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Sexual Assault My brain is trying to convince me of something that is probably false.

Nyoom

Learning
Hello all,


I wasn't really sure where to to with this one, but its a doozy, and lead to my first mental breakdown in a Wetherspoons bathroom... truly, I have become an adult.

So, as stated in prior posts here, I experienced COCSA, and have experienced a plethora of issues as a result, including but not limited to, issues with intimacy, memory issues, and doubting myself, my memories, my validity as a CSA survivor, etc. And, in January, a friend of mine while drunk triggered very unhappy emotions and memories in me due to behaving in a really horrible way towards my friends and my boyfriend, and ended up touching my privates repeatedly even after I told them to stop to try and get me to let go of them when I had to retrain them to stop them from breaking my partners kitchenware. This deeply upset me, and honestly, I still think about it months later, but have mostly recovered and decided to continue our friendship due to the specific circumstances (which I have wrote about in a post thread)

However, that brings me to the main issue I am having right now. So, a long time ago, I wanna say October November last year, I had a nightmare where I was pretending to be asleep during naptime during nursery. I actually have a memory of being in nursery the last day before I was moving away to a new area, when I was either about to turn 4 or actually 4, saying goodbye to my classmates and looking at our uniform which for some reason stuck in my mind throughout my life. So, I know I can actually remember very very brief moments from when I was that young. In this dream, I was in that same uniform, pretending to sleep, when a nursery worker came up behind me, rubbed me, and began touching my privates, only for a moment or two, but long enough to feel intentional, uncomfortable and wrong. When I woke up, I felt disgusted and confused, but no more than is typical with dreams like that, though I did feel more disturbed by the realism as, while I've dreamt up fictional rapes before, they tended to be completely outlandish, and set when I was a late teen/just turning 18, whereas this felt more real even if it was just a snippet. I assumed it was a weird trauma dream, but occasionally would think about it. More recently, though, I have been thinking about it more and more and it is causing me increasingly large amounts of anxiety. Because now I am worrying it was real, and its a repressed memory, but I have no way of confirming that either way. I believe this was most likely brought about my friends actions towards me, making me think about my trauma more than normal and backsliding a bit mentally, which lead to a snowball effect of me ruminating on my past more than I probably should be.

For context, I have a problem with uncertainty. I mean, I have OCD tendencies and potentially OCD in general, the whole thought process behind OCD tends to hinge entirely of uncertainty. So, I thought initially it was something like that. And I know my brain has made more outlandish claims in the past, that essentially weaponised the fact I can't remember most my childhood against me and tend to only remember in little bursts of memory which range from extremely vivid to literally out of body/dreamlike. But, idk if this is just me overthinking, but this seems different. Like, it's much more likely than any of the other types of false beliefs I've had about myself. I hear stories of people recovering traumatic memories all the time, but usually they have an external way of validating it happened. Heck, even with my COCSA experience I had external evidence beyond my own memory. But thats not the case here.

I do have an extremely overactive imagination so I am really hoping its just that, but I cannot shake the anxiety that what I dreamt about happened, especially since the dream was so much more grounded than other dreams like it, and the emotions were very strong. But I also think its totally impossible to prove and is unlikely it happened since the "memory" was so sudden. With prior traumas, I knew it happened logically, had memories of it even if most memory of it was fuzzy cos I avoided thinking about it as much as I could. I have completely erased some memories from my mind before, though. Namely, memories I forgot but my friend or sister remembers, like hiding in a closet during one of my mums mental breakdowns, or the fact the bullying I experienced was apparently much worse than I originally thought but I literally just blocked most of that period of time out. But, even then, I remembered parts of those traumas (like, I remember the milder bullying, and other breakdowns my mum had but not that specific one since they were on and off for most my life so they kinda mix together in my head unless something stand out happened). With the COCSA, I have a range of memories, with a range of how well I remember them, some grossly vivid, others not vivid at all. For a long time, I actively avoided thinking or recalling the memories to the point where I barely thought about it, but when faced with reminders of it I would have sudden and strong memories of it which would really upset me.

So, it doesn't make sense why I would have this one fragment of a memory, granted one that brings very vivid emotions but the memory itself isn't all that clear, and have 0 indication of thinking about it after when normally I usually have something. But perhaps that would be explained by age. Also, this could potentially explain the issues I have had with vaginal intimacy. I hate my vagina being touched, even before the January incident, unless I have a moment to prepare, and sometimes even then I jump. I had bad vaginismus for ages, and was majorly confused as to why since, as far as I remember, most the COCSA was oral and never involved vaginal or touching. (thats another thing, I have thought about if there was touching involved with the cocsa, but when I picture it it doesn't feel real at all, whereas this does cause a level of distress that is beyond the normal "ew what the f*ck brain" you might get at such a thought). But ultimately, I don't know. Part of me feels this is all just me trying to justify my trauma and trauma related emotions because (while I've been improving lately), I still struggle to view my COCSA as "real trauma". But I really have no clue and just feel really scared and worried about it and, try as I might, have been struggling to shake the idea. I don't really think it happened. But it might have.

