PTSD married to Passive Aggressive

[Clara1974]

Hey @brat17 - well first off I feel like giving you some medals for staying in that home and even trying to re-decorate it. So well done you! It must really be worth it if you are trying again after a ten year break. I'd just like to hear that you are feeling happy.

IF he did give the pup something that upset it's tummy - he's a complete prick. Has he shown any interest in the pup before this? Or is his sudden concern making you suspicious?

If he did make the pup sick... I'd get some of the diarrhea and put it in his f*kin soup for when he comes home.. lol... then when he's sitting up half the night in the bathroom... ask how he's going...

**No.. don't take my advice I'm a vindictive bitch.. lol

Hahaha thanks that's made my day i'll remember that i might use it some day ;) xxx

 

[mamachick]

Wow there are some really thought out responses and I really appreciate all of them and want to address them. Some I have to really think about. However, the first thing that I have to do is admit that I now believe my suspicion was totally unwarranted. The pup is fine and just has loose stool. I have same stomach upset past couple of days. Then I remembered that H was complaining of being up all night Friday with stomach cramps. We had a boil order for 48 hrs last week and they said not to shower in it even-I didn't, he did. I was giving pup bottled water during this time, then ran faucet for what I thought was adequate. I emptied ice maker a couple times but apparently not enough. I also forgot the pup was drinking water from garden hose over weekend which had not been drained. I now believe it is very likely that this is all from bad water and will call vet in am. I was up all night with this.

Back to original post. The fact that I have distrust like this is concerning for sure, even if I have good reasons from past behaviors. He is definitely not sociopath, has avoidant communication that has complicated life, ADHD could be considered maybe as well as some other things. We have a certain level of friendship and companionship that most of the time works for us at our age and circumstances. I do admit that although he has denied PA behaviors (deliberate), PA s always do deny. However, since its been put out on the table, he has gotten better during the past 2-3 yrs.

The fact that I jump to such conclusion, I hate about myself and feel ashamed. I think I should be able to see this more realistically and most all the comments could see, but I was blinded by this skepticism and fear of being conned/gaslighted again in this relationship. I guess my guard is up, and I don't know how to let go of that. In hindsight, my initial conclusion seem ridiculous. We lost a dog last April and another this March. I often gave them table treats at the end of dinner and H is likely just following what I have always done by wanting to give to pup (though way too young).

I need to re-read some of the longer posts and give more thought to them because there is some really good content there and things for me to consider. Right now I feel very vulnerable and discouraged as I really do not have a good sense of who and when to trust. I thought I was making strides at this and I see-not so much.

 

[Sideways]

I thought I was making strides at this and I see-not so much.

I reckon you’re making plenty awesome strides here. We can’t do anything about issues that we have no insight into, and that’s oftentimes really painful. But you haven’t done anything wrong, yeah? You’re reflecting over things in a totally appropriate place and in a totally appropriate way.

I’m not quite sure where along the lines passive aggression became a “thing” that people “are”. It’s just a form of communication, and one that most people engage in plenty often. It’s just not very effective. But being passive aggressive sometimes doesn’t in or of itself mean that he has a particular personality type - it’s just a form of communication he uses sometimes, yeah?

To me, just as an observer, you’ve identified that maybe you’ve still got some trust issues (which would probably make a whole lot of sense). But, maybe you haven’t entirely forgiven him for the past yet, either? Maybe there’s still some open wounds, and it’s not so much the painting, or the housework, or the dog pooping everywhere...maybe there’s just still some pain sitting there...

Which would be okay too...?

 

[Deanna]

I think you're right Sideways! We always have to look at ourselves. I admit, the only reason I was interested in the thread because it was about PA, which I absolutely couldn't handle. After further ?, it turned Into painting and re-decorating which are totally my absolute love! I don't think the OP should be apologetic. We all learn.

 

[Sideways]

which I absolutely couldn't handle.

Passive aggression can be as simple as rolling your eyes when someone says something you don’t like, or don’t agres with.

Maybe I haven’t been following social media trends or something, but it seems almost like “PA” is replacing “narc” as the next mystified, horrible insult to throw at people. When the reality is that it’s something that the majority of people do...a lot.

The reason I bring that up is adding “I can’t cope with anyone who can be passive aggressive” could quickly turn into a really distorted, and dysfunctional narrative to have about yourself. Probably the most banal forms of passive aggression we can cope with, because it happens so often.

