Relationship Not Everything Is Ptsd

[rightkindofme]

Err, any behavior that slightly bothers another person?

You and I have probably had very different sets of life experiences. I think we are picturing very different things in our heads.

 

[Nicolette]

This thread was pitched at supporters excusing 'non PTSD' behaviours as 'PTSD' to justify being treated badly as a partner - not illness related symptoms.

 

[nursenurse]

We're not talking "You twit! You left the cap off the toothpaste again!" kind of thing here, although that would be anathema in some folks' books :D In the end, if anyone wants to accept any kind of behaviour, whether it is deemed PTSD related or just plain ignorance, that is their choice. I believe this forum was developed with heavy hitting opinions and advice in mind. If you want hand holding, you go out for drinks with the girls (or guys or whatever). If you want no holds barred solid stuff, you come here, and be prepared to hear things you don't want to hear. What you do with it is your business.

 

[InHell11]

Perhaps, though I am still sticking with PTSD and other mental illness interferes with behavior and functioning. That doesn't mean I have a right to go around hurting people or something, but if I get triggered and I think I am in danger and go into fight or flight mode how can I be held personally responsible for that I don't exactly have a choice when that happens.

But perhaps that's not quite what is being discussed, and I do agree that if someone is hurting someone they should be stopped. I agree that things like mental/physical/sexual abuse are not ever ok and I don't think PTSD would be an excuse for any of that. However it is possible to lose control of the symptoms and become a risk to yourself and possibly others I guess I feel like it would be dangerous not to acknowledge that at least with me.

 

[InHell11]

This thread was pitched at supporters excusing 'non PTSD' behaviours as 'PTSD' to justify being treated badly as a partner

I realize that, but then the non PTSD behaviors and PTSD behaviors have to be determined right? It would do no good to treat a PTSD behavior as a non-PTSD behavior. I was only trying to point out the other side which is some people take it too far and then assume there aren't any PTSD behaviors and its all intentional 'bad' behavior on that individuals part.

Sorry if I have been unclear or stirred anything up, I was only trying to join in the discussion because I thought I had some valid input. But I will leave it alone if that's best.

 

[Abstract]

and go into fight or flight mode how can I be held personally responsible for that I don't exactly have a choice when that happens.

In hell depending on your patterns you may more easily go into fight for example whereas I tend to go into freeze but by others holding us responsible and practice we can change what we do when in fight or flight. Just because we are in fight and flight does not mean that we are excused for treating others abusively for example. Intentional or not some things are still not acceptable. The exception to that is being in a flashback as then we are not reacting to the present.

When it comes to more subtle things such as a avoidance it is tricky. I know me avoiding in relationships is directly to do with PTSD and it usually has nothing to do with my lack of feeling for the person. In fact the more I care the more I avoid and can't cope. And yet that does not mean that everyone who is not showing up emotionally in a relationship is doing this. In non PTSD relationships there is a lot of using of others; people playing games and not being committed or caring about the person. There is no reason why these things would not happen just because one person has PTSD. And for someone like me where I do care that does not mean that the other person is supposed to give up what they need in a relationship. I am not relationship material at present and there has to be some responsibility in that too.

So really regardless of what we are talking about here and regardless of the difficulties that PTSD causes for us we still have responsibilities and accountability. And what Niclolette is talking about is supporters tendency to excuse all behaviour and blame it on PTSD when there must be a significant percentage of these sufferers who are just not into the relationship and supporters not wanting to face it and therefore continuing to run after the person regardless.

My point was the existence of that indicates that if one is not in a state they can control their behavior then they can't legally be held accountable.

I think you will find there is very little that is not subject to being held legally accountable for. If you have PTSD and are in flight and fight and injure someone or abuse them in any way you will be held legally accountable and that is how it should be.

 

[InHell11]

I was talking about the sort of fight or flight you go into during a flashback or other PTSD state of non-rationality. Behaving like you are reacting to danger.

Though it is also possible to be irritable over the symptoms which I am not entirely sure one can just not do. I mean when you're too overwhelmed you're too overwhelmed. If someone without PTSD is having a terrible day and they come off a bit snappy I have observed people tend to be a little more understanding then they are if someone just snaps at them out of the blue. So if one is overwhelmed with PTSD symptoms and loses composure enough to snap at someone I feel that should be treated with more undertanding as well instead of seen as a simple character flaw. I think anyone if they felt overwhelmed and anxious and like everything could just fall apart any minute might get a little irritable.