I was wondering if anyone could provide insight into this. I don't want to think it's real but can't shake the worry it is. My partner has tried asking me what would change if it was real, how would it effect my life since I have already improved my mental health so much, to which I don't have an answer, but an answer to this still feels important. But its impossible to know for sure. Has anyone else experienced this? I assume they must have, I feel like this might actually be more common than I think. If so, what did you do about it?
 
dunno if this applies to your case, but my repressed fantasies often emerge as repressed memories, particularly in the areas where my mental illness is at odds with my hard-wired human needs. family would be the greater example in my own case. i estranged from my birth family in 1977, but the need for family remains. as a result, i often "remember" family attachments with people whom such intimacy never happened.

just saying. . .

steadying support while you sort your own case.
 
For me, my first memories came back via dreams. It was very confusing. The trigger for me was the breakdown of my first long term relationship when I was 24. Dealing with that and then these dreams. I felt like I was having a complete breakdown and didn't know what these dreams were. Bit by bit I put it together.

What helped with me was, despite all the doubt, there was a sense of "knowing". I was still seeking confirmation from someone else. Like "tell me if this is a memory or a dream". But no one can do that unfortunately.

What helped me realise is that it was a memory. It did happen. I now remember it. And I believe myself.
Because: why would I make it up? Why would it distress me so much? Dreams go. Memories stay. A dream is just a dream. Even if it is a horrible one. It goes.

I don't know if any of that resonates with you.
If it does, then know that it does get better.
 
dunno if this applies to your case, but my repressed fantasies often emerge as repressed memories, particularly in the areas where my mental illness is at odds with my hard-wired human needs. family would be the greater example in my own case. i estranged from my birth family in 1977, but the need for family remains. as a result, i often "remember" family attachments with people whom such intimacy never happened.

just saying. . .

steadying support while you sort your own case.
I definately don't think this is the case for me assuming I'm understanding what you mean. I don't desire... that sort of thing. Though, it could be argued that I desire a "legit" reason for my emotions because of how I tend to downplay my existing traumas.

For me, my first memories came back via dreams. It was very confusing. The trigger for me was the breakdown of my first long term relationship when I was 24. Dealing with that and then these dreams. I felt like I was having a complete breakdown and didn't know what these dreams were. Bit by bit I put it together.

What helped with me was, despite all the doubt, there was a sense of "knowing". I was still seeking confirmation from someone else. Like "tell me if this is a memory or a dream". But no one can do that unfortunately.

What helped me realise is that it was a memory. It did happen. I now remember it. And I believe myself.
Because: why would I make it up? Why would it distress me so much? Dreams go. Memories stay. A dream is just a dream. Even if it is a horrible one. It goes.

I don't know if any of that resonates with you.
If it does, then know that it does get better.
Thank you. Some of what you said resonates, but other things less so. With me, I only have the one dream, which replays in my head in little flashes when I am reminded of it. For a while, I didn't really think of the dream beyond the level of normal recollection I get with nightmares. It went away, more or less. But after my friend ended up touching me in the way they did, I ended up ruminating on my past, as well as that dream, more, which has made these intrusive images more frequent. I can't tell if its just OCD OCDing, since OCD intrusive thoughts can be extremely vivid, or if it is a legitimate thing that happened. And a part of me that I am deeply ashamed of almost wants it to be true, since I rarely see the trauma I know 100% happened to me as valid or serious enough to warrant the symptoms I've developed as a result. That part of me thinks if this is true, my trauma will finally be seen as "real". It sucks, it feels like I can't trust myself or my memories, or my perception of my memories. Feels like I'm going insane.
 
I don't desire... that sort of thing.

i use the term, "fantasies" quite loosely here. in the psychotic spin-offs of my own ptsd, i often find myself trapped in fantasies which repulse me. not quite flashbacks, but a bit more ??intense?? than intrusive thoughts. these would be the ones i all too easily confuse with lord knows what.
 
i use the term, "fantasies" quite loosely here. in the psychotic spin-offs of my own ptsd, i often find myself trapped in fantasies which repulse me. not quite flashbacks, but a bit more ??intense?? than intrusive thoughts. these would be the ones i all too easily confuse with lord knows what.
Ah, I see what you mean now. Yeah, I think it could be something like that. It's definitely the most vivid and real feeling though. It's sorta on that borderline of "this feels really real but it also doesn't seem likely to be real". It's confusing, part of me is wondering if it even matters.
 
