Programs

[PlainJane]

My idea was to blow it up completely rather than re-enforce it but perhaps the idea of making a safe spot inside would be a good one at least to keep me out of the elements in case my idea to wipe it out is a little ambitious (as is my MO).

Yep, I can see why that is ideal. As for me and my programming it was more than an epic fail when I attempted to make drastic changes to fast :meh: I guess I would hope that your safe place would be almost more than your safe place. do you know what I mean? A place that you have set to go to when you need it but also a place to go to when you're ok. Where you created good memories already, to revisit. Thus changing the idea of "where do you go where you have no where to go?" Maybe instead of blowing up your programming, consider reprogramming. Change the phrases a little. dont think of it as just a safe spot. Every single person on this earth needs an escape from their life, disorders or not. Man caves, bathtubs w/candles, clubhouse etc. regardless of these areas that people go to unwind they have something good to associate with it. Obviously this is all easier said. I may be taking in circles and I know it may not be for you. But I know I want to hear or read everything I can and personally apply it if practical. Anyway I hope you find something that works for you!!

 

[Chava]

Not sure how your house is set up, but I hide in the bathroom because it is 100% interior (also small....and with a sink and toilet you have the feeling you could survive there a long time if needed, though that is rarely the case for me). My bathroom has not exterior house walls. It does feel safe. So yes, if you can't separate the run-in or run-out impulses, go for safety, wherever you can find it. Small interior room with teddy bear or pocket knife, small room curled into a blanket for feelings of protection and containment?

The really old patterns/programs are hard to recognize so it's excellent you have some of this understanding. Your adult need to remain helpful witness, and the one with resources....but the little one can just find pure safety, wrapped up in a blanket, curled in a ball, even sitting in a closet or in the corner of a room....whatever feels "safe" enough)....if you listen compassionately, your body will sort it out without any logical thought on your own part. Your adult part is only able to provide ideas or resources, but it has to think immobilized. I use sound, we know. Any other inner resources? Breathing? Cooing? Humming? Squirming? Just curling into a tiniest of balls?

:hug:

 

[joeylittle]

Just a little observation - your answer to my question, 'What sets off the thought', is

Feeling like I need to leave a house.

I think you need to know what thought sets off the feeling that you need to leave the house. So basically, you need the step before that. Kind of the same as the question, 'where do you go when there is no-where to go?' - by the time you are asking that question, you already need to go. So what sets off the need to go? You referred to a feeling of being unwelcome - which makes sense. But what specifically is setting off that feeling?

In the past, it would have been something very memorable, and I've read some of those in your diary. But what's interesting about these kinds of triggers (I find) is that they aren't replicas of past events - it's the strangest little stuff. But I promise, there's something that happens, and it spurs a feeling that something is wrong, and then you get the thought, 'I need to leave/go', followed by ' there's nowhere to go', and increasing feeling of dread, probably, and nearly-unconscious motor activity.

Is this making sense?

 

[shimmerz]

But what specifically is setting off that feeling?

Specific words and actions. Hostility in the eyes. Contempt. Usually relating to people not understanding my reactivity to something. Words that say 'I don't want you here' and I feel caught because I have no other place to go (as most know housing has been an issue for me since the PTSD). Feeling caught leads to disorientation. Extreme disorientation where I can't get my bearings as to where I am (even if I know the place well). It is like I have never been there before.

Not certain if that helps at all JL or if you need something more specific.

This started when the domestic violence happened right before this bout of PTSD. However, I do have Children's Aid documentation that states the same thing occurred during the transfer to my adoptive home. There were also notes that I was kept outside in cold months because I was a 'monster' in foster homes and that I did 'escape' from foster homes somehow. As a child after being adopted I was rarely in the house and during my teenage years my mother locked me down in the house (in a very hostile environment) and I suffered what I believe to be a PTSD reactivation at that time. So it seems like consistent behaviour. So perhaps (after all of that) I can say a 'perceived or real' sense of hostility in a home (not outside) sets it off.

 

[joeylittle]

Usually relating to people not understanding my reactivity to something.

So this might actually be backing up the trigger even more - since, as I understand the chain, it's now:

• you have a reaction to something
• it is met with (perceived) hostility **I believe it stems from real hostility, but now I think you may sometimes be anticipating the response, which is why I'm using the word 'perceived.'
• You think you don't belong / feel fear
• You think you need to get out/run/escape / fear escalates
• You don't have anywhere to go / sets off random escape pattern.

