News New Cops Told To Go Out And Cause Ptsd

[Deleted member 29961]

Having lived in neighborhoods where the police were too damn pansy to even roll through

When I was younger, I wanted to be a police officer just so I could roll through those niehborhoods (I f*ck'n hate dyslexia) and try and make them safer.

You don't get PTSD from going to elementary schools

Just an FYI, I was stabbed with an ice pick in elementary school.

 

[anthony]

@joeylittle, the interesting thing to me though, is that there are far more countries local to the US with large populations, small land masses, and no guns. Yes, crime is proportionate to population size, typically, off in some countries, but most civilised countries it is proportionate -- and they function without guns. There are all these countries around Europe with enormous populations, no guns, far less crime. China is the largest country in the world -- little to no guns -- little gun violence compared to the size of the population.

Criminals always find a way... but that argument is proven, country after country, that the American cultural reflection, seen in this very thread "the criminals will have all the guns" attitude, is really quite wrong and proven such across the world. Yes, criminals have guns in most countries, but when guns are so limited, even criminals keep them hidden because they're so rare to be seen, when they are, they get reported immediately and the police swoop.

The police wipe illegal guns out in said countries faster than criminals get them in. I mean -- professional criminals. When guns aren't accessible, you no longer have amateurs running around with them sticking them in peoples faces. Professional criminals are usually only killing one another, not civilians. Its the amateurs, the loose cannons, the depressed kids who have access to mum or dads hand cannon they have a freedom of rights to have laying around their house, that cause the mass killing issues.

Country after country around the world who have removed guns, civilised countries, have very low gun violence and subsequent civilians feel quite safe in their country / towns, to walk around any time with limited risk of violence. People aren't as tough with a knife as they are with a gun. Knives are an issue, yet Australia even made those illegal outside of kitchen / cooking usage. You get caught with a knife, court you go. Switch blades, totally illegal and you can't buy them. Like most hunting knives and such, can't buy them -- unless you're a farmer / country and need one for a livestock purpose, you have no purpose owning such things -- nor them being available for purchase.

Freedom of things comes with a price, in my opinion. People love to think freedom means doing anything they want -- yet American consumers aren't free at all. Don't pay your phone bill, electricity, you lose them. You need money to buy things -- otherwise you have to work to earn money. Working does not make you free. Or you steal -- you get caught -- you're really not free then when behind bars. Freedom of anything has limits IMHO, and has to be that way. Otherwise you end-up with huge societal problems.

I laugh when an American tells me they're free. They're in denial. Free of what exactly? You can't even travel within most countries nowadays, let alone abroad, without documentation. It costs money. You have to jump through hoops. You're restricted from most countries for any reason they want to deem. Nobody is free nowadays. IMO, freedom is a fallacy. You are not free to choose everything in your life.

 

[AnnaC]

They will have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands ! (& my bible too!)

 

[Truthful_Whispers]

Sending some anti-pig stuff your way :tup:

 

[Anarchy]

Anthony,
I'm a little rusty on nomenclature, I think it was the UN small arms project which estimated numbers of un registered guns in Europe. The figures for France and Germany are in the tens of millions each.

Attempts to estimate unregistered guns in Britain using the rate at which guns are confiscated or handed in, suggested that the remaining wild population is bigger than the registered population.

There is a statistically significant correlation between estimated gun availability and homicide (note that homicide figures are not internationally comparable, eg, the British figures are for murders, with a murder conviction and failed appeal, so a tiny percentage of total homicides) plotted by country. That correlation is not robust, remove only two points; the united state, biggish population, high gun ownership, high homicide, and Irish Republic, tiny population, few guns, low reported homicide, and the correlation becomes statistically insignificant.

There's a very good discussion paper of within country time series, and international studies by Gary Mauser, emeritus prof at SFU, from about ten years ago. John Lott, Gary Kleck and Don Kates have probably each got more up to date studies.

Regarding international smuggling. We know that drugs and cigarettes are smuggled in consignments of up to several tons (some have been copped).

If the price is right to incentivize it, there's no reason why guns wouldn't come in, in the same way.

With China, there are a huge number of guns, in the hands of an incredibly violent gang. A gang that murdered over 76million people in "peace time" in the 20th century. That gang's punishment for anyone who isn't a gang member that gets caught with a gun, is death. But that death gets called something other than homicide.

 

[Anarchy]

Unfortunately I don't know how to post links from this machine.

There's a yellow diamond shaped cops at work sign with dogs getting shot, kicking around the net.

And a "pig on duty" poster on deviant art.

For some of the factual stuff, Radley Balko, had an interactive "raidmap" giving the locations, and if you clicked on them, the summaries of some of the eff ups amongst the 150 daily SWAT raids in the united State; things like toddlers being ordered around wit an M4 carbine at their heads.

 

[Ed Norton]

If only people could see the stuff that I watch for exposure therapy.
Here's one example and @Tanishq
doesn't want cameras,?

