My Foolish Pride.

[Go Hungry]

A big part of PTSD is shame, and that shame is born of pride.

I have a great deal of shame over some of my traumas, because of pride. I used to always think that it was my fault somehow. That I could have done something different, that I had control over the situations. And it is true that I could have made different choices. I could have brutalized the people who were hurting me. I had ample opportunity, many many times. But I didn't, because it wasn't 'christ-like'. I could have killed myself and ended it all, but I didn't because it was 'immoral'. I could have run away from home, sought help from someone else; but again, I didn't because it was 'weak'.

I was so concerned with doing the Moral thing that I let people destroy me without so much as lifting a finger to stop them. It wasn't -just- religion of course. My mother was teacher and made it very clear that *everything* I did reflected on them as parents, so perfection was mandatory. So I did the Moral thing, the Perfect thing, and destroyed myself in the process. I was so wrapped up in the whole self-sacrifice thing... So I just endured. What a fool.

And then later, I could have made the same monstrous choices.. or I could have at least done something, anything, other than just let myself be destroyed. But I didn't. Again, why?

In both cases, it was pride. I was so proud that I wouldn't reach out for help, wouldn't lash out in rage, wouldn't abandon people who I thought I was responsible for. So I stayed, because my foolish vanity, my pride, kept me from seeing that I SHOULD HAVE RUN LIKE HELL. It doesn't matter that I was trying to do the moral, christian, godly thing. (I mean, nobody actively seeks to utterly f*ck up every part of their own life.) So it was my fault, in a way. I prided myself in doing what no rational person would do, because of my own arrogance. My own manner of living the gospel.

Here's the thing, though. I still suffer from pride, because I hold myself to some absurd standard that I would never hold another person too. I still believe that I'm better, in some way, that it is/was my responsibility to be 'more moral than the next guy, because I'm ME'...

This is bullshit. It is pride that drives this shame. It is a blistering lack of humility that makes me hate myself for making the best choices that I knew how to make at the time. I mean, yeah.. technically they were the 'right' choices I suppose. But I do know that there are later times, when I eshewed 'morality' and simply betrayed my parasites, that I made the healthy choices.

'Moral' decisions and 'Healthy' decisions are often at odds in this world.

So I may hate myself for cruel, "animal reflex" choices to do the Healthy thing (and live) rather than the so-called 'Moral' thing (and die)... but I shouldn't. It is pride that makes us hold ourselves to a standard that we wouldn't even apply to a dog, much less another human being.

 

[The Albatross]

Hmmm. There is quite a lot of confused ideas here. Hope you're feeling better soon.

 

[shimmerz]

because it wasn't 'christ-like'

Boy oh boy can I relate to this. I am glad you posted this.

concerned with doing the Moral thing that I let people destroy me without so much as lifting a finger to stop them

I lived up to the 'turn the other cheek' line of bullcrap that was drilled into my head. That along with my really not processing pain properly had me be a great victim for those that liked that kind of thing. And yes, I held myself higher up on the 'morality' scale. I got lots of mixed messages from parents. I couldn't come to resolution with the turn the other cheek vs the 'by why did you let him/her/them do that to you'. lol. Because you taught me to Mom and Dad. I was damned either way I turned.

wrapped up in the whole self-sacrifice thing... So I just endured

Religion. Catholics they say as the best martyrs ever. This is Easter weekend after all. I used to spend all weekend at church honouring how he let people humiliate him, whip him, beat him and nail him to a cross. Weren't we meant to honour that? That was my way of doing so.

What a fool.

I would use a different word here. Misplaced trust in religious dogma that sets us up to be a victim. Society loves that in people.

I was so proud that I wouldn't reach out for help,

And if you had who would have been there to teach you? To support you in your learning how to protect yourself?

I prided myself in doing what no rational person would do, because of my own arrogance. My own manner of living the gospel.

This sentence struck me.... I can so relate. Yes, I agree it can be seen as a form of arrogance. It can also be seen as the ultimate in passion for something we believe in. I feel like I still carry that with me but I have learned how to direct it towards things that are not so fatalistic though. Not sure if that makes any sense. Cultish religions that demand unfaltering 'belief'....the 'Are you willing to die for your cause like Jesus did' really doesn't serve well in this society. 'Didn't die yet? Do better....do better.....' *sigh*

is pride that makes us hold ourselves to a standard that we wouldn't even apply to a dog, much less another human being.

Yes. And they trying to figure out whether we are turning against a core piece of ourselves by letting it go.... that serving 'Jesus' is about honoring ourselves in a way that allows for self protection.

