Relationship My ex with CPTSD blamed me for everything, and I am left feeling like I am nothing.

JRRTG

Learning
Sorry for seperate post here. Couldnt edit my previous to add this.

I just felt like it has been avoidance because she said we could be friends, then a week later said its not working (I messaged her once because she just got accepted to her masters so I congratulated her). Her actions of removing me completely from her life despite telling me we could be friends, just seemed drastic and avoidance as it was a removal to an extreme way.

As well as avoidance of the topic of our abortion, I realize its a tough topic and I would never want to force her to talk about it, but also if there was resentment or blame being held, I felt we should unpack it. But she altogether wanted to sweep it under the rug and hold that blame.
From an outsider, she’s saying you could be friends because she wants to give you a soft blow. If things were that hard for her to cope with, she would have just gone. Doesn’t really matter, what her intentions are here, you are gaining absolutely nothing by sitting around waiting, trying to figure out the what ifs, why’s, how’s, who’s. You aren’t going to benefit here.
 

Deanna

MyPTSD Pro
As well as avoidance of the topic of our abortion, I realize its a tough topic and I would never want to force her to talk about it, but also if there was resentment or blame being held, I felt we should unpack it. But she altogether wanted to sweep it under the rug and hold that blame.
She just went ahead and made that decision for both of you. Again, it was all about her and what SHE wanted. It had nothing to do with holding the blame. I agree with Sweetpea76 that you dodged a bullet with this 👧
 

Freida

Sponsor
Her actions of removing me completely from her life despite telling me we could be friends, just seemed drastic and avoidance as it was a removal to an extreme way.
If she didn't have ptsd how would you read this ^^^?
Because I think you might be using her having ptsd to excuse her behavior. Like, if you can just keep blaming her mental illness it will make sense.

So lets assume it is ptsd related. You won't win this game because she holds all the cards. If she has decided to walk away that's what she is going to do. Might be 2 weeks, might be 2 years, might be forever.
The question you have to ask yourself is how long you will put your own life on hold waiting to see if she will ever decide to come back.

And yep - I've done this to people. Especially if I think they have become desperate to keep the relationship going. Sadly it's very easy to do - -just walk off and then don't really think about them again, no matter how much I cared for them. Yes - it sounds cruel. And it probably is. But that's how ptsd works for some of us
And if the person chasing me wants to talk about something as traumatic as an abortion or was even a part of that situation? I'd be gone. GONE.


Which I took to heart and did everything I could our entire relationship not to break that trust.
If it's ptsd? None of this may matter. If I think someone has broken my trust they won't get it back.
end of story
Doesn't mean they actually have done anything wrong
Mean I'm tired of dealing with my thoughts about them

I think what you are missing is that ptsd is a mental illness that doesn't have rules that fit "normal" ways of thinking. I know you are just trying to find a reason for her behavior but are trying not to accept that the answer you keep getting is "its ptsd at work"

It makes me sad for you because it's obvious to see how much you cared for her
But ptsd relationships are like this. They are difficult and messy and make no sense. Because our brains are full of much, much more than the relationships we are in and sometimes that's the only thing that matters

You deserve better 🫂 💜
 

LostPossum

New Here
From an outsider, she’s saying you could be friends because she wants to give you a soft blow. If things were that hard for her to cope with, she would have just gone. Doesn’t really matter, what her intentions are here, you are gaining absolutely nothing by sitting around waiting, trying to figure out the what ifs, why’s, how’s, who’s. You aren’t going to benefit here.
I understand, by no means am I sitting around waiting though. I am healing I would say. I talk to my therapist every other week and I have been doing CBT for my anxiety on the other weeks. I got onto depression medicine and have been unpacking my depression and such from all of this. The thing that sticks with me is the blame she put onto me and the sheer fact she felt rejected and seen none of my effort.

Further, I am now working 2 jobs 1 as a teacher and loving it. Its my first career job and it makes me happy to work. My student loans are almost completely paid off now. I plan to move out over summer. I have 3 trips planned to europe over the summer. I have been watching animals from a local shelter as an adoptee parent while they wait to get adopted.

Again I am healing, not even looking for a relationship. Yes I can say I miss her, but that is only because of the love I thought we shared.

My therapist mentioned that I should look into a not very common term to ease my mind, Rejection Sensitive Dysmorphia. He mentioned this after he asked me to think about the relationship outside of the last year and breaking up.

To which I noticed she really really fears any form of perceived rejection. As seen with her parents obviously. But also in the times I tried to push her into social interactions to meet friends. For example, she had a class friend, I suggested to invite her over for a movie night when we lived together. Mind the fact that my ex doesnt have friends and considers her siblings her friends because shes close with them. Anyways, the girl said maybe, then told my ex she had to study the day of the hangout. But maybe 2-3 hours later she seen this girl on snapchat at a bar. My ex felt very sad and hurt. She felt like this girl didnt like her and didnt want to be friends so my ex moved seats in class and completely stopped talking to her.

During breaking up she mentioned to me and this is a direct quote, "When I told you I was pregnant, you had your panic attack, and I knew at that moment you were not the man I thought you were. If you love someone you would not have put them through the pain and heartbreak you put me through in that moment. I had never felt more rejected in my life when your anxiety flared and you panicked."
 

