Relationship No intimacy, denies we are in relationship. Need advice!

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the push-pull....he only did that with me, because it is much easier to spend time with family and friends...both male and female....because they are just friends...whereas I was so much more.

Friends typically don't ask where you are when isolating unless its a super long time but they certianly don't pester you about where you are, who are you talking to, and when are you coming home (or when are we gonna see each other again if not living together unless its a super long time or unless they are annoying little twit friends).

Friends don't have pillow talk.

Friends don't want to get into those very personal and very intimate parts of your life that you keep very close to you and guarded.

And the list goes on. Your significant other is, by nature, the most stressful relationship in your life. It just is. For a millon reasons. There is nothing either party can do to change that. Sure, you can try to remove some of the stress but it will always be the most stressful relationship. For non-PTSDers as well.

So, there is this PTSD stress cup anology that Anthony drew up and it's accurate as hell. If you haven't, go read that. PTSD fills that cup and keeps it like half full all the time. When stress (any stress) is added, it fills that cup up way faster then someone that doesn't have PTSD. When that stress cup is overfilling, we are typically sympthomatic. Thus push. When we aren't symptomatic anymore you have pull.

There are many reasons for push/pull but why we may not do that with friends and only with our significant other is because our significant other by default is the most stressful realtionship in our life and well, the stress cup anology comes into play.
 
Friends typically don't ask where you are when isolating unless its a super long time but they certianly don't pester you about where you are, who are you talking to, and when are you coming home (or when are we gonna see each other again if not living together unless its a super long time or unless they are annoying little twit friends).

Friends don't have pillow talk.

Friends don't want to get into those very personal and very intimate parts of your life that you keep very close to you and guarded.

And the list goes on. Your significant other is, by nature, the most stressful relationship in your life. It just is. For a millon reasons. There is nothing either party can do to change that. Sure, you can try to remove some of the stress but it will always be the most stressful relationship. For non-PTSDers as well.

So, there is this PTSD stress cup anology that Anthony drew up and it's accurate as hell. If you haven't, go read that. PTSD fills that cup and keeps it like half full all the time. When stress (any stress) is added, it fills that cup up way faster then someone that doesn't have PTSD. When that stress cup is overfilling, we are typically sympthomatic. Thus push. When we aren't symptomatic anymore you have pull.

There are many reasons for push/pull but why we may not do that with friends and only with our significant other is because our significant other by default is the most stressful realtionship in our life and well, the stress cup anology comes into play.
I totally understand that....I did all along even before I found this Forum. Whenever he pulled away, I would leave him alone, but I am only human so it it would piss me off when he could spend the entire day with female friends....especially since I knew that they were all crazy about him. I knew that to him they were just friends, but it still stressed me out. I never ever started a fight over it though.
 
Maybe the route there for the next relationship might be to look at how secure your own attachment is, and the role of commitment in your relationship (commitment and love are separate entities, and love is different than lust)?

Idk, here they say supporters need the patience of a saint and the skin of a rhino!

Idk too, I heard recently lust is taking, and love is giving, to will the good of the other. Idk, too, sexual chemistry, when there, doesn't wane much when things go good outside of the bedroom.

Hope it works out ok for you. :hug:

Yes, hey @Freida -My Fairy Godmother best be packing a mallet!! :) :laugh:
 
Maybe the route there for the next relationship might be to look at how secure your own attachment is, and the role of commitment in your relationship (commitment and love are separate entities, and love is different than lust)?

Idk, here they say supporters need the patience of a saint and the skin of a rhino!

Idk too, I heard recently lust is taking, and love is giving, to will the good of the other. Idk, too, sexual chemistry, when there, doesn't wane much when things go good outside of the bedroom.

