Narcissists: People Persuading You To Develop Ptsd

[Philippa]

I think that's wise, and you're not alone Thinkingman85. My entire family do the same to me, and I've left them all behind, so I do know what it is to make such a hard and painful decision, but they just aren't worth my time anymore. I was taught the same, "be nice" always the counselor for all their problems when they felt like dumping them on me, but never once willing to listen when it was my turn and needed compassion. Being nice gets you nowhere, except damaged.

 

[Thinkingman85]

Philippa, you're right. There is no other choice but to leave those sick people even if they're family. Honestly, I believe that those kind of people deserve to be hurt. It's how I feel deep inside. It's so hard accepting that he knew what he was doing and he knew that it was immoral. Your own brother... He knew that I looked up to him and he used that to his advantage to use me. What sick son of a... It's so hard to find a resolution. I don't know if there is a resolution that can lead to peace of mind.

 

[Philippa]

And Narcissism seems to be like a virus, so if you are around a narcissist for too long you will become just like him or her, so I see it as cutting away a cancerous growth in my body. It's a necessary operation in order to return to health and mental well-being. They don't have my best interests at heart, so why should I make myself available to be used as a doormat. Funny thing is now I'M the atrocious one for having the audacity to actually not want to put up with their crap anymore. How dare I.

 

[Thinkingman85]

We are exactly on the same page. Also, your peers see you as the odd one because you are no longer part of the "harmonious" and predictable way of life... being in the same relationships. If only they knew what the narc is behind closed doors. I tried showing one of my friends some Facebook messages my brother sent and he blatantly tried to ignore them as if they weren't real. They don't want to believe that the narc is that horrible. To me, those kinds of friends aren't actual friends. They are quasi friends. They are pieces of garbage for not seeing your side of the story. Letting all of the bullcrap go is so hard. Believing that you are meant to be more after having gone through so much abuse is the hardest thing to achieve.

 

[CrazyHorse]

Isn't telling someone to "be very careful" also putting fear into them? It may be well meaning as you perceive danger there, but that doesn't mean there IS danger there.

You are right, in some sense, it is! But it was meant as a friendly advise because I do percieve her theory as harmful. Peptites are very real. Very superficailly put, they make strings of protien in our bodys. There are neuro-peptides aswell.

and I don't see it as blaming the victim. If anything it is saying you're not to blame because there are chemical things going on that you have no control over

Again, I find that statement to, maybe not shift the blame, but to shift the control from the target to the narc. Even when you are not interacting with them they are still in control. Either way, you have no control. I do not accept that premise.

She never "made" me feel vulnerable either. I felt supported and amazed at hearing about how the narcissist can re-wire a persons brain with their behavior

This is a part of her message that I do not accept. It implies that they have planted some sort of 'chip' in your head (calling it a peptide) and their control over you remains. It is activated when ever you think about the narc and what they have done to you. You now cause your own suffering, you have no control over your own suffering so you best not think about or speak out about the abuse. So if you still suffer, you are now causing it to yourself. What a smart way of keeping you not only scilent about what was done to you, but also guilty if you even think about it and get upset. That is what I mean by fear - based and blame-shifting tactics.

 

[anonymous]

I worry about how much the 'Narcissistic' label is tossed around, sort of like the Sociopath label. Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a real disorder just like PTSD is. I realize that it is hard for people with NPD to be properly diagnosed becasue they don't seek help or even realize it.

https://www.myptsd.com/threads/what-is-a-sociopath-personality-disorders-general.23710/

I think we should be careful with labeling people. JMHO.

 

[CrazyHorse]

I hear you, anonymous! But it also makes it difficult to talk about our experiences if it requires that what we are referring to as narcissists is only appropriate if the have an NPD diagnose. None of the narcissists I have encountered have had a diagnose (to my knowlegde), but it did not make my observations about them any less real to me. I doubt that any of the experiences shared in this thread has a formal diagnose behind their perception. But I do appriciate the problem behind that.

 

[Philippa]

You are right, in some sense, it is! But it was meant as a friendly advise because I do percieve her theory as harmful. Peptites are very real. Very superficailly put, they make strings of protien in our bodys. There are neuro-peptides aswell.

I took it as friendly of course. I know you were trying to make me aware that you find her messages harmful. I was researching peptides earlier as well, and I can see why you would think she is full of it. peptides running through a persons brain causing us to continue to suffer doesn't really add up to what the definition of a peptide is. Either she got the terminology wrong or she is spouting misinformation for some kind of agenda.

Again, I find that statement to, maybe not shift the blame, but to shift the control from the target to the narc. Even when you are not interacting with them they are still in control. Either way, you have no control. I do not accept that premise.

I think if you accept that we are energetic beings as well as physical, it is possible that narcs pull our strings on an unconscious level. Maybe it has nothing to do with peptides or chemicals in the brain, but I do think that when we have energy cords attached to someone who drains us of 'narcissistic supply' then it can explain why we go running back to people who are bad for us. It can't just be our destructive side that makes us do this. We still have control, but they can be very hard to resist not going back for another serve.

