Political Venting

[Chris-duck]

I did not insult you. But ill back off anyway because yeah youre not someone i wish to engage with further.

 

[shimmerz]

Wild. It was you attacking me. Then, another insult. Why thank you. I have you on ignore. I don't need random insults thanks.

 

[anthony]

Every video posted is very one sided and deliberately inflammatory.

@shimmerz I am going to agree with @Chris-duck on this one. You are posting very one sided, half baked videos, which are that, that flame of "inflammatory and exciting" click bait type nonsense Youtube is full, with no end in sight with that rabbit hole.

The one just posted, one lawyers opinion on a specific case, claiming the time taken and the method used to enter for a welfare check, was all wrong and did not pose an emergency. The very common-sense argument to that is, the police are not going to break down the door and put their own lives at higher risk to be shot, by someone inside who has guns, is possibly armed, and they have the drop on anyone potentially entering a doorway. That is a good, common-sense, risk assessment by anyone going into a space with an armed person.

That video is cut and pasted of content to appease and be exciting, none of which is a true account of that specific case. Sure, one argument is laws are broken, the other is the person was in apparent danger of self-harm and the police did their job in a safe manner. That is for a court to decide, not a hit piece lawyer on Youtube drumming up anger and excitement in people to get mad and protest about his very limited side of the case.

If you were a cop, would you, A: break down the door claiming emergency, and enter guns blazing to be potentially shot, OR, B: break down the door in a safe manner, where you are protected from being potentially shot. I would take option B every time, and I would recommend anyone with a healthy respect for their own life to choose that option. That is the option the police chose, and this lawyer formed a radical argument against that side of the equation, negating it entirely.

If you are going to post things, then they need to handle scrutiny.

 

[shimmerz]

The point I was trying to make was that if this was the way ICE agents were coming into houses then I thought it was terrifying. No questions were asked of me - 'what are you trying to get to', just an attack. Am I supposed to open myself to that? What happened to - ignore and move on?

 

[shimmerz]

I want to thank you @anthony for the tone of your post. I appreciate the respectful tone in it.

 

[KA60]

ICE scares me. The public is being desensitized to violence daily. Morality has become situationally unstable. I fear people's brains are being retired to accept this violence and chaos non stop as normal
.

 

[Tinyflame]

I can only say from where I am in Canada the overwhelming majority are shocked and astonished even more so by the American public's support of Trump, even more so than the bizarre claims and numbers he quotes. Many Canadians say people do not suddenly lose all their freedoms, they do so gradually until they wake up one day and none are left. And that not knowing history dooms it's repetition. Almost without exception where I live people express being appalled and saddened, too. We share a border to a state with ICE raids, and it has been horrific to see in what was once a beloved and benign neighbour, ally and nation.

I do think there seems to be a lack of fact checking and revving up of hatred and justification. Also a push towards blame and a belief that Authoritarianism begets freedom.

I also wonder for those too have been deported, especially those working for decades and raising families, what now happens to their property, etc?

Just a footnote @shimmerz , as regards the Freedom Convoy, after being stuck in it (for hours, not days) it is a wonder I didn't lose my mind, let alone ptsd. For those trying to work, live and care for others including the dying it was anything but tolerable but torturous. The bouncy castles and such seemed pretty surreal, even with tolerance. A lot of good people who didn't deserve it were affected in bad ways and those consequences seemed irrelevant. JMHE of course. Everyone has their own perspective and thoughts.

 

[shimmerz]

For those trying to work, live and care for others including the dying it was anything but tolerable but torturous.

Yes, I can see that; The honking of horns was not something I approved of at all. And yes, I think I posted above (or maybe just thought about it?) Viva Frei interviewing a front line worker who said that the trucks at the beginning were impeding emergency vehicle access.

The bouncy castles and such seemed pretty surreal, even with tolerance.

The bouncy castles were for the children who had been locked inttheir houses without any interaction with other children for over a year. Many of us had been taking groups of children to parks when the parks were shut down because the children were going mad. We set up schools that they could go to and make friends at. What happened to our children through CVID time wasn't cool. So, no, within our group, there was nothing out of place with the bouncy castles. We were supporting our children so they could socialize and make friends.

The Canadian government was insane with their restrictions. Quebec was under night curfew! So many people lost their jobs because they did not believe in government forcing shots on them. I think our rights, @Tinyflame, have been overshot over many things - not just around migrants. And I agree, they shouldn't be.

The trucker'[s protest was to protect truckers rights to pass over the border to do their jobs without being forced to take that shot. We had already seen nurses lose their jobs (you know - the people who were painted as heros a short time before). Why was our government even attempting to dictate what was in the best interests of our own personal health?

So what do we do as a population? If protesting isn't the right thing to do - what is?

I don't want to see people shot on the streets either. Nor do I want to see our population overrun. I want to see safe streets.
I understand that streets are safer now in DC where the military had boots on the ground. I don't like to see military on the streets, but why were the streets there so unsafe in the first place? If they are now safe, wouldn't we all want that?