Hope it works out ok for you. :hug:

Yes, hey @Freida -My Fairy Godmother best be packing a mallet!! :):laugh:
I am just going to be single for a long time....for the first time in 32 years. Sexual chemistry...there was a lot of that....crazy much...but before we became involved we developed a really good friendship over four years...we shared things we didn’t share with anybody else....we just clicked from the moment we met and the chemistry was there from get go. So we had a good, sold basis for what could have been a really strong relationship. That is why we both stayed in Limbo for two years ......all the right feelings were there; friendship, fascination, trust and an crazy amount of attraction. That is why it is hard to accept that due to his CPTSD and him not being in therapy is too much of an obstacle for us to overcome ....it would be easier to let go had we not been neighbors and friends for four years before we became involved. I have to let go for now of somebody who was a big part of my life for six years and I miss him every day. But staying is not an option...not even as friends because neither of us can handle that.
 
I am so sorry that it is so heartbreaking @Butterfly64 :cry:
I am just going to be single for a long time....for the first time in 32 years
I think you will learn a lot about one of the most important relationships- the one you have with yourself.
That is why it is hard to accept that due to his CPTSD and him not being in therapy is too much of an obstacle for us to overcome ..
I have to disagree a wee bit here, but I mean it most kindly, and it's not to me semantics: I don't think relationship difficulties are all one-sided. And I don't think therapy is a guarantee, so there has to be more than just that as the criteria. (And things can go south, regardless of ptsd). And in no way as blame in any way, but your relationship is a dyadic, dynamic one, and you are 50%. (Although one could say, the past is 50% and there are (at least) 3 there: you, him, and ptsd. :( )

I liken it to this: my dad (likely with ptsd, on top of other stuff), said he couldn't live without my mom, or with facing his demons, when she put her boundary in place. She said that's too bad, but you hate life and I love it. His response? He gambled on not losing her and went for help. Her response? She said she didn't know how it was going to be possible he could overcome it (but of course didn't tell him that). And, I'm sure, the timing was right. We have to want something bad enough to stick with it and to try. If that is not there, and even the struggle not acceptable or satisfying, or the relationship is not enriching- you do not enrich each other's lives, more specifically, 'as is', ~'warts-and-all'- it's not a good fit. It never changed that my dad (likely, undiagnosed) had ptsd, or all the proclivities and symptomology that occurred, at times, no- frequently. But they both said- and Super-never-had-to-say as it showed in every way - they both had no regrets. Regret for choosing and staying with each other? Never.

Take care @Butterfly64 . Things will work out for you. :hug:
 
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I am so sorry that it is so heartbreaking @Butterfly64 :cry:

I think you will learn a lot about one of the most important relationships- the one you have with yourself.

I have to disagree a wee bit here, but I mean it most kindly, and it's not to me semantics: I don't think relationship difficulties are all one-sided. And I don't think therapy is a guarantee, so there has to be more than just that as the criteria. (And things can go south, regardless of ptsd). And in no way as blame in any way, but your relationship is a dyadic, dynamic one, and you are 50%. (Although one could say, the past is 50% and there are (at least) 3 there: you, him, and ptsd. :( )

I liken it to this: my dad (likely with ptsd, on top of other stuff), said he couldn't live without my mom, or with facing his demons, when she put her boundary in place. She said that's too bad, but you hate life and I love it. His response? He gambled on not losing her and went for help. Her response? She said she didn't know how it was going to be possible he could overcome it (but of course didn't tell him that). And, I'm sure, the timing was right. We have to want something bad enough to stick with it and to try. If that is not there, and even the struggle not acceptable or satisfying, or the relationship is not enriching- you do not enrich each other's lives, more specifically, 'as is', ~'warts-and-all'- it's not a good fit. It never changed that my dad (likely, undiagnosed) had ptsd, or all the proclivities and symptomology that occurred, at times, no- frequently. But they both said- and Super-never-had-to-say as it showed in every way - they both had no regrets. Regret for choosing and staying with each other? Never.

