Looking for thoughts on these memories please - conflicting internal views driving me crazy

beaneeboo

Diamond Member
This is embarrassing and hard to reach out for feed back. But it's something which has become a bit obsessive (thinking about/ trying to understand) for me, because I have different parts of me holding different and conflicting views about it, and their different, opposing reactions are tearing me apart (i have OSDD).

The whole issue around this memory is how I process it when I have 2 or more different opposing views/ feelings / states around it. My parts seem to be stuck on this memory, which isn't overt / bad in severity but we don't seem to be able to move forward with processing other things, until there's some agreement on how we view and understand this.

What do I want to know from others here? Your thoughts on how you see this situation. I know people can't tell me what my dad's intentions were in this particular instance. But what is your initial gut reaction (if any) about what I describe. If you put yourself or a child you know in the same described situation what do you feel/ think?

I'm 4/ 5 years old. My brother is 7/8. This is something that would happen before/at bed time (wasn't unusual). My dad would get over-excited / hyped up (unhinged energy), would get naked (no idea why) and start whipping my brother and I with his belt. We would be sat on the bed, my brother and I would be up against the wall at the head end. My dad was standing at the foot of the bed. He seemed to get enjoyment from it. I remember it was like anger and laughter/ fun all mixed together from him.

My younger parts remember I was cowering behind my brother as much as possible and closing my eyes. My brother would be trying to shield us from the belt. I was confused and scared. Didn't understand what was going on, wanted it to stop and just clung to my brother. I don't remember any pain from the belt.

Other parts of me are very dismissive about this memory meaning anything or or about it being significant in any way. I don't have clear memories of what was said by my dad - it's more the sense of things. But my dad also did this in the context of it being a kind of game. We were supposed to be joining in with it I think?. Playing along? I really don't know, especially when i wanted to get away. He did it anyway. . But these other parts of me tell the younger parts and me that I'm making a mountain of a mole hill, it wasn't really that bad and I've got it all wrong. They are very scathing of my younger parts.

We've told T about the memory, about the dilemma going on inside around remembering it and finding it hard to know what significance it has, or hasn't. Some of my protector parts have great power over my whole system (they can cause alot of havoc and pain if things feel threatening to them, particularly memories). So when we told T about this memory, we told him from the perspective of those parts. So they would be heard and taken seriously which is what they want. I.e - here's a memory but it's not that bad, you've understoodit wrong, you'rebad etc. And T and I agreed atm we have to hear those parts and validate their thinking/ feeling, even if we don't agree with it, over other parts. Because of wanting to keep the lines of communication open with them and not invoke an almighty lashback which is what they are used to doing. He's let me know we can tell the parts who are scathing we don't agree with them, but we still need to acknowledge hear and validate them.

The problem is, my other younger parts are now really upset because they feel they've done wrong, they shouldn't have said anything, these parts feel unheard. T was talking about the memories at another session using words like my dad was being 'playful', my dad being 'excited' etc . But there were words I wouldn't use tu describe what happened. My younger parts feel very ashamed and embarrassed and misunderstood when T was describing parts of this memory with those words (T knows) because they feel perhaps they are wrong about what happened. Because T didn't really say/emphasise what happened was wrong and bad, they feel ashamed. They feel like my other parts who have been telling them they are wrong for thinking and feeling that way, are in fact correct. Which makes them bad. Other parts feel strongly that what happened shouldn't have happened and it was clearly wrong.

Me (adult me, host me) is going crazy listening to everyone, having such conflicting feelings arise about it all. I feel like I'm supposed to know what to think/ feel about this and to educate and help my parts about it all to gain some sort of shared understanding. But I'm so so so so confused and this dynamic is really hard to manage.

I usually don't ask for feed back from others re opinions on memories, as I know the dangers with that. But this time I'm actively interested in hearing what others think. I'm not looking for people to tell me I'm right or wrong. Just, what are your gut feelings about the scenes I described. What would you think/ feel about it if it was happening to a kid you knew?
 
Games, fun, excitement are things that everyone who is doing the game experiences.
So this was not a game or fun or exciting.

It was a parent inflicting some thing on his children that was odd, bizarre and clearly for his satisfaction only. Your and your brothers discomfort (only using that word for gentleness but please replace if it doesn't work) did not matter to him at all. He was ruling that interaction.

Was it sexual? It sounds it. And this is where things get confusing too because , I think there is a category of sexualised behaviour that isn't contact CSA but is weird and odd and horrible. And this sounds like that?