LostPossum

New Here
If she didn't have ptsd how would you read this ^^^?
Because I think you might be using her having ptsd to excuse her behavior. Like, if you can just keep blaming her mental illness it will make sense.

So lets assume it is ptsd related. You won't win this game because she holds all the cards. If she has decided to walk away that's what she is going to do. Might be 2 weeks, might be 2 years, might be forever.
The question you have to ask yourself is how long you will put your own life on hold waiting to see if she will ever decide to come back.

And yep - I've done this to people. Especially if I think they have become desperate to keep the relationship going. Sadly it's very easy to do - -just walk off and then don't really think about them again, no matter how much I cared for them. Yes - it sounds cruel. And it probably is. But that's how ptsd works for some of us
And if the person chasing me wants to talk about something as traumatic as an abortion or was even a part of that situation? I'd be gone. GONE.



If it's ptsd? None of this may matter. If I think someone has broken my trust they won't get it back.
end of story
Doesn't mean they actually have done anything wrong
Mean I'm tired of dealing with my thoughts about them

I think what you are missing is that ptsd is a mental illness that doesn't have rules that fit "normal" ways of thinking. I know you are just trying to find a reason for her behavior but are trying not to accept that the answer you keep getting is "its ptsd at work"

It makes me sad for you because it's obvious to see how much you cared for her
But ptsd relationships are like this. They are difficult and messy and make no sense. Because our brains are full of much, much more than the relationships we are in and sometimes that's the only thing that matters

You deserve better 🫂 💜
I guess in that regard I never really looked at it as myself blaming her PTSD, I apologize, I guess I am just use to saying that because the last year she was telling me that. "Because of my PTSD..., or Because you hurt me and broke my trust, or Because if you loved me, you wouldnt have done that".

As I mentioned above and gave examples to my last reply to JGTRG, my therapist wanted me to bring examples outside of the last year of trauma. When I did he mentioned to ease my mind to look into Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. I got this sense that he is trying to open my eyes to see that maybe throughout the relationship she wasnt as mentally healthy as I thought because I had her on a pedastal. He said he isn't by any means diagnosing but given context to possibly help come to some resolve of the blame she placed on me.

The story of the accident and the abortion he had me write in a journal to helo ease my mind. Each story was about 7-10 pages long. My goal with him is to find understanding and acceptance and find peace with the blame she left me with.

For example when she told me she was unhappy because of me and our relationship then continued to say that she is suicidal because of me and our relationship. This killed me. I felt panic because this was a time I couldnt be there for her as shes pushing me away and breaking up with me. I called her sister I am close to and shared these details and told her to try not to pry at her but be there to listen to her and support her. But also now where I am at, its hard to manage my own emotions and I try to unpack that she felt suicidal because of me and unhappy because of me when she NEVER mentioned this prior to breaking up. She would tell me she was unhappy when she thought about the accident, my family members, the panic attack, and the abortion, thus she didnt want to think about those things and tried not to. But never once did she communicate that she was connecting me to her unhappiness.

When she would mention the unhappiness with these topics, I would ask if I could do anything. She simply would say she needs time to heal and process.
 

JRRTG

Learning
During breaking up she mentioned to me and this is a direct quote, "When I told you I was pregnant, you had your panic attack, and I knew at that moment you were not the man I thought you were. If you love someone you would not have put them through the pain and heartbreak you put me through in that moment. I had never felt more rejected in my life when your anxiety flared and you panicked."
Thats not ok for her to say however, it is quite illustrative of her mindset/mental health at that time. She’s blaming you for her inner world. She’s allowed to feel anxious and afraid, but you are not? Are you not allowed to struggle too?

I’m a sufferer. I’ve been on both sides of this relationship conundrum. I urge anybody, in fact, I outright expect people to take responsibility for their own feelings. I’ve just stopped talking to someone because I’m in a bad place right now, and my emotions are all over the place, and that is for me to sort out, not him, so I wouldn’t be in touch anymore. Whereas, I have just come out, well, recently, come out of a relationship with a fellow sufferer. He would get angry when I would feel anxious too, or upset about something, or want to find a middle ground for something so normal. He took no responsibility for his own feelings and expected me to be perfect all the time. That wasn’t ok. It projects their feelings on to you, as if they are your fault, and they aren’t. Moral of that story, people need to take responsibility for their own behaviour and feelings; I don’t think she has, or is in a place to. Don’t take that personally. I know, easier said than done.

I understand you will miss her. I’m in the same situation right now however coming to accept that it’s ok to miss someone, but stay strong and move forward. It’s painful and a pain I’d wish to take away from anyone, but you got to use it to grow yourself.

Its good to hear you are keeping busy and doing what you enjoy. Enjoy your trips to Europe - our side of the world is lovely!
Best wishes.
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
Hi, and welcome to you. I am sorry, I'm waiting for Tylenol to kick in so hope this makes sense. I read your original post and the last, sorry I can't do more.