Take care @Butterfly64 . Things will work out for you. :hug:
Thanks so much ? Therapy is definitely not a guarantee that all will be well...it may help him to get better. I want him to get help for him...not for me...not for us...for him.
And yes...it takes two to tango...so to speak. I googled PTSD in order to learn more...I was especially interested in learning if fear of intimacy and relationship is a “typical” side effect. However the sites I found were not helpful at all! Like a doctor explaining what PTSD is...nothing about how devastating a condition it is. So at times I wasn’t sure if he deliberately avoided intimacy...that is was not a PTSD thing or if it was very much a PTSD thing. It was not until I found this Forum and learned so much, that I really got a look into how PTSD destroys people. Had I known this before, I would never have pushed him for intimacy ...I would have handled him differently. Maybe the end result would have been the same....maybe even if I had known, what I know now and I had not pushed him, he still would not dare open up to intimacy, which is something I can’t live without. That being said, I have been extremely patient with him....most women would have walked away, but I just couldn’t give up on us. Part of me still can’t....but as long as he says he will be single forever, there really isn’t much I can do about it....as I said, it takes two to tango and he won’t dance now?. He is so used to me taking him back and now he has finally realized that I am not coming back this time...not without intimacy and relationship and he can’t do that. So he blogged me on Messenger on Monday because as he said; I can’t have you on Messenger, it is too tempting and I can’t control having you there.....if I blog you, you are not a distraction and I can try and find myself and we will se if that changes something over time (regarding his fear of intimacy).
 
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Update;
As I posted on the 9. of June he had to blog me on Messenger in order to control himself from contacting me and asking if we can continue to be casual, but exclusive. So yesterday evening...just 10 days after him blocking me, in order to try and find himself without me being there to confuse him, he unblocked me and texted, that he would drop by today with some stuff he had borrowed. My heart raced and skipped a bunch of beats, when I saw he had texted me! The irony of him wanting to drop off my things is that on the 8th of June before blocking me, he wrote that he would drop my things of the same week without seeing me...which he didn’t and now he wanted to come by.

He quickly started texting about hooking up again...just to be casual again which I for the sixth time since May, said no to. What is stopping me from this is still his aversion to intimacy outside the bedroom...actually also inside the bedroom, because he is afraid to let his guard down cause intimacy equals relationship to him. So I told him, yet again, that there is no way I am getting back without intimacy. But the thing is...even with intimacy I would be hesitant, due to him three times over a period of a year, saying that sometimes he is so out of balance that even though I am his biggest desire ever, he might jump some random woman at a party. Yes he only said that, when he felt pushed for intimacy...when he was in a bad stat...and a few days later, he always said, that he was out of balance and he doesn’t just jump random women. But that still scares me.
Furthermore he claims, that one woman is not going to be enough for him for the rest of his life...that he wishes he could promise me that he would never want another but me, but he can’t cause before he met me, at one pint when he was with somebody, he would get the urge to be with somebody new...not with somebody specific he had his eye on..it was more of an urge to be with another. I suppose it is an urge to feel free...that is isn’t really about sex...there is something deeper buried....urge for freedom and being confirmed that women find him desirable. Which is strange, because he knows that women have always found him extremely attractive from he was quite young to now when he is 44.

I know that even if he was ready for a relationship, there are no guarantees that neither he or I wouldn’t at some point get attracted to somebody else, BUT in my world, if you enter a relationship....and even he defines himself as single, we have been exclusive for two years...you at least have to believe, that you will not be interested in somebody else at a point...that you are in to stay. According to him, I am the only one he is interested in and will be for a long time, but eventually he will want to be with somebody new...not because his desire for me has diminished in any way, because for the first time time in his life, he is sure that he will always desire me more than anybody before, but he will still at one point down the line, feel and urge to be with somebody else...not in a relationship with them...just sex maybe once or twice. And that scares me! I don’t know if it is PTSD saying that at one point he will get the urge...maybe admitting that he won’t get that urge when being with me, would leave him vulnerable? He got the urge when he was in his twenties and early thirties when he was in relationship that didn’t work and the relationship ended naturally before he acted on the urge and his last relationship, which ended about 3,5 years ago and lasted 7 years, he never acted on their agreement that they were allowed to see somebody else (an agreement he needed). He could have acted on it...their relationship quickly became more of a friendship with sex maybe 4-5 times a year and he always had to initiate it, because she had mental problems which he always tried to help her with, despite his growing PTSD and constant back pains. But he never used their agreement, he stayed with her and when I asked, why he didn’t have sex with somebody else, he said...because it felt wrong. So he is full of contradictions!