I can understand the backlash. Because he would have gaslighted you into the situation . He would be saying this is fun, when it wasn't. So he built that internal conflict you have now.

But it wasn't ok. It was bad. It was odd. It was dismissing you and your feelings and your needs. And it was placing his needs and whatever the heck he got out of that above your wellbeing.
 
Dunno if this is helpful at all as a response, but when reading about your dad's behaviour, my brain is like "OMFG... what on earth...?!"

My go-to thoughts are did your father have a known or susupected mental illness? Was his behaviour this bizarre/ inappropriate in other situations too? How did your mother react to this? Was his behaviour normalised, so that wildly inappropriate behaviour was paired with confusing non-reactions?

My response is that I'm not surprised that you and your parts feel confused and conflicted about this experience. I feel conflicted and confused just reading about it!
 
I have different parts of me holding different and conflicting views about it, and their different, opposing reactions are tearing me apart
a standard piece of my personal self is that i seem to feel more than one way about nearly everything. ditto for perspectives. i seem to see everything from more than one point of view. i believe --just believing-- that this trait is part of a potent analytical talent. used well, this trait helps me wiggle out of just about any conundrum and have even earned big bucks for the results. used badly, it drives me and everyone around me crazier than ever. it carries down proverbial rabbit holes where i am so far detached from reality that i find myself talking to mushrooms and decks of cards.

as for my opinion of your father's behavior? sounds just plain crazy to me. i don't invest much time in analyzing fecal matter. compost and move on. healing hopes for all. no exceptions.
 
Games, fun, excitement are things that everyone who is doing the game experiences.
So this was not a game or fun or exciting.
Ok, this is interesting to hear for me
It was a parent inflicting some thing on his children that was odd, bizarre and clearly for his satisfaction only. Your and your brothers discomfort (only using that word for gentleness but please replace if it doesn't work) did not matter to him at all. He was ruling that interaction.
I think fear would be the word.

'He was ruling that interaction'. Yes that's correct, he was.
Was it sexual? It sounds it. And this is where things get confusing too because , I think there is a category of sexualised behaviour that isn't contact CSA but is weird and odd and horrible. And this sounds like that?
I had considered this before but it made me feel bad, so I didn't give it more thought. I sometimes wonder, if I had a child protection person come judge a scenario like this, what they would say...

I can understand the backlash. Because he would have gaslighted you into the situation . He would be saying this is fun, when it wasn't. So he built that internal conflict you have now.
This is like woah in my head. New concept.

But it wasn't ok. It was bad. It was odd. It was dismissing you and your feelings and your needs. And it was placing his needs and whatever the heck he got out of that above your wellbeing.
With this particular memory, and some others, I've realised how important language and terminology is when talking about things which happened, feelings etc. I'm writing this thread now because parts of me feel upset that T didn't validate this memory in the same way you have managed to do here in your post. I understand why he didn't (he was trying to avoid a bigger back lash for me to deal with from other parts). But I think the language he used afterwards to reflect back things I said (like 'excited' and 'playful' and my dad's behavior being 'unusual ') just made my younger parts feel so unseen, like they weren't believed and that he really isn't capable of understanding. Because that language made them feel it was played down.

Is whipping your kids with a belt whilst naked when they are clearly scared 'unusual ' / 'playful' / being 'excited'? If it's more than that, what is it? At what point would it be called abuse? Or would it not?

I literally have NO radar/ concept of how to label this.
 
I don’t think this will help, but all of my memories of my abuse I am conflicted over. For every memory I have where part of me knows it was wrong, another part of me knows that it wasn’t wrong because…
It does help a bit. At least, this is something recognised by others and that someone can relate to. Feel less alone in that so that's good.

How do you deal with that back and forth conflicting dynamic @Sideways ? It's doing my head in and sometimes it feels insurmountable
 
Dunno if this is helpful at all as a response, but when reading about your dad's behaviour, my brain is like "OMFG... what on earth...?!"
thanks @Ecdysis ... it is helpful. I haven't talked with anyone on the outside world, other than T, about anything to do with my dad, like ever. I have had no feedback, other that Ts, about it and i have no concept (in relation to myself) of what is normal, what is abusive, what's just 'horse play' and when something is bad but I'm unable to see it...

