are 'ready'.

Has all of this been a trauma for me? These things that have related to my children? I haven't decided yet. I am focusing more on how this has affected them.

So, on the one hand? Regardless of what your motivation is in latching onto anything and everything that's not your actual trauma history (and I have no idea your reasons why you do this, assuming the premise), I get being reeeeeally f*cking averse.

Well, I could see how you could come to that conclusion perhaps. Mostly because I don't share certain things. Like my oldest son, who has CPTSD, whose girlfriend killed herself.dead the night before his birthday four weeks ago. Yep. Funeral and everything. I won't get into why.... this is the first one that has killed herself, but he has left ruin after ruin after ruin of the women he hooks up with. Their lives have been destroyed.

-at best- very tangential,

Tangential? No. There is nothing erratic about by posts. They have to do with specific issues that come up in my life that I am desperately seeking to better myself in knowledge about. Yes, my children are adults, but they are still my children. And I was a part of this. The least I can do is try to understand how to help them if and when they crash and burn, if they want me to.

IMO you're not, when you're looking at everything that isn't your own shit.

This is actually my shit.... here and now. My shit, my children's shit, my grandchildren's shit. All of our shit. Because that is the nature of trauma. It runs downhill. From the elders onto the youngers. They are bathed in the shit. Doused in it. That's what happens when you marry an abusive piece of kak. And that is on me. And I am paying the price and so are my children because I was ignorant of family dynamics for most of my life. Now that I know these dynamics exist, I am going to understand what I feel I need to. And if people don't understand why I am trying to get to something in my head, that is okay. I am very capable of knowing what I need to get at and am not reliant on whether someone else 'gets it'.

Anyhow. You asked, & that's what I see.

I did. And appreciate the honest response. And after this post you still may not get it. And that is fine. But please, do understand, our traumas and choices because of our traumas do not stop at us if we have children. Nor do our jobs as parents. And protecting and supporting them isn't just about buses.

 

[joeylittle]

Would you mind explaining this to me? I am not quite sure I understand. If you don't mind, can you package that around my experience with the Catatonia and the lack of a Schizophrenia diagnosis.

I can try...Can you tell me (so I can be in the right era) approximately when your experience with this happened? Year-wise.

And does that disagreement need to become the gift that keeps giving? Or should it be more like I disagree and let's drop it?

I understand where you are coming from. But, it's a true thing that we can't control other people's actions - only our own. We don't control their reactions either. Clearly - you wanted the anon poster to say 'OK, we disagree, let's drop it'. And, they did not. At that point your choices are:

1. Accept that they've got something going on with their POV that doesn't have to do with you - and ignore them.
2. Continue to articulate your position and hope (?) they change their mind, or
3. Put down a boundary. When/if they break it or won't accept it, walk away and go to option #1

This is not the same as in real life, when we can't sometimes walk away. This is the internet, where we get to choose how and when we interact.

The only reason I'm continuing on this particular topic is it's relevance to your bigger question about language. As you've said to me before, we can be on different sides of the fence when it comes to language used to describe things - especially clinical descriptors in re: mental health. It's probably one of my most annoying (helpful?) features - I'm a language person, and sometimes to a fault. I go through options 1, 2, 3 (above) myself, often. I do it here, with my doctors, with my students, in life, at work, in my politics, my health...any topic. And I have a real achilles heel, in that - at some point - it can become personal when it does not need to be. This site has been super-helpful to me in that regard; not just when I turned admin, but even before - practicing knowing where my stuff ends and someone else's stuff begins, and knowing that I don't need to engage if I'm banging my head against the wall.

And: accepting that someone else has a problem and ignoring them or tuning them out is not necessarily the same as tolerating their problem or being forced to put up with it. It can be the same, in a life situation where you can't extricate yourself immediately. But on the internet, extrication is always just a click away. And you absolutely don't have to agree with me - I'm sharing my perspective on this because I find it helpful in handling my own self, and keeping my (dis)stress levels way down.

OK. Back to the main, main thrust - do you mind sharing the years that you were dealing with the catatonia/schizophrenia thing? It affects the answer a lot. If you don't want to, even knowing the decade(s) would be helpful.

 

[shimmerz]

do you mind sharing the years that you were dealing with the catatonia/schizophrenia thing?

2007 through 2013. In 2013 I gave up on doctors altogether.

 

[shimmerz]

Clearly - you wanted the anon poster to say 'OK, we disagree, let's drop it'.

Well, that is not entirely true. Because the poster was anonymous, I had no option to ignore their postings. I think that makes the ground a little unleveled. So what I need to do instead, because there is no 'person' involved, is have their comments in my face.

So does that mean that I should no longer read any anon comments in case this person continues to share their insights about me with the board? Has anon been asked to ignore my comments? Ignore my posts? Or is this just about me? And if so, why is that?

 

[Gs172003]

This is much more helpful than Anon's posting. So let's get at it. Let me qualify by stating that I...

Shimmerz I get it. I have three adult kids that were impacted and all three in very different ways. I will have to live with that the rest of my life.

 

[anonymous]

I am a different anonymous from the one who attacked you, just want to point that out first.

I don't think that the words are important. They always seem to me, like labels. I don't believe labels can help with healing. We are wayyyyy behind in terms of truly knowing how to heal the human holistically. When we drop the labels I believe things will become clearer. I don't much support western medicine and believe that traditional Chinese ways are much more helpful. I think labels complicate things that are probably, quite simple. We're just not seeing that yet.

 

[Gs172003]

Passive aggressive and hiding under Anonymous? If I knew you I would absolutely return the favour of...

Personally I'd use the report function but that's just me.

 

[shimmerz]

Personally I'd use the report function but that's just me.

I did. It wasn't helpful.

 

[shimmerz]

We are wayyyyy behind in terms of truly knowing how to heal the human holistically.

Yes, I agree with this. It was actually a trance master that helped me kick the catatonia. He didn't require that I be schizophrenic in order to help me. ;) And I appreciated that.

 

[anonymous]

Shimmerz you are so right, healing doesn't require labels, it doesn't speak that language :)

 

[Justmehere]

What follows next is quite a mess of words so please disregard if not helpful:

Someone can call me a "looney toon," and I wouldn't much be bothered if I knew they loved and cared for me, meant it in a way to validate me and my pain, I was perhaps joking around using that term too.

I have also had people use the most PC and terrible accurate mental health terms and had it feel like a dehumanizing degrading insult that took away my voice.

Language matters. Context and intent matters.

Here on the boards, if someone gets very particular about how they have a condition and others don't because the DSM or Wikipedia or whatever and they react for strongly that I would expect to someone using that term... I figure that there is likely more to the reaction than just a simple mislabeling error and opportunity to educate someone else.

There is simply no way we are all going to agree on what are or are not the right words and which labels belong on whom and etc. Just not going to happen - and I don't think it should happen. The different perceptions and perspectives are all part of the process, the journey.

I shared this in a different thread recently that I remember one particular post I made about an inner child letter. I mentioned I referred to my inner kid and someone suggested I used more kind language towards myself. For them, "kid" or "kiddo" was slightly an insult. For me, it was a term in endearment. We traded messages about it and our differning opinions on "kid" vs "child" didn't change, but I got to learn something about them and myself, and there was a lot of validating the importance of both perspectives.

I think it's really important to try to agree on whatever we can, and support people getting their voices back and using words and language the best they know how to describe their own pain --- and to remember that strong stances about trauma and he language used to describe it usually comes from experiences and pain that we should have never had to go through and then struggle to put into words in the first place.