So I am very confused as to whether his claim to always ending up wanting to have sex with somebody else at a point is just PTSD because he can’t admit to finally having met at woman that satisfies him mentally and sexually (which he has never tried before) or if it is the truth and because of that I can’t be with him and now he has just texted me, that me coming over and seeing him for 30 minutes a couple of hours ago, messed with his head and he has to block me on Messenger again !!!
 
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Furthermore he claims, that one woman is not going to be enough for him for the rest of his life...that he wishes he could promise me that he would never want another but me, but he can’t cause before he met me, at one pint when he was with somebody, he would get the urge to be with somebody new...not with somebody specific he had his eye on..it was more of an urge to be with another. I suppose it is an urge to feel free...that is isn’t really about sex...there is something deeper buried....urge for freedom and being confirmed that women find him desirable. Which is strange, because he knows that women have always found him extremely attractive from he was quite young to now when he is 44.

^Look this guy has so much to sort out about what he wants in a relationship. Honestly, if he is still wondering about ^ he's just not ready for you. Being 'exclusive' has to be a mutual agreement otherwise it just cannot work out. Can it?

I don’t know if it is PTSD saying that at one point he will get the urge...maybe admitting that he won’t get that urge when being with me, would leave him vulnerable?

^No... ptsd doesn't make anyone become a cheater. Honestly, look further into his character. He is 44! Not 14.

So I am very confused as to whether his claim to always ending up wanting to have sex with somebody else at a point is just PTSD

^No wonder you are confused. He blocks you, he's mixing and making it up as he goes along.

I think you are very strong and should just drop this guy and go and be open to the possibility that you are way too good for this kind of on again, off again scenario. You deserve better Butterfly - honestly you do.
 
^Look this guy has so much to sort out about what he wants in a relationship. Honestly, if he is still wondering about ^ he's just not ready for you. Being 'exclusive' has to be a mutual agreement otherwise it just cannot work out. Can it?



^No... ptsd doesn't make anyone become a cheater. Honestly, look further into his character. He is 44! Not 14.



^No wonder you are confused. He blocks you, he's mixing and making it up as he goes along.

I think you are very strong and should just drop this guy and go and be open to the possibility that you are way too good for this kind of on again, off again scenario. You deserve better Butterfly - honestly you do.
Thanks ?
We have been completely exclusive and he knows that if he gets the urge to see others he is not for me. I know that he is desperate to keep me at an arms length in order not to become too involved because then his CPTSD flares up...at the same time, he can’t let me go...so I decided to let him go in May. He misses me every day, but relationship scares him because he is surviving on a day to day basis...which most sufferers do. He feels extremely guilty for not being able commit and has asked me several times to end us because he can’t.
He is not a cheater...never has been. That is why he had an agreement with his ex...witch he didn’t use because it would have felt wrong. If he was a cheater he would not have told me that at one point he will likely want to be with somebody new...he knows that pushes me away and makes me not want to be with him. The smart thing would be not to mention other women at all! And that puzzles me...he craves me, but at the same time pushes me away with the talk of other women...so is he just being honest or is he lying to push me away! I am convinced that he has commitment issues...that he will feel trapped and he is definitely not ready for a relationship and is likely to stay single always due to PTSD.
 
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and he knows that if he gets the urge to see others he is not for me.