I feel you in my own way, in this Go Hungry. Go Easy .... not Hungry..... Peace to you on this day.....

 

[shimmerz]

No idea where my head was at earlier. Typo's are horrendous. Sorry about that. :sorry: perhaps some trigger stuff in here for me as well.

 

[shrinkingviolet]

Being a Christian, I understand the need or want for forgiveness, but I don't believe that means we condone another person's actions, especially when they use their free will to hurt another......and neither does God. I do make my choices based upon my faith but I know that God is first and foremost about love and that includes loving ourselves, faults and all because he created us and loves us this way. I am sorry you are suffering and hope you are able to show compassion to yourself, as much as you give to others.

 

[Recovery4Me]

I rather enjoyed your clarity of journey involving false pride, shame and double standards that you have wrestled with and eradicated! Allowing oneself to ask earnestly for assistance is a major step for recovery in many rehab groups.

Acceptance of impasse and the ensuing request is vastly different than attention seeking ploys or to lodge shadows on someone else. It is proactive for self not necessarily against another party. Freedom from martyrdom is to me acceptance of some assimilation of self worth. I have been working on this as well! Inspiring share!

 

[Deleted member 1860]

You're post is a lot....

I think that moral decisions can indeed be at odds with healthy decisions when you have been brainwashed into thinking that certain things are Godly when indeed they are not. That is, you've been lied to and essentially forced to believe that certain actions are "Godly" when they are anything but.

Would God want us to lay down and take it like a bitch from abusive people? Heck no! (So why do so many send us this message?)

The turning the cheek bit....My priest told me this is misconstrued by the vast majority of people. Its presented as a "forgiving our enemies" type of thing where we need to be the "bigger person" and not fight back against injustices done to us. But, she told me that turning the other cheek was seen as an act of defiance and a demand of equality due to the way the slap was given (front handed vs backhanded) I know I'm not explaining this well, but the alternate explanation can be found on Wikipedia. Which leads me to this.....people apply modern day meaning to passages written thousands of years ago. Throw in imperfect translations from other languages (ie no translation will ever be perfect because certain words have no direct translation) and you have a recipe for disaster. People blindly follow these passages and believe that they're on the right path when they're not. (Sometimes I think people need to reassess who they're working for....)

I find much strength in my spirituality. I am fortunate that I belong to a church where I am free to believe what I want to believe as it isn't a denomination that says we must take the bible literally. I was abused by a person of religion and that messed up my view of God and spiritualty for the majority of my life. It was literally a matter of throwing away all of those external messages which told me how to define God. I whittled it down to a single solitary statement. I believe God is love, period. If something follows this, great, I can incorporate it into my life/belief system. If something goes against this, then I question it. (Yes, to me, it really is this simple.) By "love" I mean any and every type of love. Love for others, love for myself, love for the planet, love for animals.....you get the idea. Don't believe in God or spirituality? No problem, this can be used outside of a spiritual realm, too.....ie, its all about love, doing loving things for yourself, for one another, etc.

I'm not trying to preach. I think spiritual beliefs are a personal thing. I'm trying to share my struggles with it all and how I was able to mentally move through it all so that I could get to a better place in my own mind. I now stand firm in knowing that my belief is right (LOVE) and that so much of what is pushed as the word of God is just plain wrong. That is, once I was able to determine what my own personal beliefs are, it was a lot easier to dismiss those wrong beliefs that are forced upon me all the time.

I use my *love* concept as the litmus test for everything. Is this a loving action/thought toward myself? Is this a loving action/thought toward others? People tell me its overly simplistic, but why does this stuff need to be complicated?

I hope you can work through all of those abusive messages you've been given all through the years. I know its not easy.

 

[Chava]

Not sure what age you were and if referring to abuse or an overall negative environment, but kids aren't supposed to create the moral standards for the household. Also, what is "healthy" in most cases to the young mind, is keeping an attachment to the caregiver, even if they are horrible. Kids are wired to do this because they can't survive on their own. Attachment is a survival instinct. So is needing parents even when the attachment is messed up. So, for children, fleeing an abuser does not register as safety if they don't have someone else to take care of them. Also, trauma really dysregulates all of this.

Another important point: I DID fight back and try to flee a couple times and I got it WORSE. Kids figure this out quickly. I'm not religious, though respect your view. I just know morality didn't figure into my automatic responses in dealing with childhood traumas. My nervous system quickly learned which way ensured better safety, even if it was a shitty or dissociative form of safety. I understand some level of connection between shame and pride. I also understand running away when old enough to do so (I did that). But I think my shame revolves around feeling unlovable, garbage-like, and disconnected from everything.

