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Deleted member 14359
Can I come work for you too please?
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Question From An Employer
- Post starter KVal
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- #26
Thanks for all the responses. Obviously, the reaction to me here was mixed. I wish the thread didn't end up being so much about me. I appreciate all the comments, even the negative ones. I understand that many people here have had a difficult time with things and the comments were motived out of concern for someone with a shared difficulty. I've thought about them a bit and I'm confortable with my motivations. There's not much else I can say beyond that.
There seemed to be a lot of questions about the level of communication I've had with the young woman in question during her absence. We've talked a number of times and communicated via email regularly. I'm confident that she doesn't view them as harrassment. She has a lot of the common symptoms - lack of focus, lack of interest, some social isolation, anxiety etc. She has some concerns about her ability to perform at her job and questions about her long term goals.
I do not want to push her to do anything she isn't ready for. However, we are coming to a crossroads. Her benefits will shortly run out. She is receiving disability pay but that won't continue forever either. At some point in the relatively near future, I will lose some of the control I currently have related to her status and role. I'm concerned about a bad outcome for her. That is why I'm looking for suggestions now. Maybe if I ask things a different way -
Does anyone have any examples of a success story with returning to work after an extended outage? If so, were there specific accomodations that helped with the return?
There seemed to be a lot of questions about the level of communication I've had with the young woman in question during her absence. We've talked a number of times and communicated via email regularly. I'm confident that she doesn't view them as harrassment. She has a lot of the common symptoms - lack of focus, lack of interest, some social isolation, anxiety etc. She has some concerns about her ability to perform at her job and questions about her long term goals.
I do not want to push her to do anything she isn't ready for. However, we are coming to a crossroads. Her benefits will shortly run out. She is receiving disability pay but that won't continue forever either. At some point in the relatively near future, I will lose some of the control I currently have related to her status and role. I'm concerned about a bad outcome for her. That is why I'm looking for suggestions now. Maybe if I ask things a different way -
Does anyone have any examples of a success story with returning to work after an extended outage? If so, were there specific accomodations that helped with the return?
The Albatross
VIP Member
Me three.
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- #28
anthony
Founder
Regardless of PTSD, anyone who has been off work for 7 months will have a fear of the unknown, unfamiliar environment, so forth. It is not different to the fear / anxiety any person has starting a new job, being the new person, even if returning to work. Where PTSD comes in, is that it manifests this anxiety, this fear, to unparalleled heights.
Maybe the starting route is to have them come in for social visits with staff and such to familiarise themselves with the environment and employees again. Getting them comfortable without the work application makes it easier to return.
Maybe the starting route is to have them come in for social visits with staff and such to familiarise themselves with the environment and employees again. Getting them comfortable without the work application makes it easier to return.
KVal,
Many with PTSD do work or do work part time and many of those have had a period of time when they have been unable to work.
I personally have been unable to work, have gone back to work, had to leave and am now back but in a way that does not put unnecessarily strain on me. It also depends on how severe her PTSD is and other coping skills. I think some of us who are dissociative find it "easier" in some respects.
Many work because they have to and can just about do it. Some manage what they do without incredible strain. Some can't work as their symptoms are too severe.
I had no accommodations as I never told anyone. I still tell no one. That does cause problems, as one would expect.
What has made a difference for me is that I thought it through very carefully this last time. I looked at where my personal vulnerabilities were and what is most likely to raise my stress levels unduly high.
It has helped me to do less of the parts of my work that created stress. Start later in the day and not work the hours I used to. Have a proper break in the day if I am working. Do as much as possible from home. Avoid very difficult or bullying personality types).
I think what goes a long way is a gentle easing in if possible and someone there. It doesn't have to be about babysitting her. Short term plans are possibly useful. I Like Anthony's idea of her popping in a few times first.
If it was from interpersonal violence of any type then getting used to interacting with people is an adjustment.
Many with PTSD do work or do work part time and many of those have had a period of time when they have been unable to work.
I personally have been unable to work, have gone back to work, had to leave and am now back but in a way that does not put unnecessarily strain on me. It also depends on how severe her PTSD is and other coping skills. I think some of us who are dissociative find it "easier" in some respects.
Many work because they have to and can just about do it. Some manage what they do without incredible strain. Some can't work as their symptoms are too severe.
I had no accommodations as I never told anyone. I still tell no one. That does cause problems, as one would expect.
What has made a difference for me is that I thought it through very carefully this last time. I looked at where my personal vulnerabilities were and what is most likely to raise my stress levels unduly high.
It has helped me to do less of the parts of my work that created stress. Start later in the day and not work the hours I used to. Have a proper break in the day if I am working. Do as much as possible from home. Avoid very difficult or bullying personality types).