^He's still mentioning his urges and other women. If he is convinced that he wants you and you will not tolerate him seeing other women then yeah... what's with the talking about other women? That would piss me off no end. I mean he's either all in (to you) or he's not. There simply isn't anything to be gained by raising his attraction to other women. It must hurt you butterfly.. does it?

in order not to become too involved because then his CPTSD flares up.

^Ok granted relationships can put sufferers under stress but a lot of the time relationships also stabilise and assist sufferers. Having a relationship is not negative unless the relationship itself is somehow flawed or at least not stable. Or the parties to the relationship are not fully committed for other reasons.

I'm sorry I don't accept that he cannot commit bc his ctpsd flares up. If he was in therapy, completely committed to you (and no other) he'd be hanging onto you and asking you to at least wait until he gets himself together and letting you know how much you mean to him. He'd value what you bring to his life.

but relationship scares him because he is surviving on a day to day basis...which most sufferers do.

^Not so true. But maybe for this man and it doesn't have to be that way forever either.

Sure relationships are scary but they are for everyone particularly if they are new and very much valued.

Many sufferer's are high functioning, motivated people who manage their ptsd very well. Some are not but we are not all the same.

Relationships can be a blessing for a sufferer. If he's suffering so much on a day to day basis even the very idea of hanging out with other females that he's admitted he's attracted to probably wouldn't be something he'd be doing, thinking about or even telling you about - would he?

For someone that is apparently just managing, the other women issue certainly is a big and unnecessary complication to his life. The keep it simple rule is very high up there when one is going from one day to another and just getting by.

He is not a cheater...never has been.

^Not saying he is. But bringing other people into the relationship, making deals & agreements with past and present partners... talking about how he cannot be a one woman man etc., that's not a monogamous thinker either, is it?

If he was a cheater he would not have told me that at one point he will likely want to be with somebody new...he knows that pushes me away and makes me not want to be with him.

^That is such a weird way of distancing oneself from someone he apparently likes or loves... isn't it? I mean why does he use the prospect of 'other' women to scare you, or put you in your place? Why not be a grown up and say he's not ready for a full on commitment without using the spectre of other women as a potential reason. Remember he's an adult here...

For sure if you had not already had a relationship with him for two years... I could see a bloke saying, 'hey I'm not into being committed to one woman right now..." But that's not the case here. For the life of me, I cannot understand how you can not be hurt by his reasoning. I know you care for him but again, I say you are way too good for this bloke. I really think he is a bit of player under that ptsd...

I am convinced that he has commitment issues...that he will feel trapped and he is definitely not ready for a relationship and is likely to stay single always due to PTSD.

I"m certain you know him very well but I'd be wary of attributing his lack of commitment to you (or anyone else) solely due to ptsd. For sure he's got some issues but anyway... why worry about what they are if you have stepped away from him. Whatever his reasons they seem to be sufficient for you to know that he's not going to be able to give you what you need and I, for one, don't blame you one little bit.

I hope you find someone who can truly commit to you and give you back as much care and love that clearly you want and are capable of giving.

All the best. :)
 
^He's still mentioning his urges and other women. If he is convinced that he wants you and you will not tolerate him seeing other women then yeah... what's with the talking about other women? That would piss me off no end. I mean he's either all in (to you) or he's not. There simply isn't anything to be gained by raising his attraction to other women. It must hurt you butterfly.. does it?



^Ok granted relationships can put sufferers under stress but a lot of the time relationships also stabilise and assist sufferers. Having a relationship is not negative unless the relationship itself is somehow flawed or at least not stable. Or the parties to the relationship are not fully committed for other reasons.

I'm sorry I don't accept that he cannot commit bc his ctpsd flares up. If he was in therapy, completely committed to you (and no other) he'd be hanging onto you and asking you to at least wait until he gets himself together and letting you know how much you mean to him. He'd value what you bring to his life.