You said:

She grew up homeschooled with all of her siblings in a catholic strict household. For example, living at home at 28 she still has a curfew otherwise her dad yells at her. She fears her parents and wanta to make them happy and proud, seeking validation by doing right constantly. An example of this was when she started college it was for a career they suggested. Being in this environment, she has social anxiety and thus has 0 friends. All the years I was with her she made 3 friends and cut them out within 2-3 hangouts.

and

Now her father is a great person (?), yet he is strict and he has autism. She never shared with her parents all the details. Simply the details of the accident. Before the accident I was at her house 2/7 days in a week I would say because that way my ex and I could see each other because she liked being at home. Then 2/7 days at my house. And 1 of those 4 days we would do a full date all day or all night. Anyways, since the accident her father grew very resentful to me. Despite my apology in writing, and even in person. He would argue with my ex that she needed to break up with me and that I was not a good person because I let her get on a dangerous machine. Mind you my ex is 27 and I am not controlling thus I did what I could by warning my cousin to be safe and giving them helmets. So her father blamed me, and he told I am not allowed over to their house. So now, my ex and I only saw each other at my house and less. Even so, my ex told me that she had to lie to her father where she was going because he would consistently yell at her to break up with me because I am not a good person for letting her get hurt.

I understand you say you are close to the family, but from what you've described no one else is allowed to be close. There is a difference between strict and controlling. And at late 20's- when many people are already independent and raising their own families- it's not appropriate to use the leverage of family tie--severing vs living one's life in a normal, healthy and independent way. Nor should it be expected one's family is going to necessarily support you (nor support you financially), or agree with life-altering decisions like choosing a career or spouse.

Notwithstanding most dads would be upset their 'child' got hurt; still, in your late 20;s the people involved need to take responsibility.

She said we have 3 options, keep our baby, give our baby up for adoption, or abortion. I tell her thats okay and we go to her therapist. During this session she breaks down crying because she is worried about everything, she speaks for atleast have of the session about her parents and why she is worried they will disown her, and why she is worried about their opinion about premarital sex and a baby our of marriage. We leave with the therapist telling us to come back in a week with pros and cons for each option.

Right here ^^^ again you're not only giving an example of the toxic influence and control, but both also missing the point it's both of 'your' baby and relationship, to decide how to proceed.
After seeing her cry and worry, I spent the next month looking for work 8 hours a day. Yet it was covid layoffs happening and so I couldnt find squat. Anyways, a week later I bring my pros, my cons, as does she. I preface the talk with saying I want to keep our baby, I have been looking for work, and I dont want her parents to be a reason why we choose something like this. Then I also say I will continue to step up.
We give our pros and cons for each and hers are mostly focused on her parents and the lack of financial security. I understand and we talk about the options in therapy.

Another week and at this point we are going together to all of the doctors appointments. She talks to me and asks me what do I want to do? I tell her she seems pretty set on abortion based on our talk in therapy, that I want to keep our baby, but if not then I still want children in our future. She tells me she is leaning on abortion, and I tell her I will have to support this decision.

I understand you've been fully trying to and feeling like you're supporting her ^^, and I no way mean this unkindly and feel badly for both of you. But tbh it both sounds like you missed out on the communication, or miscoommunicated, and I am surprised the T didn't mention it. She sounds like she assigned much meaning to your actions/ inactions and reactions, and not necessarily was correct about how you felt. Similarly, the problem no one mentioned is dealing with her relationship to her parents. And even if you meant the best trying to scramble for work, she may have seen that as distancing. However, by late 20's and speaking of a serious relationship and commitment (before the baby even appeared) you both perhaps weren't yet mature enough to take in to consideration the financial realities (yes, I realize covid is here for the last year).

Finally she and I go to a doctors appointment and the whole time I am nervous because the night before I was highly debating buying an engagement ring and proposing to her. Yet, I was arguing with myself because I didnt want her to feel like I was doing this only because of the situation. During this appointment I was in my head and distant as I contemplated it. Afterwards, she mentioned how my actions were pretty clear in this appointment that I was against having our baby. I told her I was only distant because I have something on my mind I cannot share with her, because mentally I still hadnt decided. She didn't believe me. I couldnt pull the trigger because like I said I didnt want her to resent me thinking that I was only doing it for this reason.

^^ It sounds like you actually were contemplating it just because of that reason. However, needless to say, and especially from all you've described, 'being in your head' very likely was misinterpreted, and you didn't clarify why. Just as your panic attack was misinterpreted. Without discussing that the panic came from fear of unpreparedness, rather than OMG, a worse-case-scenario-I-am-stuck-with-you, who knows what she thought? Again, to know what you're both thinking, you'd both have to communicate and listen. And start challenging the stories of what you're telling yourselves, and not each other.
I slipped out and we take a walk and she is hurt, her dad told her that if she didnt get me off their property he was going to divorce her mom because of her.

^^ This floors me, and if nothing else highlights the dysfunctional control her father exerts. Not to mention her poor mother. What a way to live.
She tells me that she has had so much clarity the last 3 weeks. She said that she realized first that I broke her trust and that really hurt, but then being she was in such a vulnerable place from this moment with the accident that when she had to decide about our baby, that I WAS THE REASON she chose to have the abortion. She goes on to say that my actions showed her I didnt want to have our baby with her, that my actions of having a panic attack and being distant were clear to her (despite me never once thinking I didnt want to have our baby with her). She broke down telling me this and I simply told her repeatedly I am sorry you believe that but that was not the case and it seems what I tell you, you do not believe. She said my actions were clear. So she essentially blamed me for our abortion, and the accident. Yet I chose her in the accident by both supporting her and blocking my family, as well, with the abortion I was supportive of her and keeping our baby, not to mention she never brought this up ans her reasons were focused on her parents opinion and her fear of that.