I think what goes a long way is a gentle easing in if possible and someone there. It doesn't have to be about babysitting her. Short term plans are possibly useful. I Like Anthony's idea of her popping in a few times first.
If it was from interpersonal violence of any type then getting used to interacting with people is an adjustment.
I got too cocky with the new draft function on here and post my post! :rolleyes: Will come back when I find the mental energy to do so.
Here is something in the meantime. https://www.myptsd.com/threads/have-you-worked-throughout-your-ptsd.29659/ I think we all tend to feel great shame about not being more productive or not being able to work if these are an issue.
Many of us have times when we have been out of work but go back later. Some because they have no choice and others because it is really important to them. Sometimes it is both. Someone understanding can make all the difference.
Here is something in the meantime. https://www.myptsd.com/threads/have-you-worked-throughout-your-ptsd.29659/ I think we all tend to feel great shame about not being more productive or not being able to work if these are an issue.
Many of us have times when we have been out of work but go back later. Some because they have no choice and others because it is really important to them. Sometimes it is both. Someone understanding can make all the difference.
Hi KVal. I wanted to chime in, albeit belatedly, firstly to commend you, with all sincerity, for the care and concern you are showing to your employee. I have seen and inferred nothing in any of your posts that would make me think that your interest is anything other than genuine, appropriate and supportive, and I cannot overstate what a positive difference that attitudes such as yours make in the work life of a PTSD sufferer, whether they are currently working or attempting to return.
I am currently off work and have been so for 12 months. I battled extremely symptomatic PTSD for 2 years before that time and had several short periods of leave before finally succumbing to a more long-term absence. I can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that the extremely healthy and supportive work environment and the flexible, empathic and solution-oriented attitude of my colleagues and managers was one of the primary reasons I was able to keep working for as long as I did. For me, staying at work was as much about personal accountability, human contact, structure/routine, a safe place to be and personal worth and productivity as it was about my job, and while I am in no way suggesting that an employee should remain at work if they're not able to perform to a basic standard as per their job description, I am also saying that the benefits to the employee can be far greater than a stable income, and work kept me healthier for longer than I would have been without it.
A few things that helped enormously in my case can be summed up under the banner of communication. I spoke often and openly to my manager who assured me that he had an open dor policy when it came to how I was coping, and within reason, he was always available to me if I needed to talk, or needed time out for a few minutes from the ratrace of the office. He trusted me to respect this accommodation, and I did, and all he asked of me in return (which was actually very difficult) was that I be as honest with him as possible about how I was doing, if and when I was/wasn't coping, and what I felt I needed. Where he could, he accommodated. Where he couldn't, we talked about it openly, and with alternatives. I asked him to promise me that he would be frank with me about my work performance, and he asked me to promise that I would be frank with him about my coping.
I was offered a change in seating location and a quieter office to help me with triggers and overstimulation. I worked reduced hours and shorter days when I needed to, starting work early (prior to the heavy morning public transport commute) and leaving early to also miss the afternoon rush. Some days I worked from home, work taskings permitting, and this helped me to work productively on some days when I wouldn't have been able to deal with travelling but could concentrate and focus in a quieter familiar environment.
My supervisory relationship was subtley altered to remove me from a notoriously bullying personality who was very triggering for me.
There was regular 3-way communication between myself, my boss and my psychologist (who, wonderfully, is also our workplace psychologist) and we worked together to identify work tasks that would be problematic for me and those which would be more doable.
I by no means told all of my colleagues about my PTSD, but a few close and caring fellow employees kept an eye on me too (which I didn't fully appreciate until later) and the good ones were remarkably good at appearing to see how I was travelling if the office had been particularly busy, if a particularly challenging work tasking had been ongoing, or if there was any other disruption to normality that tended to be stressful or difficult for me. At times I was resentful of being "watched" and not always as grateful as I wish I'd been, because it did make a difference to have a few strategically-placed friends in my corner looking out for me.
These are just a couple of thoughts, will return later with more, but I just want to say again how grateful I am that there are employers/bosses like you and my boss who are willing to learn and to implement and to think outside the box to both retain a valuable employee and contribute positively to the life and recovery of that employee. Add my name to the list of those who would happily come work for you!!
Maddog
I am currently off work and have been so for 12 months. I battled extremely symptomatic PTSD for 2 years before that time and had several short periods of leave before finally succumbing to a more long-term absence. I can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that the extremely healthy and supportive work environment and the flexible, empathic and solution-oriented attitude of my colleagues and managers was one of the primary reasons I was able to keep working for as long as I did. For me, staying at work was as much about personal accountability, human contact, structure/routine, a safe place to be and personal worth and productivity as it was about my job, and while I am in no way suggesting that an employee should remain at work if they're not able to perform to a basic standard as per their job description, I am also saying that the benefits to the employee can be far greater than a stable income, and work kept me healthier for longer than I would have been without it.