^Not so true. But maybe for this man and it doesn't have to be that way forever either.

Sure relationships are scary but they are for everyone particularly if they are new and very much valued.

Many sufferer's are high functioning, motivated people who manage their ptsd very well. Some are not but we are not all the same.

Relationships can be a blessing for a sufferer. If he's suffering so much on a day to day basis even the very idea of hanging out with other females that he's admitted he's attracted to probably wouldn't be something he'd be doing, thinking about or even telling you about - would he?

For someone that is apparently just managing, the other women issue certainly is a big and unnecessary complication to his life. The keep it simple rule is very high up there when one is going from one day to another and just getting by.



^Not saying he is. But bringing other people into the relationship, making deals & agreements with past and present partners... talking about how he cannot be a one woman man etc., that's not a monogamous thinker either, is it?



^That is such a weird way of distancing oneself from someone he apparently likes or loves... isn't it? I mean why does he use the prospect of 'other' women to scare you, or put you in your place? Why not be a grown up and say he's not ready for a full on commitment without using the spectre of other women as a potential reason. Remember he's an adult here...

For sure if you had not already had a relationship with him for two years... I could see a bloke saying, 'hey I'm not into being committed to one woman right now..." But that's not the case here. For the life of me, I cannot understand how you can not be hurt by his reasoning. I know you care for him but again, I say you are way too good for this bloke. I really think he is a bit of player under that ptsd...



I"m certain you know him very well but I'd be wary of attributing his lack of commitment to you (or anyone else) solely due to ptsd. For sure he's got some issues but anyway... why worry about what they are if you have stepped away from him. Whatever his reasons they seem to be sufficient for you to know that he's not going to be able to give you what you need and I, for one, don't blame you one little bit.

I hope you find someone who can truly commit to you and give you back as much care and love that clearly you want and are capable of giving.

All the best. :)
Thanks again ? He is not in therapy and coping on a day to day basis. He is definitely not attracted to anybody but me...that is for sure. It would be so much easier for him to have a friend with benefits...so much easier than being with me, who has pushed for intimacy for two years. Being with me has not been good for him mentally. He has said for a long time that he is not ready for a relationship and probably never will be...it takes all his strength to take care of himself....he said that even before we got involved...we were friend for four years before we became involved. So I knew he had no faith in relationships when we became involved.
The talking about other women were only three times over two years...when he felt pushed by me. The last time was in May and then he had not mentioned it for nine month...not once. I guess he does to push me away and then he regrets it a few later. He knows that the only thing that would make me stop us, is him talking about other women. It is a shitty move I know and it does piss me off...that is why I dumped him. But I have an idea that if he did go to therapy and could commit to a relationship, he wouldn’t want to be with anybody but me. That being said, he knows I don’t want him now...not unless he goes to therapy and can commit.
 
Gently I say @Butterfly64 , therapy for ptsd doesn't necessarily eradicate or hone commitment or maturity. In fact, I would guess amongst other things one needs more commitment to therapy to get one's rear there. Would he stay with you if you couldn't make love? What if you were together and then you got ill? Etc.

Because I'm sure it's not the case, but right now it's sounding more like a booty call, and they are as common as blades of grass. (And I've never known any guy (personally) who pushes constantly for sex who has ever given up. There's one I see at work who pushes it every tuesday (seriously), and another it's been more than a decade and he sometimes texts me as though he's texting someone else; only after the 1st time or two I realized he hadn't made a mistake/ wrong contact. But I don't see it as their attraction to me, or my value to them. It's just trying to get their needs met. At my expense if I'm not agreeing, and they don't care for me).

I don't think it's very thoughtful of your feelings to speak as you have described he does. It isn't caring, if it hurts you. And really it should either hurt you, or it's helping you because it's the truth. If he said he doesn't think he can be faithful or monogamous- ptsd or not, I would believe him. Myabe he wants to be, but can't (which has nothing to do with ptsd).
 
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