News Penn State

[anni]

That's the clear-eyed, non-cynical take and 100% true. It'd also be a dandy recourse for those inherantly dishonest, who require an 'out' both in their heads and in the eyes of others to slime their way through whatever assine behaviour they'd like all of us to swallow without a blink. One could bring it full circle in this thread by way of projecting Paterno and McCluskey's phoographs onto the screen here as perpetrators of this dynamic. Opinion only, it's just that no one can convince me their 'legally correct' actions here were the right ones. If that holds up in court it'll be a reflection of the abysmal state of our society and it's values, to be sure. This stuff generally ends up getting 'proven' in our judicial system somewhere, slowly honing societal attitude thereby.

I hate to use the word 'values' since it's been pretty much usurped by factions who use it as their very own personal weapon, and in their parlance merely means what THEY think is what God better think too and everyone else belongs under the heading of pond scum.

I'm not beating the Bible, not being what anyone could term a religious person but have always wondered about the 10 Commandments. If you think about them, they'd be just common sense things for living here together under the premise that a. There is a God and b. He'd like us to get our heads out of our backsides and be nice. That he had to lose his temper and say LOOK PEOPLE, are you KIDDING ME? Then literally write all the rules down in STONE so we'd GET it, already says a LOT. They're really good rules, too. Any area which doesn't fall under one of them is probably something we're making a judgement call on others about, which means it's something which is none of our business. Maybe the 11th one should have been ' Leave others alone with their likes and dislikes, tastes and talents, it'd be a really boring world if everyone was the same, Love, God' ,

It's possible even God did not envision a world where tolerating child rapists was a possibilty or the stone tablets would have been a lot bigger.

 

[Eleanor]

Whether Paterno and McClusky are guilty of anything legally is well beyond my expertise. And law is related to, but not even close to the same as morality. I don't know them well enough to say what their moral failing(s) might have been. But given the harm to the young men who were Sandusky's victims (he gets two hits at least - sexual misconduct and dishonesty here) I'd guess Paterno and McClusky were either greedy, cowards, possibly dishonest or tragically mistaken. I do not in any way wish to minimize what happened to the victims of this appalling crime spree - and I think it is possible that Paterno and McClusky might have screwed up so seriously because of a weird and super destructive homophobic belief matrix - the one where "homosexuals recruit" young men by having sex with them at a young age - thereby re-forming their sexual identities - a thing that is undesirable but better ignored in todays society (in a really really twisted and tortured kind of logic.) This is, frankly, the kindest interpretation I can put on their actions - and one that makes the most sense if they are both deeply repressed homosexuals themselves. So it is pretty out there. And how sad if true. Burning down your house because you don't know how to put out a grease fire pales to insignificance in comparison. And people have believed (do believe) totally crazy things. (Think about the weird views about female anatomy and sexuality that motivate some FGM practices.) The safer money is on the bet that they are just deeply selfish cowards - having worked themselves into prestigious and highly paid positions in the football world they were unwilling to risk it "merely" for the safety of "at risk" boys. Either way, given the degree of harm inflicted (which is knowable on any marginally objective factual analysis of the situation) they each clearly had a duty to stand in the way of harm to a child. (The positive statement of the "don't harm" imperfect duty is "Be Benevolent." but I was getting tired of typing and it was seeming rather a long post....) It doesn't seem to me that it would require much in the way of virtue or knowledge to figure this out... but history might prove me wrong on that; the harm of sexual abuse of children seems to have escaped a great many people. That said, the folks in the local high school who WERE mandated reporters and had the appropriate education and who STILL gave Sandusky unsupervised access to children ought to go to jail.

I have thought about the ten commandments a lot, actually. And I think it is kind of common sense. "If you want to have a functional community - don't do these things." Really, apart from the first two theological ones, there are only eight. (Nerd footnote - different folks have broken them up differently - very nice chart on wikipedia showing the major interpretations - When I count when I read the texts I always get twelve:confused:) And one of them is about taking a day off once a week. (Right, note to self - GOD says you need to rest...:whistling:) So that makes seven. And then there is the one about honoring your parents (there is a confuser!) The biggies are about murder, stealing, adultery, bearing false witness, and envy (twice). Still, to borrow from a Buddhist teacher I listen to, if aliens were watching us and one day set up a loudspeaker and said "People of Earth! We have noticed that things would go much better for you and you would be much happier if you would just Not; steal, commit adultery, lie about things, murder each other, or envy others." I'm guessing no one would argue with the conclusion much. The full Orthodox Hebrew version of the Law is 613 rules long - and written for total dolts in the sexual misconduct area. Clearly this is a problem for a lot of human beings. It also has rules about agriculture and the conduct of war (well, specific wars anyway). It is problematic in that it endorses two instances of genocide (long since passed.) And it also has rules about not gelding animals (a problems for horse people) and not wearing "mixed" fabrics. (confusing in a world of synthetics.) But read sympathetically it does chart a course for social harmony and sustainable living IMHO.