 

[Gs172003]

I reckon you’re making plenty awesome strides here. We can’t do anything about issues that we have no insight into, and that’s oftentimes really painful. But you haven’t done anything wrong, yeah? You’re reflecting over things in a totally appropriate place and in a totally appropriate way.

I’m not quite sure where along the lines passive aggression became a “thing” that people “are”. It’s just a form of communication, and one that most people engage in plenty often. It’s just not very effective. But being passive aggressive sometimes doesn’t in or of itself mean that he has a particular personality type - it’s just a form of communication he uses sometimes, yeah?

To me, just as an observer, you’ve identified that maybe you’ve still got some trust issues (which would probably make a whole lot of sense). But, maybe you haven’t entirely forgiven him for the past yet, either? Maybe there’s still some open wounds, and it’s not so much the painting, or the housework, or the dog pooping everywhere...maybe there’s just still some pain sitting there...

Which would be okay too...?

To me being truly passive aggressive means pretending to be helpful or nice while simultaneously intentionally hurting/ sabotaging/etc someone else. I don't see that as a communication style, I see that as being toxic. However, I feel like that words passive aggressive are just like everything else...used for any and everything people get mad at. Just my .02

 

[Tinyflame]

The fact that I jump to such conclusion, I hate about myself and feel ashamed. I think I should be able to see this more realistically and most all the comments could see, but I was blinded by this skepticism and fear of being conned/gaslighted again in this relationship. I guess my guard is up, and I don't know how to let go of that. In hindsight, my initial conclusion seem ridiculous. We lost a dog last April and another this March

Aw @brat17 , please don't feel ashamed (though I 'get' it), that was awesomely-quick processing already, and everything takes practice. And it's more likely to be harder to manage (everything, and in general) when tired, sad, and in pain (of which you're dealing with all of them). And sometimes too when alone. Plus, the sheer fear, especially after recently losing your other dogs, certainly I'd expect to be under your thoughts.

I learned only this (hope it is helpful): supposedly our core beliefs act as the basis for our thought conclusions, and many thoughts arise when triggered especially. Those thoughts extrapolate to other thoughts based on associations, and we 'feel' (literally-!!) the thoughts in the form of emotions. We then draw conclusions which go back to our core beliefs. In fact, our brain looks pretty much only for evidence of our core beliefs, to act quickly and keep us safe, so we can go back to 'regular programming' (self and other rejection, usually). But all to keep us safe. And safety is one of the greatest most important needs, because everything else depends on it. But it is 'words' that actually 'cause' the 'feelings' (simplified, yet predominantly true, though I do think our body's physical state influences our thoughts).

Hope I'm explaining it right. It makes profound sense to me that emotions are the feelings that come from words (I did not know that). It explains why David Burns' book was so useful for many for depression (it emphasizes changing the the core beliefs, and challenging core beliefs, but through mindfulness), but it didn't work for me because, or rather, I have to use my own version of mindfulness, which is actually engagement but with a wider eye, and supported externally from others' words that bring encouragement and strength. I can't challenge my core beliefs from within me, I'm afraid, but I can try to put my trust in others' words if I believe they're true (and the person is not lying).

Also, I always thought- I can't have 'physiological' depression- if I feel better hearing (others') words? But that explains the atypical part of it, to me.

I also noticed doing so, for example even hearing something positive (in general or about myself), I don't repeat it in my head (unlike negative thoughts which only repeat and morph) but it does stop the negative thoughts, at least for a little while (beautiful silence).

Ugh, hope that makes sense. You are recognizing your go-to's and you're challenging them. That will make them less powerful I think.

I reckon you’re making plenty awesome strides here. We can’t do anything about issues that we have no insight into, and that’s oftentimes really painful. But you haven’t done anything wrong, yeah? You’re reflecting over things in a totally appropriate place and in a totally appropriate way.

^^ Yes. Good for you @brat17 and I hope you and your pup feel better soon. :hug:

 

[mamachick]

Junebug thank you so much for these words, it is encouraging. Sure know the negative thoughts repeat but not the positive. You are right about those core beliefs but I guess I never think of them at the time.

 

[Tinyflame]

You're very welcome @brat17 , and it's simply all true, you are doing a wonderful job.

No, I don't think almost anyone thinks of it, because it's a reaction and we all need to get our brain online.

The thing is, everyone is taught we are rational beings who have emotions, but we are emotional beings who have to work to think rationally. And then add in trauma and every light at the end of the tunnel feels like another approaching train. (JMHE).