I understand SO much of what you've written about. I relate to alot. And possibly most of all the feeling of trying to put bits of information about possible trauma which may or may not have happened which, if true, could be the piece of the puzzle which explains the trauma responses for you...

My take on what you've said is this:
And a part of me that I am deeply ashamed of almost wants it to be true, since I rarely see the trauma I know 100% happened to me as valid or serious enough to warrant the symptoms I've developed as a result.
I feel like what you've written here is really key. This is where the work is which is tangible (not easy but tangible). You have memories but the tricky bit for you is seeing HOW these relate to the problems you experience today, as you don't see what youremember as valid or serious enough. (I have experienced EXACTLY this also in relation to COCSA).

But actually, getting support to reframe and redefine your experience which you DO know happened may be where the work is at. Because if you can really really pick apart what you do remember happened - in whatever form that memory takes - you can begin to start looking at why that hurt you. And how you were violated and how that violation has caused developmental trauma - from what I know about what you've said. There are so many subtleties in our trauma that cause the problems we experience, which can't be defined by looking outside of us e.g at the Internet for definitions. That definition has to come from you and your understanding of your experience. And that comes from deep work with someone (a T?) who, if skilled in this area, can help you redefine your understanding so that you feel valid in your experience.

That part of me thinks if this is true, my trauma will finally be seen as "real". It sucks, it feels like I can't trust myself or my memories, or my perception of my memories. Feels like I'm going insane.
Oh I get this so so much. And it's not wrong to want that dream to be real so you can valid. But again, it's wishing for something which is outside of your knowledge and control at this time to confirm to you what your experience has been. Which, right now, is impossible.

I think that is this dream were to be a repressed memory, your body will let you know what this is, if and when you are truly ready. I don't think right now there's necessarily anything you can do to be ready. So it's a process you're going to have to trust will happen if it's going to. But there's no way of wishing that to happen (and I know equally you don't want that either 😔). In fact going round and round with the questioning only hurts you more and more. Again, because what you do know IS enough. You're just missing the links as to how you got to where you are in your life with it now. I know this from my own experience.

Final message: what you remember is enough. It's how you're seeing it which it likely where the difficulty is and it's this which needs reframing because this is something you can control more, over time, with hard work and patience and genuine want.

I know none of this is easy from my own experience and I talk as if I'm sorted - which I far from am. But sometimes it's easier to see in someone else's story?

Go gently...
 
I was wondering if anyone could provide insight into this. I don't want to think it's real but can't shake the worry it is. My partner has tried asking me what would change if it was real, how would it effect my life since I have already improved my mental health so much, to which I don't have an answer, but an answer to this still feels important. But its impossible to know for sure. Has anyone else experienced this? I assume they must have, I feel like this might actually be more common than I think. If so, what did you do about it?
No childhood trauma or childhood sexual assault, here.

I also have very clear memories of my childhood down to about 2yos, and the occasional fragment from before age 2. (That’s normal for military brats. Civilian kids usually start coding memories around kindergarten.)

I used to pretend to be asleep during nap time ALL the durn time. Because being awake was punished. So I would pretend to be asleep when I was completely awake. I still have very clear memories of what the childcare workers were doing DURING those nap times. (Phone calls, mostly. Also conversations, bathroom trips, eating food they didn’t eat in front of us, reading books & magazines, filling out paperwork, checking on kids waking up or in distress, etc.).

So as far as “could” a kid fake being asleep during nap time? Sure. I certainly did.
 
No childhood trauma or childhood sexual assault, here.

I also have very clear memories of my childhood down to about 2yos, and the occasional fragment from before age 2. (That’s normal for military brats. Civilian kids usually start coding memories around kindergarten.)

I used to pretend to be asleep during nap time ALL the durn time. Because being awake was punished. So I would pretend to be asleep when I was completely awake. I still have very clear memories of what the childcare workers were doing DURING those nap times. (Phone calls, mostly. Also conversations, bathroom trips, eating food they didn’t eat in front of us, reading books & magazines, filling out paperwork, checking on kids waking up or in distress, etc.).