It probably seems annoying, what I'm asking. But I have been noticing that with myself and some auto-responses, I have been aware for a fairly long time where they come from, in a kind of connecting-them-to-the-trauma sense, but not actually aware of how they get set off, really. Like, what is the core of the core belief?

Bad example: i have struggled with a self-harm problem. And I understand its related to self-loathing. But I recently finally figured out that it's specifically related to what happens when I believe I've ruined an experience. So, at 10am I can teach a class and not handle a student well. And at 10pm I can be having a real urge to hurt myself. But I did not actually make the right connection for a long time. I'd know I was hating myself, and then I'd kind of go to the full list of reasons I hate myself (one of which is I ruin things).

By understanding this more specifically, that it's tied to the self-loathing that builds up in me when I believe I've irreversably ruined a moment in time that I value - then, it's possible for me to just stop and interrogate that particular thought, and usually defuse it.

This took me like a year to understand, but when it clicked, it helped me rewrite a very dangerous, nearly uncontrollable behavior.

Anyway, this is just how I look at this stuff. Take it or leave it, truly.

 

[shimmerz]

It probably seems annoying, what I'm asking.

Absolutely not at all annoying. I really appreciate your input and sharing your experience as well.

So this might actually be backing up the trigger even more - since, as I understand the chain, it's now:

• you have a reaction to something

I actually am backing it up with a 'potential for a reaction' as well.

As an example. The night I left to go to the airport to come out to BC from Ontario, my youngest son asked me to stay at his house so he could drive me to the airport 'As long as I didn't have a panic attack'. BOOM! Fear of the fright is what I call it. 'I can go to this house as long as I don't' .... insert errant behaviour here. So in fact, this is real on many levels and has been for some time. Which is, of course, adding to it all. What is the common theme? House. We don't want you in our house, and if you do happen to come to our house and have ANY type of reaction, that won't be good for us so make sure that doesn't happen.

specifically related to what happens when I believe I've ruined an experience.

So then the question of difference here is do I just believe that I am not wanted in a house(s) in the NOW which re-enforces the THEN, or is that an actual fact? the problem is, and I would love to be challenged on it - is this simply a belief that I have turned into a fact irrationally, or is it in fact, a fact?

Not certain that makes any sense either. *heavy sigh* I so appreciate your sharing your story and I am so happy that you have found a way around this issue. It sounds like it was very serious.... and when we break those one's, boy oh boy, is that an experience!

 

[sun seeker]

Blue - outside hiding
Not Blue - inside retraumatizing myself
Green - ?

Outside with lots of warm blankets and a hot water bottle, which a friend would keep refilling for you, until you are ready to come in?

Far from ideal, I realize. Just opening a tiny window of possibility to perhaps ease the fear/urgency of getting this sorted before winter.

I am still reading through all the responses to this posting and sorting through all the information. I just want to express my gratitude for how supportive everyone is being. This isn't my thread, but the situation being discussed is very important to me, and I am touched in a way I can't quite describe by what I see happening here. Thank you everyone.

 

[joeylittle]

What is the common theme? House. We don't want you in our house, and if you do happen to come to our house and have ANY type of reaction, that won't be good for us so make sure that doesn't happen.

For what it's worth, another common theme (I think) is your illness, or 'wrongness'. I'm kind of linking that with the 'there's nowhere (for me) to go' thought.

So then the question of difference here is do I just believe that I am not wanted in a house(s) in the NOW which re-enforces the THEN, or is that an actual fact? the problem is, and I would love to be challenged on it - is this simply a belief that I have turned into a fact irrationally, or is it in fact, a fact?

Easy to challenge - where are you living right now, and are you welcome there, and is it a house?

Because of experiences in the THEN, you've endowed situations in the NOW with beliefs/assumptions that are not factually true; or if they are true, they have source reasons other than the reasons you experienced them in the THEN.

Your son not wanting you to have a panic attack is not actually because of you. It's your son's reaction to a thing. Now, you are associated with that thing, but you are not the cause of his reaction. His reaction is his own.

Anyway, have a think about the illness/wrongness vs. houses. I'm suspecting that what gets triggered is your belief that you are somehow, a sickness, or a wrongness, or a monster of some kind. And then your desire to do what you think is the right thing (these are your values coming into play) drives you away from the person and their turf. If you've got any identification with the notion that it's like you are a freak and somehow contagious, that would indicate I might be on the right track. However - it really could be more about homes, and rejection - I'm just picking up on what I think an alternative option might be.