^^ Again, this is a very sad example of the miscommunication and story telling. But without the ability to challenge the stories together, and to actually trust, I don't think there's a way to overcome it.

And unfortunately, people usually give in terms of support that they would like to receive, or in the way 'they' personally view support, not necessarily what the other person needs to feel like they are understood or heard. So, you may (or may not?, Idk) have needed calmness and understanding about your panic attack, and gave that to her. She may have needed you to be a more active presence against her father's demands, and to challenge her stories.
My therapist mentioned that I should look into a not very common term to ease my mind, Rejection Sensitive Dysmorphia. He mentioned this after he asked me to think about the relationship outside of the last year and breaking up.

To which I noticed she really really fears any form of perceived rejection. As seen with her parents obviously. But also in the times I tried to push her into social interactions to meet friends. For example, she had a class friend, I suggested to invite her over for a movie night when we lived together. Mind the fact that my ex doesnt have friends and considers her siblings her friends because shes close with them. Anyways, the girl said maybe, then told my ex she had to study the day of the hangout. But maybe 2-3 hours later she seen this girl on snapchat at a bar. My ex felt very sad and hurt. She felt like this girl didnt like her and didnt want to be friends so my ex moved seats in class and completely stopped talking to her.

During breaking up she mentioned to me and this is a direct quote, "When I told you I was pregnant, you had your panic attack, and I knew at that moment you were not the man I thought you were. If you love someone you would not have put them through the pain and heartbreak you put me through in that moment. I had never felt more rejected in my life when your anxiety flared and you panicked."

I don't think this is RSD ^^; it was a tumultuous shock to both of you. But obviously she drew different conclusions from your anxiety that were never sorted.
As I mentioned above and gave examples to my last reply to JGTRG, my therapist wanted me to bring examples outside of the last year of trauma. When I did he mentioned to ease my mind to look into Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. I got this sense that he is trying to open my eyes to see that maybe throughout the relationship she wasnt as mentally healthy as I thought because I had her on a pedastal. He said he isn't by any means diagnosing but given context to possibly help come to some resolve of the blame she placed on me.

Idk what your T meant ^^, but are you sure he didn't mean RSD for you? From what I know of RSD, it is self-reported by about 90 (if not 100)% ) of most people with Attention Deficit Disorder (I don't know if it exists otherwise), and associated with more extreme responses due to executive functioning differences, and in response to 'real or perceived rejection' (even if you don't care about the person). But it may also show up as fear- like the visuals that all of a sudden accompany a worse-case scenario, like a close car is going to end in a horrific crash, or even sensitivities, like chewing sounds of a person nearby. (It is also associated in a positive way with exquisite sensitivity, btw).

For example when she told me she was unhappy because of me and our relationship then continued to say that she is suicidal because of me and our relationship. This killed me. I felt panic because this was a time I couldnt be there for her as shes pushing me away and breaking up with me. I called her sister I am close to and shared these details and told her to try not to pry at her but be there to listen to her and support her. But also now where I am at, its hard to manage my own emotions and I try to unpack that she felt suicidal because of me and unhappy because of me when she NEVER mentioned this prior to breaking up. She would tell me she was unhappy when she thought about the accident, my family members, the panic attack, and the abortion, thus she didnt want to think about those things and tried not to. But never once did she communicate that she was connecting me to her unhappiness.

When she would mention the unhappiness with these topics, I would ask if I could do anything. She simply would say she needs time to heal and process.
^^ This is totally wrong: she's suicidal because she's suicidal. Which might have much to do with the fact she cannot live her life free of her parent's influence, which is actually destroying her and definitely impacting greatly on decisions that should have been her's to make. Her 'processing' sounds more like finding ways to reconcile she can't make decisions away from her parents' approval, and finding evidence you were harmful +/or not helpful.

i am very sorry for you both for your situation. But I can only say, because you are nearly in your 30's, there comes a time only you each could stand up and take responsibility for what you choose and how you feel. Neither one of you can 'make' each other feel any particular way, but you can reveal to each other what stories you tell yourselves and the conclusions you draw and work together on those. At this point however, I don't see it possible unless you both bring to the situation much brutal self-honesty and self-ownership, tremendous compassion for one another, maturity, and someone addresses the elephant in the room, that being the rigidity and unhealthy control of the relationship to her parents. Because FWIW, if she wanted to be with you, and you with her, her parents disowning her wouldn't likely stop her. And similarly, you might have started planning and working long ago to also make that a future reality, including financially. But just as equally, I don't think you'd want someone who's motivation to be with you was solely to get away from parental control. Etc.

I only say this humbly, because Idk what is causing what, and have no credentials to even guess. I do know if people love each other, or are mature enough to do so without self-interest and pride, compassion for the other will override other-blame. But, that doesn't mean it removes responsibility for each person to work on themselves or take ownership of their actions. It does mean however it's worth trying to understand each other and male sure you know each other's needs and meet each other's (both of you). JMHO however.