So as far as “could” a kid fake being asleep during nap time? Sure. I certainly did.
Unfortunately, you'd be the exception here. Most people don't have memory from before the age of 3, and even then memories before the age of 6-7 tend to be patchy and unclear. In my case, I have memory issues anyway (though mostly short term), from ADHD and the other traumatic events that are unrelated to this one. So, in general, my memories tend to be fuzzy, with a few instances of vivid ones. For example, with the sexual abuse I faced when I was 6, I can still physically feel some of the things he did to me. But other memories of the sexual acts are fuzzy, out of body, even. Other things like memories of me needing to call the ambulance for my dad having a seizure in which his skull split open, I remember in an out of body way, or I remember them so vividly it makes me feel like the same terrified kid back then thinking my dad was gonna die because he cracked his head open and there was blood. Plus, as mentioned, I have completely blocked out some parts of my life that others have told me happened but don't really recall.

So, while you have clear memories from that young (my mum also has a few, she was also an army brat lol), most people don't, and even if they did, I have a shit, inconsistent memory anyway lol. 3 is that age where the brain just about starts storing memory in most people, making the sensations and images I'm experiencing all the more confusing, since 3 is such a fragile age in terms of memory formation. It makes it hard to tell if it's true or not.

The main issue for me at this point, is that I have had issues with bodily reactions to being touched vaginally throughout my entire life. I only recently got over that and even now I still have some issues. Part of me feels that these set of imagery and sensations would explain these issues I've had and continue to have. But, as my boyfriend has pointed out before, those anxieties could be based on the association I have with the child on child sexual abuse I experienced, knowing oral is sexual and so is vaginal, therefore vagina touch = bad in trauma brain. Not to mention, the normal anxiety that people have with that stuff would make it worse. But I really don't know. I am leaning towards the idea it didn't actually happen because of the nature of the images and feelings, but it could explain some things.

Also, this is probably just me being insecure and most likely wasn't intentional, so I don't want to seem accusatory or anything, but your wording with the "no childhood trauma or CSA here" felt a bit hurtful, since as I described, I went through textbook COCSA which I struggle to accept as "real" trauma, not to mention the other traumatic things I've been through that I haven't really mentioned here (mostly cos, despite the fact I've been through more "traditional" forms of abuse and trauma, the COCSA has always been the one that impacted me most so is constantly on my mind). COCSA has been shown to be able to cause just as much emotional trauma as regular CSA, studies comparing victims of sibling sexual abuse and parental sexual abuse showing no significant difference in symptoms, and others comparing clinical symptoms from COCSA to clinical symptoms from regular CSA and found COCSA survivors are just as likely to cause depression, anxiety, eating disorders and PTSD, etc.

Again, probably not your intention and I could just be reading too far into things, but it might be beneficial to think about phrasing in the future since I kinda freaked out at that first sentence lol
 
I understand SO much of what you've written about. I relate to alot. And possibly most of all the feeling of trying to put bits of information about possible trauma which may or may not have happened which, if true, could be the piece of the puzzle which explains the trauma responses for you...

My take on what you've said is this:

I feel like what you've written here is really key. This is where the work is which is tangible (not easy but tangible). You have memories but the tricky bit for you is seeing HOW these relate to the problems you experience today, as you don't see what youremember as valid or serious enough. (I have experienced EXACTLY this also in relation to COCSA).

But actually, getting support to reframe and redefine your experience which you DO know happened may be where the work is at. Because if you can really really pick apart what you do remember happened - in whatever form that memory takes - you can begin to start looking at why that hurt you. And how you were violated and how that violation has caused developmental trauma - from what I know about what you've said. There are so many subtleties in our trauma that cause the problems we experience, which can't be defined by looking outside of us e.g at the Internet for definitions. That definition has to come from you and your understanding of your experience. And that comes from deep work with someone (a T?) who, if skilled in this area, can help you redefine your understanding so that you feel valid in your experience...

...I think that is this dream were to be a repressed memory, your body will let you know what this is, if and when you are truly ready. I don't think right now there's necessarily anything you can do to be ready. So it's a process you're going to have to trust will happen if it's going to. But there's no way of wishing that to happen (and I know equally you don't want that either 😔). In fact going round and round with the questioning only hurts you more and more. Again, because what you do know IS enough. You're just missing the links as to how you got to where you are in your life with it now. I know this from my own experience.
Thank you for all of this, I've read through it a couple times and completely agree. I have wondered if my anxiety and physical reactions to being touched around my privates could be in relation to this, since the COCSA I experienced was, to my memory, mostly oral and never involved touching. Not to be graphic, but even now, I sometimes struggle with that specific sort of intimacy whereas other areas of my body are fine (except the mouth, I feel nauseous even thinking about trying that). So part of me thinks, maybe this is related to that dream, and maybe it was more real than I thought. But ultimately, I think it could just be due to the normal fear of sex that most people my age have, mixed with sex bringing bad associations, since while vaginal stuff still brings lots more anxiety than other forms of sex, I struggled with all forms at one point.