This stuff is hard, no doubt.
/end thread-dominating :lurking:

 

[jaccat]

This is really basic and may do nothing for you:

I've an issue with safety in houses, nothing to your level, but enough to seriously mess with me. I've lately been doing something suggested by my T that seems to be helping, though I have no idea why it's helping. It's for when you're not triggered:

Every day I walk around the house, showing myself that there is no danger here and it is safe. I do the walk 'mindfully', imagining I am taking little me along, so she can see that we are safe now. I check all the windows and doors are locked- I've even looked under beds and in wardrobes because that's what little me seems to want to do. She's leading it, not me.

Since I've started doing this I have begun sleeping better than I ever remember doing, and I am just a tiny bit more relaxed.

My 'inner child' is older though- around 6 years old. It may be it won't work for you. I also do feel like a right idiot at times doing it, but if it works...

I don't suppose for a minute it would help fix things, but possibly just reinforcing that you are safe now on a daily basis may slowly help to get through to the child you?

 

[shimmerz]

/end thread-dominating

You aren't dominating at all JL. You are helping and I thank you.

Your son not wanting you to have a panic attack is not actually because of you. It's your son's reaction to a thing. Now, you are associated with that thing, but you are not the cause of his reaction. His reaction is his own.

This is a good reminder. Thank you. I knew this at one time but forget it when it comes to 'houses'.

Easy to challenge - where are you living right now, and are you welcome there, and is it a house?

Yes I am completely welcome here. Until I cause problems (perceived ) and then I think the word monster comes up in my head - the part that was labeled a monster and she can't bear being a monster I think. I can't possibly cause someone grief in their house. I know how horrifying that can be. It gets, of course, much deeper than that.

Two days ago we were able to 'catch' my misinterpretation of a phrase that was used. I was already triggered into that state a few days prior so was very open to scanning for not being wanted. It was a different outcome. I whacked out, it was caught very quickly by Sun and there were two other witnesses. We figured out a keyword that Sun used 'Uh oh' that brought a bit of my 'NOWSELF' back in and I repeated the phrase over and over again to see how it was being misinterpreted by me. I keep visualizing it (although I can't recall the phrase for the life of me) so I can wire it in more strongly. I may, as @Eleanor mentioned, need some sort of help with this, but for now I just keep playing over how I had to go through the process of challenging the sensitivity of my brain as it 'looks for dangerous phrases', like I don't want you here, or your presence is upsetting to me, or get lost in any way.

And I walked outside this morning and looked at the firewood again .... winter is coming, winter is coming. I need to take up skiiing or something again to overlay that somehow.

Every day I walk around the house, showing myself that there is no danger here and it is safe. I do the walk 'mindfully', imagining I am taking little me along, so she can see that we are safe now. I check all the windows and doors are locked- I've even looked under beds and in wardrobes because that's what little me seems to want to do. She's leading it, not me.

This is something else I can add to the arsenal. For me it is more about the person(s) in the house, so Sun and I were speaking about (somewhere farther along), joking around with phrases that hurt..... 'get outta here' while bantering, idk, things like that. I feel like switching the emotion around is important as well here. I will use many of the strategies here.

I have to be honest, this is one of the MOST challenging things I have to work with. And just to clarify - Sun is awesome and has NEVER led me to believe (without this program which is distorting things) that I am NOT wanted. As a matter of fact, she has taken me in with open arms and has been completely 'partnering' with me. It is beautiful and I have never felt anything like it.

 

[Eleanor]

I just want to point out - in case anyone has not taken the time to notice this - how totally and amazingly world shatteringly awesome and wise and compassionate this thread/discussion is. The Earth might well tilt slightly on its axis due to stuff like this. In a good way.

 

[Ronin]

@shimmerz, how I meant with the move - I was literal about thoughts being racing, and it taking a toll on you physically, so a kind of literal, just not moving in space around; moving in the space that's your body.

But I think since we are a space on its own :p, it would work if understood literally & as about outside as well.

Okay, the 1 yo runner you - thing is though, even the thought of 'get away', however much projected back to feelings of younger age, is pretty brilliant. One year olds physically tend to sit up, wonder bout the world around, and cry because they don't know what on earth just happened and how to go back to sleep. Or anything similar with the sudden needs. What your one year old did is 'Need run, help!' and what you did with that is grab words & come to us with requests of how to fix that stuff. Brilliant cooperation, you two! ;)

Question (bit I'm unclear on / trying to understand better) : Dropping: why is it scary & what does it mean? (When you drop, what happens with you?)

And totally will remind you, with cookies too. ;)