This is a part of her message that I do not accept. It implies that they have planted some sort of 'chip' in your head (calling it a peptide) and their control over you remains. It is activated when ever you think about the narc and what they have done to you.

Why is that hard to accept though? It's the same premise as someone who is addicted to a drug that they know is bad for them...they try and resist but it keeps calling to them, and they feel so out of control that they aren't able to say no. If you are addicted to an abusive relationship, even though you know it's bad for you, you still go back and don't seem to be able to stop yourself. If there is an actual physiological reason why we do that then it would explain a lot.

You now cause your own suffering, you have no control over your own suffering so you best not think about or speak out about the abuse.

Hmmm, I don't really see where you are coming from here. It seems like you are adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 7. If there is something chemical affecting your brain and causing you suffering, then that is out of your control. It may not be pleasant to think that you have no control, but nevertheless, that is the reality. Just because you cannot control it does not mean you cannot speak out about it. Often the victims own fear of not being believed, or shame at being under the persons thrall or a hundred other reasons is what stops them from speaking out. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you meant here?

So if you still suffer, you are now causing it to yourself. What a smart way of keeping you not only scilent about what was done to you, but also guilty if you even think about it and get upset. That is what I mean by fear - based and blame-shifting tactics.

I never got that impression from her speeches or writing. Melanie always seemed to place emphasis on showing understanding, which sounded genuine, and reminded people that she was where they are now, and I found that comforting. I'm sure many people did. I'm pretty onto blame shifting and as someone who has had gaslighting, blame shifting and other mind games imposed on them from a young age, I can spot it a mile away. I didn't pick it up in her case. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It's possible she isn't all that she professes, but I just don't see where you are coming from with the blame shifting.

 

[Thinkingman85]

Even if the perpetrators have NPD, there actions are inexcusable. Any person can understand logically what is right or wrong behavior whether it's a psychopath or not.

 

[Philippa]

Of course. That goes for anyone who causes suffering to others. Whatever or whoever made them that way is no excuse for how they behave.

 

[DMerish]

My ex (abuser) was diagnosed NPD when we both had psychological evaluations for determining custody of our children. (He wanted a court battle). Anyways, I knew what he had been doing to me was toxic (like brain washing) but it was the first time I had heard of the term NPD. After doing some research it all made sense. NPDs don't change.

My ex (abuser) lived and worked less than five miles from us but rarely saw our children. My son blamed me for not allowing his father to have contact with our son. His father told our son he didn't see him because I wouldn't let him, which was completely untrue.

My youngest son had some issues with anger and around authority figures and keeping a job, and figured if he had been around his father more that he wouldn't have had those issues. He came to my home one night very upset, angry, crying and demanding to know why I didn't allow him to see his dad. I calmly told him that I could say it wasn't true; however, that would only set up a he-said / she said thing in his head - the result would not answer his question or alleviate his anger or confusion. I told my son to take some time and ponder each of his parents circumstances, interests and activities, then ask each of us to explain why things in his childhood happened as they did, and ponder the answers - doing so would help him come to his own truth and that truth was much better than hanging on words that either of us said.

My son asked his dad why he hadn't seen him more while growing up. (He recorded the conversation and played it back to me). His father justified/blamed everyone/everything else on his neglect. Then finally said, “Look, your mom slept around before, during and after me (completely untrue). Have you ever noticed how similar you look to X and Y (former neighbor boys/friends of son’s). Your mom wouldn’t let me see you and I wasn’t sure you were mine. But I paid child support to your mom anyways just as if you were my son, and in my heart I feel that you are and that's what's important". My son calmly replied, “Thanks dad. I think I understand now. My mother is a whore. X and Y are my half-brothers. Mom let some other woman raise them, you feel in your heart that you are my father, yet you lived less than five miles away and never came to one of my games or let me spend any time with family, yours or hers, because mom wouldn’t allow it. You’re a big liar and an a** hole.” Ex-abuser laughed, and said, “Oh, I was just kidding. Don't be mad. Com'on - what's wrong with you? Can't you take a joke? Look, I think your mom is a lesbian (untrue) and I just can't be around that. You understand that, don't you?" Son: "Sure dad, I understand that."

Son could care less whether I'm a lesbian, or about anyone's sexual preference (it's not how I raised him). He still struggles today somewhat with low self-esteem and anger, but is doing okay - much better.

NPDs don't change. In their minds, they're okay. It's everyone else that has a problem.

 

[Philippa]

What an absolute A-hole. That's really, really terrible DMerish. I'm so sorry you had to go through that...and that your son was caught in the middle of it as well. His perception of his mother was skewed. I feel like punching that guy.

My father's the same, actually, both my parents are. They both whispered in my ear about what a terrible liar the other was and what a victim of the other they were. They're both pathetic children.

Last time I spoke to my father he told me he loved me, then told me I needed help...all in the same sentence! Even though I'm the one who has been addressing my issues for years, seeing counselors, working on myself, the fact that he lied about how he managed to violate my boundaries and read my diary when I wasn't there (I was 28 at the time mind you), and acted like it never happened. I'M the one with the problem though...not him. Never him.