For now, I am going to try and lay my ruminations to rest and focus on the things I do know happened. As you say, if this is a real event, it'll be a process and a process I likely won't have much direct influence of, and ultimately I think trying to dig around my memories and trying to figure out if it happened will do more damage than good based on what I've read about memory and how they work. Working through the things I know have happened will probably do me a world more good than trying to figure out if this specific thing happened so I could feel more valid for a bit (and knowing me, I would immediately find ways to invalidate that trauma like I've done with nearly every single traumatic thing that I've experienced lmaoooo)

I am starting to think it would be good if I go back to therapy and perhaps one specialising in this sort of area. I have had trauma counselling before and my T was lovely and very helpful, but that was when I was dealing with a lot of other stuff at the time so I don't think I really explored my childhood as much as I would now. I also wanna say thanks in general, I've seen you around quite a few posts and your responses and posts in regards to COCSA tend to be really empathetic and relatable. Every post I read from you just gets me thinking "they just like me fr" lol. It's very comforting to see :)
 
Again, probably not your intention and I could just be reading too far into things,
Nope. Not my intention. As I was describing MY childhood as being trauma & CSA free.

So, while you have clear memories from that young (my mum also has a few, she was also an army brat lol), most people don't, and even if they did, I have a shit, inconsistent memory anyway lol. 3 is that age where the brain just about starts storing memory in most people, making the sensations and images I'm experiencing all the more confusing, since 3 is such a fragile age in terms of memory formation. It makes it hard to tell if it's true or not.
Yep. Populations vary. Military brats tend to start coding memories at their first (or second) major move. Civilian kids is/was far too broad a category to lump people into; as there are those who stay home until 5yo, those who are in daycare from day 1, those who start preschool at 3, those who belong to travelling families (circus to diplomats), and dozens of other subcultures. All with different norms for when long term memories begin to code.

My only real point was that, speaking as someone who clearly remembers that time period in their life? With no abuse or trauma clouding things? It’s entirely possible/rational that you’re remembering a fragment from the same time period.

Whether or not the person was abusing you or checking to see if you needed a new diaper or trip to the loo? I couldn’t speak to. People who don’t clearly remember that time frame, tend to get blown away by how much other peoples hands are on kids’ privates until they’re potty trained. But there are also pedophiles who finger rape week old infants through the leg hole in their diaper, standing in a crowded room at a party, with no one the wiser. “Just” the baby being fussy.
 
For now, I am going to try and lay my ruminations to rest and focus on the things I do know happened.
I do honestly think this is wise. I can't advise you. But I have been in your exact position for a number of years and the search into it was actually traumatising. There has been no conclusion for me - with specific 'thoughts/ ? memories which aren't 'verifiable'. I actually view going down the 'trying to find out whether it is real or not' route a form of self harm for me. There's no conclusion from consciously trying to figure it out for me. And it only serves to distract me from my trauma work on what I do know happened. Because the blame only lays with me as long as I find no objective truth about these other memories.
I am starting to think it would be good if I go back to therapy and perhaps one specialising in this sort of area.
Yes! This!!
I have had trauma counselling before and my T was lovely and very helpful, but that was when I was dealing with a lot of other stuff at the time so I don't think I really explored my childhood as much as I would now.
Yes. I also understand this. I've spoken about it over the years with MANY different therapists but this time I'm really going in deep in a way I never have before. Partly because of where I'm at I'm my healing journey. Partly because my T is good at dealing with this material and hasn't brushed it aside. For me it's been important to tell him fairly early on in the process so I can gauge his reaction to it/ how he'll handle it. Then I can make a decision as to whether to continue. That's still a process for me but I'm getting there.

You need someone who can explore this with you even if they aren't trained to deal with COCSA in particular (and honestly, who is - it's not a thing people get trained in as it's so under researched and not well known about). They should be willing to pull apart your experience with the aim to see which part of this was traumatic for you and how this links with the difficulties you experience today. And they need to be sensitive in how they do that. And validating.
also wanna say thanks in general, I've seen you around quite a few posts and your responses and posts in regards to COCSA tend to be really empathetic and relatable. Every post I read from you just gets me thinking "they just like me fr" lol. It's very comforting to see :)
Ah that's sweet of you to say thank you. There's nothing like feeling we aren't alone in those difficult experiences. You aren't!
 
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