If I know I am irritable I do my best to prevent it from bothering others I even go somewhere quiet away from people to calm down. I know it doesn't help if everyone jumps on me and tells me how wrong it is that I'm irritable and I have no reason to come off that way since the reality is there is too much and I am doing my damn best not to cause problems for anyone. So I already feel bad making me feel worse wouldn't decrease the likelyhood of becoming irritable if anything it would increase it because I would be under more stress trying not to show any signs whatsoever of irritability.

I agree we cant all just have a free pass to do whatever we feel like to anyone else, I certainly have no right to go take out my PTSD on someone else anymore than a homeless person should take it out on random people that they are homeless. I admit I don't know a hell of a lot about relationships as I have been in very few and they didn't last long so I really can't say much about that.

That last bit certainly makes sense, I mean even outside of PTSD a lot of times people get attached to their significant other. and then when they aren't treated right they want to try and find any reason that could be changed or any way to stay with that person. If they can blame all the problem behaviors on a disorder, then it can make them feel better about staying with them when in reality they should be figuring out how to end the relationship.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

I feel like I need to expand on my original post. As a PTSD sufferer I lose my composure and yell. I've jumped on people verbally and gone on tirades yelling and carrying on at people who had little to no idea that they triggered something in me.

That isn't their responsibility. My behavior and my actions are MY responsibility. Life and other people aren't going to cater to my triggers or my reactions. It is my responsibility to myself and my healing and to the people around me to own the things I say and do. It's PTSD. It's not a pass to behave inappropriately without having to take responsibility for myself.

I do my best to not behave like that with people. But sometimes it does happen. And when it does it doesn't matter what my diagnosis is it's still my responsibility to apologize and own up to it. I'll never learn different ways of coping if I'm not responsible for my actions. I can't speak for other people but I'm guessing that can't be true for only me.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Curious..... Those of you expanding this argument, have you been reading all the posts here in the supporters forum as of late? I think if you have, you know why Nicolette made this thread.

Many of the "symptoms" mentioned by supporters cannot necessarily be blamed on PTSD. I've come across more than one thread where the symptoms seemed to align with PTSD, but in reality there was no definitive correlation as the symptom in question could have been due to a number of things. It just seems easier to blame PTSD. People have a need for a smoking gun. I think it makes them feel better.

 

[InHell11]

nevermind, I have deleted my post.

 

[Nicolette]

I will ask only once more that this thread be kept on topic please. Look up the top - you are in the Supporters Forum', specifically 'Supporter Relationships'. InHell11 Sufferer input is appreciated but this is not about us hearing you defend or rationalise your behaviour.

Like SOL said, read the other new threads in 'this' forum and you will see so many declaring undying love in a new relationship, their Sufferer is not even contacting them and everything that is an undesirable quality, attribute or behaviour is excused as PTSD.

I'm not here to argue what is or is not PTSD - I'm telling these members to take off their rose coloured glasses and find out what is and is not for their Sufferer eg...someone not seeing them may not be due to PTSD, it could be they are out with others of the opposite sex for example.

 

[nursenurse]

Not once has anyone said that folks with PTSD are not worthy of love. They aren't aliens, they have PTSD, and are as worthy of love as anyone else. However,as Nicolette said, it's the undying love for someone who has basically kicked the supporter to the curb in more ways than one, and when you point that out, you are unsupportive, that gets me. I think a lot can be attributed to age, or rather, lack of it, of the new supporters and probably their sufferers. Neither has the experience to go about long term relationships properly in the first place, and I think we have all been there at some point in our lives. But you have to stop beating a dead horse, when he/she disappears.

"It's not you, it's me," is one of the oldest dumping lines in the book. Along with "I'm not good enough." Lets you down easy. How about "I'm just not that into you?" Now there is an honest line. I get that sufferers do truly think badly of themselves, but if you take those lines along with the bad behaviours, then you have someone who has already moved on. Don't blame yourself, or PTSD. It isn't Kharma, it isn't fate. It's not a momentary lapse in the judgement of the sufferer. It is just the way it is, and your relationship is circling the drain.