My go-to thoughts are did your father have a known or susupected mental illness?
I think we as a family suspected that he clearly had big issues.. but i wouldn't know how to categorise that...
Was his behaviour this bizarre/ inappropriate in other situations too?
Yes. I do remember him getting me to things which go beyond questionable. But there were things which were similar in dynamic to what i described above. Where it wasn't clear. Things like molding plasticine to my brother's penis (aged? 8/9), then hyping the dog up to encourage him to bite it off. Yeah i know, twisted. He also tried regularly to touch my genitals at bed time from i can't remember what age until late teens. But again, it wasn't in an overly sexual way when he did it. It wasn't clear to me what it meant, what he was aiming for (he clearly got a kick), and that he didn't stop when i asked. Other incidents too...
How did your mother react to this?
my parents are divorced and lived separately since i was 2. All these interactions happened away from her at his. He had a partner who was very abusive to me (emotionally). She conveniently never got involved at bed time. Pretty sure she was outside the door when he got me to 'touch him' in the bath when i was really young. But, my protector parts tell me I'm wrong about that.
Was his behaviour normalised, so that wildly inappropriate behaviour was paired with confusing non-reactions?
I guess so? The only other person ihad to go by was his partner. And she hated me.
My response is that I'm not surprised that you and your parts feel confused and conflicted about this experience. I feel conflicted and confused just reading about it!
Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it

I hope you're doing OK 😊
 
a standard piece of my personal self is that i seem to feel more than one way about nearly everything. ditto for perspectives. i seem to see everything from more than one point of view. i believe --just believing-- that this trait is part of a potent analytical talent. used well, this trait helps me wiggle out of just about any conundrum and have even earned big bucks for the results. used badly, it drives me and everyone around me crazier than ever. i
I really relate to this.. the older I get, the more situations I'm in with others, the more how I see my brain works like this too.. and it can be difficult for others to work along side me because of it... that's just how I am though...
as for my opinion of your father's behavior? sounds just plain crazy to me. i don't invest much time in analyzing fecal matter.
That made me laugh!
 
Low on words but wanted to say I’m here with you as you process. I tend toward what Sideays said about conflict over all the abuse memories. I don’t think the point of working with parts is to convince them all that one of you is right but rather to huddle and validate and build on the strengths of each. Yea it’s hard, but I guess learning to allow and see the different perspectives of the parts *is* the work?
 
it can be difficult for others to work along side me because of it... that's just how I am though...
a functional beauty i find in the radical acceptance of how i am is that it frees up considerable resources for learning how to be better at being me. my psychoticks still make me difficult to work with at times, but i am getting quicker and better at making amends and those amends often work their way into a stronger and more functional working relationship. on my radar, i believe i have discovered that feelings are an unstable, multifaceted phenom by nature.
 
How do you deal with that back and forth conflicting dynamic @Sideways ? It's doing my head in and sometimes it feels insurmountable
Actually just acknowledging it is a breakthrough in itself. Not having that awareness of the conflict was the status quo for life up till now, so you can imagine what kind of havoc that’s been causing on your life, right!?

As I’ve worked through therapy, I’ve come across a lot of conflict like this tbh - I have conflicting emotions (and beliefs) in relation to my memories, relationships, values, goals. Hell, even the music I like or whether I’m hungry. I grew up being taught that emotional responses were either A or B, not A and B and C and… but reality turns out to be not like that at all.

It’s not only possible, but common, to love and hate the same person. To be proud of by and embarrassed about the same memory. To value something we also feel ashamed about. The list is endless.

Realising that? meant I could acknowledge and validate both perspectives rather than trying to find some kind of absolute truth. That makes space for coexistence and compromise.

With memories, it’s really important to validate the experiences and emotional responses of the part that actually experienced the event. First and foremost. Whatever any other part might think about it, I try and give some degree of precedence to the part that actually went through it as a starting point. And what they actually felt, with what they think/thought they should feel, very often takes time to tease out. It’s influenced strongly by survival instincts, and is unlikely to come out unless the part feels genuinely safe now.

But that’s also just a starting point. Because how that part feels about it now is very likely to be different, and continue changing, over time. Same goes for my other parts. How they felt last year about memory X will be different to how they feel next year about memory X.

Their opinions of what the child part should feel (or should have felt) may need to be aired, but in a way that protects the child part from their venting or anger or frustration.

As a rule of thumb with emotions - I try not to challenge them or struggle with them. And I also don’t try and assess the reasonableness of an emotion. Those are rational mind issues, and emotions aren’t rational, they just are. It’s far easier to simple acknowledge and make space for an emotion than it is trying to wrangle it into ‘one right and valid’ truth that all parts must accept.
 

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