Ok, I've veered off into pedantry...:geek:

 

[BloomInWinter]

The thing about laws, or morals, or the ten commandments, is that for them to work, a person must feel empathy, guilty, sorrow, etc.

None of these things work on psychopaths who feel none of these essential human 'connection' feelings.

When social conventions, manners, dogma require victims to be silent in the face of injustice, predators find easy potential victim pools.

But this is where regulations for reporting can at least identify them before they get to continue harming without consequence.

 

[Eleanor]

Precisely Bloom! Morality is only applicable to (relevant among?) persons with reason and a capacity for sympathy for others. So rabid animals and psychopaths are outside the circle.

Thinking about "Society", I wonder if this isn't just the word we use when groups of people are interdependent but have no actual relationships with each other - that is they are not a "community" (which is a word that, to me, has overtones of connection and caring about each other.) Maybe that is why "society" is so messed up - because without the personal "fellow feeling" connection no one is sufficiently motivated to help each other out. And it is easier for psychopaths (and sociopaths) to hide. In a smaller and more "tightly knit" community would it be better? Or worse? Don't know. Maybe, in this respect, it really is about the quality of community (I am thinking here about La Chambon, and the Danes and the like their resistance to Nazis and others). What is required for that? And that line of reflection leads one to think that there is something seriously wrong with the "Happy Valley Community". :(

At the other end of the spectrum - I am visiting a small town in Iowa right now, and the local fitness center is starting a campaign to reduce obesity in the community (which is a problem) The folks here have a culture that is proactive - but always has been from what I can tell. Living in that sort of community has its discomforts - but they do tend to deal with stuff head on. One of the neighbors (in his 70's) told me a story about his Dad and some neighbor men when they lived out on the farm. One of the neighbors had a pretty big dairy herd, and had his children doing all the milking and a lot of the labor - so they would get to school exhausted and were tired all the time. The neighbors did the math, decided he could afford to hire a man to help him, and several men went over to his house one afternoon with a rope - and told him that he needed to hire someone and take care of those children right, or they would be back with the rope and use it next time. Low and behold, he hired a man the next day - and the children were off the hook. Different times - but I think the principle and the practice are food for thought. How much should we rely on institutions to enforce community standards?

 

[cdinwv]

There should never be a standard protocol in any instution, religious organization, nonprofit organizations or corporations about child abuse, sexual abuse, or any other forms of human brutality that produce harm. It should be against the law. I know there has to be separation of church and state or keep out government meddling or ya,da, da.

But you must read and acknowledge this---that if any members, sponsors or board of directors agree to these such policies of "standard protocol' to deny public protection against these child abusers or abusers within your own facilities then you become the enabler to these criminals and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law with them especially if you agree to conceal the criminals, enable the abuse, and fail to seek law enforcement to these criminals that commit these crimes.

"Standard Protocol" for these types of written script should be announced to the public that they are enablers and faciliators of abuse to children and other human beings. Sports is no different than religion and colleges are no different than any church that internally "handles" these types of situations. Quit taking these "stand protocols" as an excuse and treat it as the crimes and criminals they are.

Until Americans start deciphering right and wrong in their own personal activities and affiliations of programs and activities, nothing will ever change to stop abuse against children. There is never an excuse nor should be for "standard protocol" in any written form of code of rules or by board of directors that can enable and faciliate child abuse and be swept into a closet of silence. We all hold a moral obligation to uphold the law of the USA to protect the innocent and prosecute the guilty. Not give them a reprieve of "standard protocol".

 

[Girl3]

Eleanor describes a society that acts/acted in a cohesive way that seems "right".

When I was 14 I was raped by the first string of the state champion high school basketball team. The society in which I lived in 1974 decided that I was a slut that deserved what I got. I was shunned by so-called pillars of society including women, who determined that I was the sole responsible party because I asked for a ride to my best friend's house. Her 19 year old boyfriend was the person I asked for a ride.

The next day, in a motel in another town, I was bleeding, barely able to stand, and was told by a doctor who examined me later that i would never be able to bear children based on the damage done to me.

Right and wrong may seem carved in stone, but people really do interpret it the way it seems to them. In the society I grew up, a girl who got raped was nearly always to blame for being provocative in some way. While I know in my heart now that what they did was immoral - for decades I felt imprinted with what society had deemed: it was my fault.

I have taken care of a lot of people over the past twenty years - and many, especially women - have told me things that let me know that while the Ten Commandments are written in stone, how morality works in society is quite variable.