 

[mamachick]

I see there seems to be a lot of confusion about passive aggression and while its true that we have all used slight forms of it probably, I see it as a communication style at times BUT more like Zoogal stated and it is very toxic. It will leave the other person frustrated most of the time.They do act helpful and nice while intentionally sabotaging someone else. I do question the word "deliberate" in their behavior because they will deny. Apologies are superficial and often in an angry tone. "Im sorry I can't please you". They can build the deck of their dreams but if you ask them to hang a mirror they will mess up you wall so it needs holes filled and repainted. I personally think its developed early on and it is a barrier to intimacy.

More recently, he did yard work and was all sweaty and grassy. Comes in sweaty and dirty and I say dinner is ready in 40 minutes. He gets a water and I say are you going to shower? (I need to ask that question is a problem) He says, Im gonna lay on the couch and cool off and then get a shower. Great. He is 63, not 23. I say...When you were a kid and you were out playing ball and rolling in the dirt, did your mom let you lay on her sofa before a shower and he says NO. Then he went and showered. I don't like treating a husband like a child but if I don't, he ruins everything. I have learned that I have to do this because otherwise I cant live with him. Maybe I am just a Bitch and if I am a Bitch, I don't want to change this part of myself. I have worked to make a nice house for my family for many years and our kids come back and stay for a weekend out of each month. Show some respect for what I do please. I don't like a filthy house.

 

[Tinyflame]

As a person without a spouse (which maybe makes me the last person to be qualified to say this- but does make me the one doing in and outdoor work/ repairs), if you're dog tired physically and you stop, it's even harder to get up. AND you are right @brat17 , to respect your work/ effort, and the home is for all of you. So... maybe grab a towel/ blanket, say something like, "I know you must be exhausted (because you know that), and thank you so much for cutting the grass, and it looks beautiful! (if it does), and let me cover this first, because I feel tired like you do now when I'm finished cleaning, and that will help it last longer" (or 'I'd really appreciate if you'd use it, and maybe we can leave it (X- a place), for next time", and then a kiss (important!!). And important to let him try- if he does it next time himself, or 25% of the time, it's still improvement. If anything, I'd just leave the cover there (for a visual reminder, and it takes no effort) with a nice big cold glass of water while he's cutting and maybe a treat, and go about whatever I was doing.

We don't often treat the people we love with the consideration they deserve. You are wounded, he is wounded too, we all are. Just to varying degrees, and varying degrees of expressing it. I never take for granted I or anyone else (especially them, though I found out ironically I have something that could knock me off quickly- and there I am with SI, anyway :rolleyes::( ) is guaranteed to be alive later today/ tomorrow. But there is 'now', best we are able.

If you have people you love who love you, love them a lot @brat17 ! :) This trauma 'stuff' (not the word I'd like to use ? ) has stolen enough of our life, quality of life, thoughts and time.

:hug:

 

[mamachick]

@Junebug, you know I always love your posts and know that you have so much compassion for everyone. You are a saint. You have a huge heart, so I hope what I am about to say is not offensive to you. I sure don't mean it that way and am just being honest.

In this instance, this is never going to happen. Maybe its because I am so tired or maybe Im too much of a feminist, or maybe just a Bitch. lol It only takes about 30 minutes to cut the grass and when he comes in and Ive got dinner going for him (which I don't want and don't prefer) and have a basket of laundry that I am folding or am finishing vacuuming, I just cant beat around the bush and coddle him. I do say something nice often but it may be during dinner. I use to just cringe and let him do as he pleased.....we separated for over a decade and he continued to want to come back. The deal was that he had to pitch in around here and that I wasn't carrying the load alone (especially since I would rather be in a small place than this big house). He can go lay on his bed if he wants...he washes his own bedding when he feels he needs it.There are 7 bedrooms in this house and 5 bathrooms.

I really believe that a marriage or live in relationship has to be managed like a business. Things may not be equal but each has qualities they are better at and they need to take them on a just do them as if they were partners in a profitable business. Someone may manage money better but they still have to consult each other on major purchases and such. Each may have to go out of town or get sick and the other has to cover for them for a time, but there has to be some agreement and ours has already been made.

Maybe I am delusional but if a man over 60 doesn't know better than to sit his sweaty butt down on a nice clean couch then Im going to tell him. I also have a traumatic brain injury and this has forced to be more direct and avoid manipulation to get what I want. Telling how good he did, giving him water, and putting a blanket down feels like "manipulating" him.