It sounds like you've made some meaningful connections for yourself. Just don't let yourself "own" stuff that isn't yours, but nevermind (and sorry) if I'm misunderstanding anything....just what jumped out when I read this.

 

[Teasel]

@Go Hungry I relate to your post so much.

I think as a kid I felt that people around me saw me as so completely and utterly bad that I felt a need to be perfect and 'Moral' to make up for it.

That and a decision I remember taking never to be like the people who abused me - left me in the kind of prison you describe.

Lately I've occasionally really really enjoyed releasing myself from the need to be 'good'

I could do with a bit more of that x

 

[Dana1010]

I still suffer from pride, because I hold myself to some absurd standard that I would never hold another person too.

I think a lot of us do. I feel a ton of regret and shame about my first few years out of my parents' house, all the mistakes and bad choices I made, the years I wasted being a loser nobody would hang out with, making a fool out of myself everyday. But when I go back further and look at what I was put through, all the stuff that led up to that, it's like, "Oh wait, I'm lucky to be alive." I think of my siblings, and I would never judge them for any bad choices they make now, because, duh, how could they not? But for myself, there's this tyrant me in my head lording over me expecting perfection despite all logic. I guess it's the ego--a deprived, embattled, long suffering ego. And I think we internalize others' negative responses to us inordinately. What do they know anyway? They have this little shred of information.

 

[Tinyflame]

I can't say I equate shame to pride? Or not asking for help with pride (though I could equate it at times to other things & I can see how it could be). Mine was more logically or factually-based-on -info-&-past experiences, fear too & low probability of making the situation better (& a high probability of making it worse). And later not much hope or self-worth, plus fear (fear of asking, fear of consequences of disclosure, etc).

 

[Go Hungry]

I don't mean to bash anyone's religion, and certainly not to insult them. Part of this is because I have an alt who is still locked in that twisted Christian mindset (that he was taught, I realize that some people had a completely different experience.) When psychiatrists asked me the question, "Where does he live?" (it's kind of a DID thing) The answer is Hell. He lives in that place of eternal torment that God has sent him to for the crime of being born. And it seems there is no escape.

And if you had who would have been there to teach you? To support you in your learning how to protect yourself?

Honestly, nobody. Not that I can think of. I was a pariah at a young age, because in my case... Strength and endurance were considered to be the most important values there were. And to admit that you were up against something you couldn't handle was a sign of weakness, a moral failure. It's weird how a peer group (Southern Baptists) seem to take a book about the value of love and charity, and yet subscribe to a underlying position of... What am I trying to say? A position based on anger and perfectionism. I know for a fact that they taught me that if you Lived the Gospel then God would protect you. And if God didn't protect you, it was a sign of your sin and failure as a Christian. VICTIMS DESERVE IT.

This still goes on. I know I've seen folks mention in other threads how the people that they reveal their disability to immediately tell them that "They don't pray enough." What a horrible brutish thing to say. A person comes to you in need of help and you admonish them because 'it's all their own fault'.. Seriously there are some times I wish I could let everyone who is like that have a taste of the curse for a good year. Just long enough so it really digs in and they can't pretend it didn't happen. :mad:

Or worse, so much worse.. 'God has a plan.' Well clearly God's plans for me involved lifetime of horror and destruction. Bah, I'm going on a tangent...

But because of the rage and indignity I felt, the absurdity of continuing to reach out to the human world when it bit my hand Every. Single. Time... I just turned into a bitter asshole, and a quitter, etc. And also another thing. The sheer exhaustion of it all. Seriously, just going through a day of humiliation and violence and then being asked to do anything. It was all too much. I had a reputation as a stupid and lazy by *everyone*... Kids, teachers, preachers.. every damn person in that town hated me for being a victim. Made a further victim of me.

But anyways.. I guess what my ultimate point with the post was the pride (not self-value, HUGE difference) sometimes holds me back from forgiving myself. I know it's weird to need to forgive yourself for bad things that were done to you, but that's just a part of the irrationality of shame. It's infection-like nature. It starts with one thing and then seems to pervade my life. Shit... all the things I'm ashamed of.. Things that can be squarely blamed on my people-pleasing nature, my co-dependence, my mania/depression.. But all these things relate to my PTSD symptoms.

Aargh. I think I may have only confused the matter more.