And another person wrote this today, hope it's ok to quote from another thread:

"When our fear system becomes sensitised in response to trauma, our experiences are distorted by a mesh of hyper-vigilance and distrust. Thus we scan our external world for the dangers that we perceive to be surrounding us [Chisholm, Hrdy, Nesse1]; we scan our relational world for the abandonment or attacks that we perceive to be inevitable [Hrdy, Nesse, Nijenhuis, Schore, Siegel, Woodman]; and we scan our inner world for the essential wrongness that we perceive to be part of our makeup/

-Daniela Sieff Book-understanding and healing emotional trauma".


Idk what either of your traumas were/ are, but you've both had plenty lately with what you've described. I'm sorry it turned out this way.
 
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LostPossum

New Here
Thats not ok for her to say however, it is quite illustrative of her mindset/mental health at that time. She’s blaming you for her inner world. She’s allowed to feel anxious and afraid, but you are not? Are you not allowed to struggle too?

I’m a sufferer. I’ve been on both sides of this relationship conundrum. I urge anybody, in fact, I outright expect people to take responsibility for their own feelings. I’ve just stopped talking to someone because I’m in a bad place right now, and my emotions are all over the place, and that is for me to sort out, not him, so I wouldn’t be in touch anymore. Whereas, I have just come out, well, recently, come out of a relationship with a fellow sufferer. He would get angry when I would feel anxious too, or upset about something, or want to find a middle ground for something so normal. He took no responsibility for his own feelings and expected me to be perfect all the time. That wasn’t ok. It projects their feelings on to you, as if they are your fault, and they aren’t. Moral of that story, people need to take responsibility for their own behaviour and feelings; I don’t think she has, or is in a place to. Don’t take that personally. I know, easier said than done.

I understand you will miss her. I’m in the same situation right now however coming to accept that it’s ok to miss someone, but stay strong and move forward. It’s painful and a pain I’d wish to take away from anyone, but you got to use it to grow yourself.

Its good to hear you are keeping busy and doing what you enjoy. Enjoy your trips to Europe - our side of the world is lovely!
Best wishes.
I think what you said here is why I am struggling myself even months after our breakup. I feel like she put all this blame onto me then just left me. In part I realize I cannot control that I had a panic attack but also I struggle with the fact that I did and how rejected and hurt she was from it. I never want to do that again with anyone, because it hurts me to think I hurt her when I couldn't control my anxiety.

This last year of the relationship I felt how you put it in your first paragraph, I told her constantly in a sad and depressed way, I feel like whatever I do is wrong and I am not allowed to feel. She told me a few times, "Well you were not the one who was hit by a truck in the accident and you were not the one in that room having something done to you." I simply would respond, "Your right but I also saw you laying there dead looking, I also lost our child, and I dont neglect you went through alot of the physical parts of these events but I also had to deal with mentally straining things." She would say again, "You didnt go through it in the same way I did, and I now have scars in me that may never go away."

After the accident I realized after the test and us arguing about my uncle that I could have been more supportive by listening to her wishes about not wanting certain things with my family because she felt hurt by them. Yah it took me maybe 2 months and us arguing but I realized, and thats when I blocked them. Before then I did not talk to them, but our arguments were based on me saying well what if... "what if in the future I want to invite my entire family over for a holiday or birthday or something, are they (uncle and cousin) not going to be allowed to come?" She said if I invited them then I would be disrepecting her and her wishes to NOT interact with them. Months later she told me that she felt hurt that I would even argue her on this point. By arguing with her she felt 100% I was choosing my family. I would tell her... I havent even spoken to them since the accident. I then would bring up, is there any chance for compromise or forgiveness? She would say, no she doesnt want anything to do with them.

One night after the abortion, she brought to me how she felt about the abortion, we talked then hearing her talk she seemingly was coming down on my panic attack, and how she wished I had found a job, and other things about how hard the whole experience was for her. I listened and as I said it felt like she was in a way coming down on me and pointing out where I screwed up and how it effected her. Then I began to get depressed and crying and opened up to her how much of a failure I felt and feel like. I told her how I wish I could have had a job and other things so none of that had to happen. I began to talk suicidal talk about how she would be better without me in her life because I just keep letting her down after the accident and the abortion. I was feeling that way and I was not trying to manipulate anything, but she told me the day after and then repeated it during the breakup that she came to me trying to be open about her feelings and that I made it about me and she felt I completely took her feelings and disregarded them when I began to share and feel down. Specifically, "You made that conversation about you, all I wanted to hear was I understand or other forms of support, but you had to share your side of it and that made me feel like my feelings were not important." I brought this up to her how I felt like I cannot share and how I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I dont. Like there is no winning or even finding compromise. She just would shut that down yet I felt that way regarding my support, I told her that I was trying hard and trying to do my best to support her, but I felt nothing was good enough.

Even talking about my depression, "Dont blame anything on your depression, then your just trying to excuse the pain I felt because of your actions." I would say no... I am just trying to explain why I have been sad and not as motivated as you expect or have seen before. Her response, "Everyone has depression, I have depression, but I didnt let that affect you or our relationship."

I definitely miss her despite everything and part of me believes its because of 2 things, before our last year we had an amazing relationship, and because we had created a baby together. Like I mentioned in my original post, despite my panic and anxiety, I was genuinely happy and I looked at her and imagined our baby and had dreams of her and our child. She didnt believe me because she felt rejected and thats hurt so deeply.
 

LostPossum

New Here
Hi, and welcome to you. I am sorry, I'm waiting for Tylenol to kick in so hope this makes sense. I read your original post and the last, sorry I can't do more.

