Pity Parties

[Meadowsweet]

(b) It isn't factual, it's emotive. [...] I still don't understand why someone feels in a position to make this judgement and respond in this way.

I think this is a good point. The first bit, that it's emotive language is an awareness that is useful to consider when using it; it is a provocation of emotion. In that way it can have a positive effect on a person who has given up on themselves. I think, when we can't fight the demons inside, it can help to fight for a cause, or to fight it out (in discussion only) with another person.

From what I read here, that's how I imagine al-anon to use it as part of a therapeutic process.

But the question of why someone feels in a position to make the judgement to respond this way is something that I think it is worthwhile anybody using emotive language to consider.

 

[Nicolette]

But the question of why someone feels in a position to make the judgement to respond this way is something that I think it is worthwhile anybody using emotive language to consider.

That's easy - frustration after attempts to lift the person or highlight positives for them to hold on to yet they continue and dismiss all effort invested in them. Perhaps even exasperation!

 

[Meadowsweet]

That's easy - frustration after attempts to lift the person or highlight positives for them to hold on to yet they continue and dismiss all effort invested in them. Perhaps even exasperation!

I think that's when you are on dangerous ground. When you are frustrated and exasperated, it is maybe better to step back and look at why it's effecting you that way first. Otherwise the expression is being used because it gets rid of your frustration, rather than because it helps the other person.

On the other hand, maybe it is good to clear the air and release frustration. It lets others see how you are feeling.

I'm undecided on this.

But, Albatross used the argument earlier in the thread that the use of this phrase can be judged on the intent of the person using it. If you are using it as an expression or irritation, then perhaps it isn't said wholly to help the other person.

I'm not judging. I genuinely don't have an understanding of acceptable boundaries in emotive situations, which is why I might seem questioning and analytical.

 

[Hashi]

That's easy - frustration after attempts to lift the person... Perhaps even exasperation!

But that was exactly my point. Why not explain that you're frustrated, exasperated etc, instead of "diagnosing" them as being excessively self-pitiful? Why make them wrong, just because they haven't responded the way you think they should have done?

I haven't lived someone else's life, I'm not in someone else's head now, I don't know everything about them - how can I measure how much self-pity is OK or how long for? How can I even know that my attempts to help them were appropriate for them at that time? Maybe I was trying to get them to move forward when they really needed someone to listen and validate what they were going through, and this is the fall out. Maybe their anxiety was so great they could barely even hear me, even the seventh time. Maybe any number of things.

All I can know for sure is how I feel and the effect on me. So why not say that, or set the boundaries I need and act on them, without feeling I'm in a position to evaluate the person and tell them how I think they scored?

 

[Springer80]

Hang on isn't this a post traumatic stress forum? Isn't the main feature of the condition a re-living of the events in awareness or not. If you are in awareness and cant get help wouldn't that cause you further distress, over time would that need to deep rooted behavioural issues and wouldn't you come to a forum for help, companionship and solace. What's with the pernicious judgemental stone-throwing?

 

[Red Feather]

I think this conversation is about judgment. I don't like it when somebody judges me. I don't think anybody likes it. But I guess the question is if one person has the authority or right to judge another, and in which circumstance. Usually if someone is judged without wanting to hear the judgment, then he or she normally reacts against it, and it does not help the person. It can even block the person even more. I think this is common knowledge isn't it? But if a person is really looking for help, then hearing criticism or judgment can be really profitable.

So I think the term is not really good. Because as soon as somebody really wants to change and find solutions, a pity party, is not an accurate description anymore. Am I making sense?

 

[Nicolette]

Springer80 I will say that is interesting when as a supporter I have had to digest cruel, mean and unwarranted comments driven by PTSD and accept them as that. I've been told to "suck it up" when expressing my thoughts & feelings yet as a supporter it is a sin to say "get over it". I'm sorry but sometimes telling someone they are having a pity party is no less offensive/judgemental than being told " you don't understand" after doing everything in your power to and being road blocked with negativity and self pity at every turn.

 

[Springer80]

telling someone they are having a pity party is no less offensive/judgemental than being told " you don't understand" after doing everything in your power to and being road blocked with negativity and self pity at every turn.

I don't agree, one is an impartial factual statement the other infers a self serving contrived standpoint. Perhaps as a supporter you should have this discussion in that forum area. Its obviously an unresolved sore point for you and something which is hard to overcome when neither side can stand in each others shoes.

 

[Nicolette]

I was expecting that answer from you Springer80 and will highlight that I am also a sufferer... I was just presenting an example.

 

[Springer80]

Well I'm glad you have all the bases covered, well done. Is anyone else getting a touch of irony? Thats my lot on this thread.

 

[The Albatross]

The question is... to use an analogy... if you are a friend or have a vested interest in the well being of a person and they are sleep walking out the door onto a busy freeway, do you try to startle them awake or just speak softly and hope they wake up? Like I said, it's a "denial buster."

In recovery circles where I got it, to drink is to die... or there are other consequences, wet brain, insanity, incarceration. It can literally be life and death if someone relapses. I got no trouble, shouldering some hurt feelings, if I use "pity party" on somebody (though like I said I doubt I'd use it here on a mental health forum) if they don't respond to other attempts to turn them away from drinking themselves to death.

But I said as much before, carry on.

 

[Nicolette]

Well I'm glad you have all the bases covered, well done. Is anyone else getting a touch of irony?

What, because I knew that because I was giving an example based on my experience as a supporter that the easiest way to dismiss my view point would be to tell me to go into the other forum?