I have been accursed on this thread of many things - just because I am not anti-Trump. I am not pro-Trump either. I am pro whatever the f*ck it takes to give people back their freedoms to walk the streets without being attacked or murdered or raped. I want my grandchildren to be safe from street drugs that will kill them.

But first and foremost I should be able to safely say my piece and not be mocked and insulted and name called. Maybe if we start with our own attitudes towards each other..... with the idea that we all deserve to live in a peaceful environment. So perhaps speaking about what will get us there that we can all agree on.

I hope you will all consider your own reactions to those that you politically disagree with. I won't respond to this thread again unless someone calls me in and only if it is around discussion so my children and grandchildren don't have to live with all this complete garbage while they are trying to work and go to school. I won't respond to insults and bad behaviour. That's not what debate is.

 

[Tinyflame]

I am sorry @shimmerz if you feel disrespected, and that was certainly not my intent and if it caused you to feel such I apologize.

I agree that listening and dialogue within the microcosms of family, social media, etc is needed and reflective of the macrocosm. If we can't achieve it within our own 'homes' how can we expect to do it nationally and globally?

I do believe we have more in common than we know, including some shared experiences such as pandemic restrictions and grief and loss, dreams destroyed as well as livelihoods.

What makes me pause (in general, not from anyone's comments here) is the absence of fact checking that seems to be out there. That is, because something is said it is therefore true (and honest). There is a saying 'consider the source' of a comment or action and who or what they stand to gain. I think trying to draw logical conclusions from flawed premises will result in an inaccurate conclusion. As is the use of appeal to emotion also, in lieu of having an actual argument. A causal relationship can also be tricky. It has become easier to rely on social media than to dig deeper on one's own apart from social media. Propaganda is by definition the spreading of inaccurate info for a particular intent. And every generalization is a fallacy, such as all immigrants are illegal, or criminals. Much as falsely saying all poor people are criminals, or people of color are (x), or women are (y), or men are (z). A lot of cognitive distortions when I think it out loud.

But equally, some have a broader education of global history. Others are aware of facts we are not privy to. Everyone has their own personal experiences and beliefs of what they feel the causes (and therefore the solutions) are. In our hearts we know what is an inhumane or humane action. We recognize threats and bullying. We recognize terror. For some people the truth is that that what the average person might deem conscience is also irrelevant, and that has to be factored in. But disunity at this time in history won't help achieve rights or peace IMO. We don't have to choose to drink any kool aid simply because it is offered. We could choose to say let me know more and help me understand better.

I think a place to start is equal treatment and regard for humanity, and within the rule of law. Or work to change a law if you disagree, And applying emotional regulation techniques, which we are familiar of speaking with here but isn't in style to consider. But I also believe we need defense of those who are treated as less or expendable. We are human beings deserving of dignity. And to know that when we have a hammer everything can look like a nail. This time in history bears similarities to other times and actions that did not end well. Hopefully we don't repeat it thinking it bears no similarity.

 

[shimmerz]

the absence of fact checking that seems to be out there.

No, @Tinyflame it was not you that was disrespectful. And my experience on this thread has not been just a feeling. I am over it.

I recognize tjhe role played by the absence of facts. The definition of 'facts' seem to be just the problem. People dying during protests because they 'know' 'the facts. People attacking others because their facts don't match. How has our society deluded themselves into believing that any of us could possibly know what the facts are given the politics?

I think what is closer to the truth is that our governments f*ck with facts - delude us into thinking we know wtf we are talking about and we absolutely don't. How else could trump get away with telling us all to stfu when we demand on holding pedophiles and worse accountable - with Bondi screaming 'but the DOW, but the economy!' What a clown show.

They need to stop bringing murderers and rapists into our countries. They need to stop giving away money when countries can't even take care of their own citizens. They need to put the people ahead of profits and assign captial punishment to those who dare to harm our children. We need to insist that we extract ourselves from this abusive relationship with our government and stop being enraged at each other. We need to start imagining and working towards how we can ensure our children and grandchildren are gifted with leaders that are not corrupt, murderous, thieving pieces of shit.

 

[KA60]

ICE scares me. The public is being desensitized to violence daily. Morality has become situationally unstable. I fear people's brains are being retired to accept this violence and chaos non stop as normal
.

I think some of the problem is the lack of respect for law enforcement. That isn't as big an issue here in Australia, but it seems a significant issue in America. All cops worldwide get some level of shit, but that level has significant deviations from country to country.

I agree with this comment. Lack of respect no filters with law enforcement. I live in the US. Since the rise in violence associated with ICE however I carry with me in my purse my birth certificate marriage certificate the ESA letter for my dogs proof of car insurance etc. I have a real ID and since I am a brain injury survivor I have a card identifying me as such from a law group. I also realize law enforcement could have ptsd like me so I would need to monitor my reactions. I have a passport application. Should get one next payday. I want it for additional ID. Better safe than sorry

 

[KA60]

I can't deal with the lies, with the gaslighting. It absolutely enrages me.

I can't handle it either. I installed an anger app on my my phone one week ago where I post my anger issue. By date. It also let's me post a happy event too. It has helped
I also installed an app that goes the neurology of anger which I review.