You said:



and



I understand you say you are close to the family, but from what you've described no one else is allowed to be close. There is a difference between strict and controlling. And at late 20's- when many people are already independent and raising their own families- it's not appropriate to use the leverage of family tie--severing vs living one's life in a normal, healthy and independent way. Nor should it be expected one's family is going to necessarily support you (nor support you financially), or agree with life-altering decisions like choosing a career or spouse.

Notwithstanding most dads would be upset their 'child' got hurt; still, in your late 20;s the people involved need to take responsibility.



Right here ^^^ again you're not only giving an example of the toxic influence and control, but both also missing the point it's both of 'your' baby and relationship, to decide how to proceed.


I understand you've been fully trying to and feeling like you're supporting her ^^, and I no way mean this unkindly and feel badly for both of you. But tbh it both sounds like you missed out on the communication, or miscoommunicated, and I am surprised the T didn't mention it. She sounds like she assigned much meaning to your actions/ inactions and reactions, and not necessarily was correct about how you felt. Similarly, the problem no one mentioned is dealing with her relationship to her parents. And even if you meant the best trying to scramble for work, she may have seen that as distancing. However, by late 20's and speaking of a serious relationship and commitment (before the baby even appeared) you both perhaps weren't yet mature enough to take in to consideration the financial realities (yes, I realize covid is here for the last year).



^^ It sounds like you actually were contemplating it just because of that reason. However, needless to say, and especially from all you've described, 'being in your head' very likely was misinterpreted, and you didn't clarify why. Just as your panic attack was misinterpreted. Without discussing that the panic came from fear of unpreparedness, rather than OMG, a worse-case-scenario-I-am-stuck-with-you, who knows what she thought? Again, to know what you're both thinking, you'd both have to communicate and listen. And start challenging the stories of what you're telling yourselves, and not each other.


^^ This floors me, and if nothing else highlights the dysfunctional control her father exerts. Not to mention her poor mother. What a way to live.


^^ Again, this is a very sad example of the miscommunication and story telling. But without the ability to challenge the stories together, and to actually trust, I don't think there's a way to overcome it.

And unfortunately, people usually give in terms of support that they would like to receive, or in the way 'they' personally view support, not necessarily what the other person needs to feel like they are understood or heard. So, you may (or may not?, Idk) have needed calmness and understanding about your panic attack, and gave that to her. She may have needed you to be a more active presence against her father's demands, and to challenge her stories.


I don't think this is RSD ^^; it was a tumultuous shock to both of you. But obviously she drew different conclusions from your anxiety that were never sorted.


Idk what your T meant ^^, but are you sure he didn't mean RSD for you? From what I know of RSD, it is self-reported by about 90 (if not 100)% ) of most people with Attention Deficit Disorder (I don't know if it exists otherwise), and associated with more extreme responses due to executive functioning differences, and in response to 'real or perceived rejection' (even if you don't care about the person). But it may also show up as fear- like the visuals that all of a sudden accompany a worse-case scenario, like a close car is going to end in a horrific crash, or even sensitivities, like chewing sounds of a person nearby. (It is also associated in a positive way with exquisite sensitivity, btw).


^^ This is totally wrong: she's suicidal because she's suicidal. Which might have much to do with the fact she cannot live her life free of her parent's influence, which is actually destroying her and definitely impacting greatly on decisions that should have been her's to make. Her 'processing' sounds more like finding ways to reconcile she can't make decisions away from her parents' approval, and finding evidence you were harmful +/or not helpful.

i am very sorry for you both for your situation. But I can only say, because you are nearly in your 30's, there comes a time only you each could stand up and take responsibility for what you choose and how you feel. Neither one of you can 'make' each other feel any particular way, but you can reveal to each other what stories you tell yourselves and the conclusions you draw and work together on those. At this point however, I don't see it possible unless you both bring to the situation much brutal self-honesty and self-ownership, tremendous compassion for one another, maturity, and someone addresses the elephant in the room, that being the rigidity and unhealthy control of the relationship to her parents. Because FWIW, if she wanted to be with you, and you with her, her parents disowning her wouldn't likely stop her. And similarly, you might have started planning and working long ago to also make that a future reality, including financially. But just as equally, I don't think you'd want someone who's motivation to be with you was solely to get away from parental control. Etc.

I only say this humbly, because Idk what is causing what, and have no credentials to even guess. I do know if people love each other, or are mature enough to do so without self-interest and pride, compassion for the other will override other-blame. But, that doesn't mean it removes responsibility for each person to work on themselves or take ownership of their actions. It does mean however it's worth trying to understand each other and male sure you know each other's needs and meet each other's (both of you). JMHO however.

And another person wrote this today, hope it's ok to quote from another thread:

"When our fear system becomes sensitised in response to trauma, our experiences are distorted by a mesh of hyper-vigilance and distrust. Thus we scan our external world for the dangers that we perceive to be surrounding us [Chisholm, Hrdy, Nesse1]; we scan our relational world for the abandonment or attacks that we perceive to be inevitable [Hrdy, Nesse, Nijenhuis, Schore, Siegel, Woodman]; and we scan our inner world for the essential wrongness that we perceive to be part of our makeup/

-Daniela Sieff Book-understanding and healing emotional trauma".