 

[joeylittle]

Freedom of anything has limits IMHO, and has to be that way. Otherwise you end-up with huge societal problems. I laugh when an American tells me they're free. They're in denial. Free of what exactly?... IMO, freedom is a fallacy. You are not free to choose everything in your life.

Yep. Once upon a time, it had a context - the desire to be free of English rule, and free of those major restrictions - religion, expression, social constraint.

Now? In my opinion, we really don't know what in hell we are actually talking about. Making good strides on freedom of individual expression, in terms of gender/sexuality. Don't grasp that freedom to practice your religion is the same as freedom to restrict others from practicing theirs. Separation of church and state? Well, we tried. Social constraint? Locked into arguments about race, wealth, and government.

Right to bear arms? When the majority of individuals get a gun not because they have an identified use for it, but because they have an anticipated/defensive use for it - 'criminals have guns, I need a gun too' - there's nothing to stop everyone, including the police force, for reaching for -guess what? - their gun.

I'm not a pacifist, by any means. I live in a city where all the gang bangers have guns because all the other gang bangers have guns. Then, they shoot them at each other, and other people get hit in the process. There are signs in neighborhoods that say 'Don't Shoot - Children Playing'. Because the gangs have guns, the police always need to go in with guns. And f*ck, if everyone who lives in my area is in a gang, and they have a gun, I need a gun too. Great, now we all have guns. I'm so glad we are free to do so. :banghead:

So you're right - the only way that little cycle ends is if everyone puts their gun down, and the law officer keeps their gun in their pants and uses all their other tools (starting with words) to defuse, to help keep order. And I agree - I have no idea how we would ever get there.

 

[Ed Norton]

I guess they should've put 46 shots through my then 90 year-old great grandma, because of her pistol.

She lived to 109- so I guess they thought better.
It's not the guns!!!! :banghead:

 

[Changing4Best]

My husband and I had an instant of when the cops lied as well as a woman who lived across the st. from us. She said that her 6 yr old son was outside playing when my husband supposedly pulled a gun out and pointed it at him. The cops, had been called because of a street gang that had surrounded our house and they were holding pipe bombs in their hands. I called the police, while my husband held his .357 in the air pointing up and said, "The next one of you mxxx-fxxxers that takes a step toward this house, I'll blow your fxxxing brains out!"

The cops came, I had already informed dispatch of what was going on, and they arrested my husband! (the gang dispersed, as soon as the police car had started down our street.

They charged my hubby with use of an unregistered firearm, (he had a permit, so that was a lie!). They confiscated the gun, of course.

We got a good lawyer and the charges were dropped for lack of prosecution, due to the fact that the mother of the boy never showed up in court. That after 6 times that the court was held.

My husband's job required that he have no criminal record, so if he had lost, he would have lost his job, on top of going to jail, etc.

I lived in constant anxiety for those 6 months, while this case was open. The memory of that whole time in my life brings a great unease to me even now, decades later.

 

[joeylittle]

It's not the guns!!!! :banghead:

I think it's partially the guns - but you're right, it's a bigger thing about intent. When a cop goes out to do patrol, if they intend to get someone into jail that day, they'll find a way to succeed. If they intend on showing someone who is boss, they'll succeed. And if they intend on creating the least amount of violence possible while handling situations, they will succeed at that, too.

Intent is influenced by the police culture, which is created by the cops in whatever area they are in, and if there is racism among them as individuals, racism will be in the culture. If the culture believes their job is to take people down, that's what they will do. If they see every possible, potential, maybe-I-don't-know person as a perpetrator, they will attack broadly. And also: if they believe someone has a gun, they will shoot them at the slightest motion.

If they aren't using their guns, they will still use deadly force, like we saw with Eric Garner. What did they think he was about to do, when they took him down and choked him to death? I don't know. But it's got to go back to their overall intent, which was to 'take 'em down', talk later - instead of talk and diffuse first.

 

[Friday]

when they took him down and choked him to death?

Positional asphyxia. They didn't choke him to death. They handcuffed him. The position pushes the liver (primarily) up into the diaphragm restricting breathing in a very small minority of people. Even if standing. He was, sadly, one of those people. If they'd known to uncuff him? Or to shackle (which looks more brutal, but wouldn't have killed him), if they viewed him as too dangerous to front-cuff? Or to position not in the rescue-position (which they did, which is face down on your side, to prevent suffocating to death on your own vomit and saves tens of thousands of lives every year) when he passed out? He'd be fine.

That kind of medical training is exactly why "blue canaries" exist. Departments, almost universally, will not pay for / dot have the funding for the medical and psych training that officers have been asking for, for over 25 years. Blue Canaries are cops who take a 3-6mo month leave of absence without pay to put themselves through EMT training... At a cost of apx 3k-8k depending on the area. Many departments flat out recommend that all academy applicants do this prior to starting the academy so you don't lose pay & your place in the shift rotation.

Firefighters & Paramedics coined the nickname (you send a canary down into the mine to die), because cops with EMT certs go clear a house upon arrival at scene, while non-police EMTs wait for police reinforcement before entering a building or other scene where there have been shots fired or there is suspicious activity. Former Military have the same habit, but tend to share the nickname.