Idk what either of your traumas were/ are, but you've both had plenty lately with what you've described. I'm sorry it turned out this way.
I am likely going to respond in parts but for the first one here you mentioned she assigned her thoughts by my actions and this is 100% true. I have the letter I wrote her the day after my panic attack apologizing and explaining my panic and anxiety, and the letter before our abortion about deciding which option. Yet she continued and even said MANY MANY times during the month of our breakup that my actions screw her over, my actions showed her how I felt, my actions and effort was not as great as it could have been. She followed up with saying "Your actions showed me that you were not the man I thought you were, when you panicked I knew in that moment that none of this is right. When this(getting pregnant) happens were suppose to be overjoyed and so thankful. But when you were freaking out I knew you were not the man for me." "Your actions were shit and because of them you took my heart and put holes through it. If you love someone you dont do that. You dont hurt them and put them through what you put me through this last year. If you loved me you would never have done those things." "*crying* when you freaked out I had never felt more rejected in my life, I was carrying your child and that still was not good enough for you." This was not true and I repeatedly said that is so not true as I embraced her as she was crying. I told her by any trust she has left in me, please trust me when I say my panic was only about the circumstances I mentioned, it was never once myself doubting you or doubting my love for you or our future. I wanted our child despite whatever you may believe now, and I beat myself up everyday because we went through with an abortion" she said, "well thats something your going to have to live with now and we both will hold that the rest of our lives but in very different ways."

So again she held these actions and put meaning to them despite my efforts to tell her otherwise. And when I did tell her she would just say she doesnt trust a word I say and that my actions show how I feel.
 

LostPossum

New Here
A part of me wishes I could move on like she seemingly did (removed me from everything, all pictures, and all post and all regard) after a few days after the breakup. I dont know how she did it.

But I cannot. I talk to my therapists that I am such a forgiving person that its hard to move on. Yet I stay in pain feeling like she acts like I dont exist. *5 month no contact post breakup*

Then another part of me wonders how someone could both not see any of the support and only point out how I messed up, as well as be unforgiving to the point that after years together she believed I would continue to hurt her as though I intended the pain I did inflict. Which by no means did I intend ever. I constantly tried to figure out ways for her not to be stressed or in pain etc.
 

LostPossum

New Here
Hi, and welcome to you. I am sorry, I'm waiting for Tylenol to kick in so hope this makes sense. I read your original post and the last, sorry I can't do more.

You said:



and



I understand you say you are close to the family, but from what you've described no one else is allowed to be close. There is a difference between strict and controlling. And at late 20's- when many people are already independent and raising their own families- it's not appropriate to use the leverage of family tie--severing vs living one's life in a normal, healthy and independent way. Nor should it be expected one's family is going to necessarily support you (nor support you financially), or agree with life-altering decisions like choosing a career or spouse.

Notwithstanding most dads would be upset their 'child' got hurt; still, in your late 20;s the people involved need to take responsibility.



Right here ^^^ again you're not only giving an example of the toxic influence and control, but both also missing the point it's both of 'your' baby and relationship, to decide how to proceed.


I understand you've been fully trying to and feeling like you're supporting her ^^, and I no way mean this unkindly and feel badly for both of you. But tbh it both sounds like you missed out on the communication, or miscoommunicated, and I am surprised the T didn't mention it. She sounds like she assigned much meaning to your actions/ inactions and reactions, and not necessarily was correct about how you felt. Similarly, the problem no one mentioned is dealing with her relationship to her parents. And even if you meant the best trying to scramble for work, she may have seen that as distancing. However, by late 20's and speaking of a serious relationship and commitment (before the baby even appeared) you both perhaps weren't yet mature enough to take in to consideration the financial realities (yes, I realize covid is here for the last year).



^^ It sounds like you actually were contemplating it just because of that reason. However, needless to say, and especially from all you've described, 'being in your head' very likely was misinterpreted, and you didn't clarify why. Just as your panic attack was misinterpreted. Without discussing that the panic came from fear of unpreparedness, rather than OMG, a worse-case-scenario-I-am-stuck-with-you, who knows what she thought? Again, to know what you're both thinking, you'd both have to communicate and listen. And start challenging the stories of what you're telling yourselves, and not each other.


^^ This floors me, and if nothing else highlights the dysfunctional control her father exerts. Not to mention her poor mother. What a way to live.


^^ Again, this is a very sad example of the miscommunication and story telling. But without the ability to challenge the stories together, and to actually trust, I don't think there's a way to overcome it.

And unfortunately, people usually give in terms of support that they would like to receive, or in the way 'they' personally view support, not necessarily what the other person needs to feel like they are understood or heard. So, you may (or may not?, Idk) have needed calmness and understanding about your panic attack, and gave that to her. She may have needed you to be a more active presence against her father's demands, and to challenge her stories.


I don't think this is RSD ^^; it was a tumultuous shock to both of you. But obviously she drew different conclusions from your anxiety that were never sorted.


Idk what your T meant ^^, but are you sure he didn't mean RSD for you? From what I know of RSD, it is self-reported by about 90 (if not 100)% ) of most people with Attention Deficit Disorder (I don't know if it exists otherwise), and associated with more extreme responses due to executive functioning differences, and in response to 'real or perceived rejection' (even if you don't care about the person). But it may also show up as fear- like the visuals that all of a sudden accompany a worse-case scenario, like a close car is going to end in a horrific crash, or even sensitivities, like chewing sounds of a person nearby. (It is also associated in a positive way with exquisite sensitivity, btw).


^^ This is totally wrong: she's suicidal because she's suicidal. Which might have much to do with the fact she cannot live her life free of her parent's influence, which is actually destroying her and definitely impacting greatly on decisions that should have been her's to make. Her 'processing' sounds more like finding ways to reconcile she can't make decisions away from her parents' approval, and finding evidence you were harmful +/or not helpful.

i am very sorry for you both for your situation. But I can only say, because you are nearly in your 30's, there comes a time only you each could stand up and take responsibility for what you choose and how you feel. Neither one of you can 'make' each other feel any particular way, but you can reveal to each other what stories you tell yourselves and the conclusions you draw and work together on those. At this point however, I don't see it possible unless you both bring to the situation much brutal self-honesty and self-ownership, tremendous compassion for one another, maturity, and someone addresses the elephant in the room, that being the rigidity and unhealthy control of the relationship to her parents. Because FWIW, if she wanted to be with you, and you with her, her parents disowning her wouldn't likely stop her. And similarly, you might have started planning and working long ago to also make that a future reality, including financially. But just as equally, I don't think you'd want someone who's motivation to be with you was solely to get away from parental control. Etc.

I only say this humbly, because Idk what is causing what, and have no credentials to even guess. I do know if people love each other, or are mature enough to do so without self-interest and pride, compassion for the other will override other-blame. But, that doesn't mean it removes responsibility for each person to work on themselves or take ownership of their actions. It does mean however it's worth trying to understand each other and male sure you know each other's needs and meet each other's (both of you). JMHO however.

And another person wrote this today, hope it's ok to quote from another thread:

"When our fear system becomes sensitised in response to trauma, our experiences are distorted by a mesh of hyper-vigilance and distrust. Thus we scan our external world for the dangers that we perceive to be surrounding us [Chisholm, Hrdy, Nesse1]; we scan our relational world for the abandonment or attacks that we perceive to be inevitable [Hrdy, Nesse, Nijenhuis, Schore, Siegel, Woodman]; and we scan our inner world for the essential wrongness that we perceive to be part of our makeup/

-Daniela Sieff Book-understanding and healing emotional trauma".


Idk what either of your traumas were/ are, but you've both had plenty lately with what you've described. I'm sorry it turned out this way.
I just want to add one more point about communicating. I realize communication definitely could have been better on my part, but I also did explain things like my panic and such things. I wrote her a letter the next day explaining why I panicked and how it was never about not wanting to have a child with her etc. Its as if she took my actions and felt I was lying or something the follow day as she stuck to her thought until the breakup that I rejected her and such. Then also writing her a 6 page letter describing how I felt about abortion, adoption, or raising our baby and bringing in pros and cons to each and how I would love to keep our baby but the only viable option based on her description of fear of her parents disowning her was abortion and so because of that I believe it was the best option. Yet I continued to tell her I still want this with her now and in the future and it kills me to think that were even in this position.

Further with communication, I would bring up my side or explain myself and it was as if she didn't trust me any longer after the accident and abortion to which she only could trust actions or trust her own intuition. So when I would talk with her for example about applying to teaching jobs the 2 months before the breakup - I told her its been hard because it seemingly competitive - I had applied to over 150 jobs Id estimate and did 10+ interviews and I would share how crushing it was to my confidence when I would get denied the jobs. Telling her how I felt I failed her with the abortion, and then now my depression was getting worst as I kept being denied. Her response to this was that I could apply to jobs not in teaching, to which I agreed to but after teaching hiring season was over. Further with my depression she would tell me, "I have depression, everybody has depression, do you see me letting it affect our relationship?" So its like she neglected my explanation and took me using it as an excuse. Yet I was just trying to explain myself to her.

As for her unhappiness, she told me she had felt that way for a year yet she would only talk to me in general terms telling me she needs to find more happiness in her life, she needs to get to a better place, etc. Nothing direct to me about me causing her unhappiness nor nothing direct to me about "Hey I am not happy with you, I love you and I want to try to work on this." I get it was a traumatizing year but in the end it felt as if she was blaming me for her year of trauma and telling me that because of me she has holes in her heart and she was unhappy because of me. Which is why she likely said "I associate you, I can't simply disconnect you from the bad things that happened this last year. You are connected to very bad things."
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
Fwiw i think you told her a lot, but maybe the trust wasn't established. She should have been more empathetic, and maybe that's something she lacks, or simply situational because she thought your words and actions didn't match. Or was too self-absorbed to see it hurt you both. Needless to say, it is probably easier for her to end it completely, if she feels she was hurt, rejected, betrayed, abandoned or the like, or if she views your actions negatively and as part of your character. Just as you would be glad to be rid of the relationship if you viewed her the same. I am sorry. 😔

ETA, even with more established relationships shared trauma +/or shared loss often ends in divorce. Unlike in movies inferring it brings people together irl it is often the norm.

Similarly, my grandma would say (& everyone I've told whole heartedly agrees & says, "Your grandma was wise!"): "Money goes out the door, love flies out the window". Not just the obvious, with many people's motivations, but acknowledging the sheer impact and consequences of increased stress, and probably decreased options.
 
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