A few things that helped enormously in my case can be summed up under the banner of communication. I spoke often and openly to my manager who assured me that he had an open dor policy when it came to how I was coping, and within reason, he was always available to me if I needed to talk, or needed time out for a few minutes from the ratrace of the office. He trusted me to respect this accommodation, and I did, and all he asked of me in return (which was actually very difficult) was that I be as honest with him as possible about how I was doing, if and when I was/wasn't coping, and what I felt I needed. Where he could, he accommodated. Where he couldn't, we talked about it openly, and with alternatives. I asked him to promise me that he would be frank with me about my work performance, and he asked me to promise that I would be frank with him about my coping.
I was offered a change in seating location and a quieter office to help me with triggers and overstimulation. I worked reduced hours and shorter days when I needed to, starting work early (prior to the heavy morning public transport commute) and leaving early to also miss the afternoon rush. Some days I worked from home, work taskings permitting, and this helped me to work productively on some days when I wouldn't have been able to deal with travelling but could concentrate and focus in a quieter familiar environment.
My supervisory relationship was subtley altered to remove me from a notoriously bullying personality who was very triggering for me.
There was regular 3-way communication between myself, my boss and my psychologist (who, wonderfully, is also our workplace psychologist) and we worked together to identify work tasks that would be problematic for me and those which would be more doable.
I by no means told all of my colleagues about my PTSD, but a few close and caring fellow employees kept an eye on me too (which I didn't fully appreciate until later) and the good ones were remarkably good at appearing to see how I was travelling if the office had been particularly busy, if a particularly challenging work tasking had been ongoing, or if there was any other disruption to normality that tended to be stressful or difficult for me. At times I was resentful of being "watched" and not always as grateful as I wish I'd been, because it did make a difference to have a few strategically-placed friends in my corner looking out for me.
These are just a couple of thoughts, will return later with more, but I just want to say again how grateful I am that there are employers/bosses like you and my boss who are willing to learn and to implement and to think outside the box to both retain a valuable employee and contribute positively to the life and recovery of that employee. Add my name to the list of those who would happily come work for you!!
Maddog
Hi KVal,
First, I want to say thank you for caring. Not sure why this thread meandered off topic so much, but many of us do tend to have some trust issues. :)
One of the tough things for a supporter to deal with regarding PTSD is how differently symptoms manifest themselves for each individual. That makes it difficult for anyone to give you sound advice on how to help your friend. It would be very easy for me to one of us to suggest an approach that could make things worse.
To complicate things further, if she is in crisis mode, she may not be able to communicate what she wants or how you can help.
One thing I feel pretty safe saying is to find out if she has good professional support. If not, that could be something that is very practical and very important that you could help with. You're looking for someone specializing in trauma. . .the more experience, the better. Finding the professionals and qualifying them is something we can have a really difficult time trying to do for ourselves.
What is the rest of her support structure like? Are her family/friends providing positive support or are they making things worse? Anything that you could do to improve the behaviors of others when interacting with your friend?
I suggest also taking a look at the 'What never to say to a PTSD sufferer' thread. My gut is telling me that you would be able to get a more intimate understanding of what life is like from the sufferer's perspective and, hopefully, that may spark some ideas on how to approach and help.
Finally, as a guy who was in a comparable situation to your colleague. . .in management in a fast paced, high stress, high ego environment when I crashed, let me suggest that beyond the PTSD symptoms themselves, there may be a huge amount of shame, sense of failure, sense of weakness there, too. It frickin' sucks.
OK. . .one more thing. . .it is possible that your colleague may be able to come back. . .but it is also possible that coming back is no longer a healthy choice for her. . .there is no way to really know that yet. Whatever happens, it's not a failure. Right now, she is probably working harder than anyone at the office ever has, is probably under more pressure. . .and no matter what that looks like from the outside right now. . .it probably wouldn't hurt to have someone share that with her.
Wish you both the best possible outcomes.
First, I want to say thank you for caring. Not sure why this thread meandered off topic so much, but many of us do tend to have some trust issues. :)
One of the tough things for a supporter to deal with regarding PTSD is how differently symptoms manifest themselves for each individual. That makes it difficult for anyone to give you sound advice on how to help your friend. It would be very easy for me to one of us to suggest an approach that could make things worse.
To complicate things further, if she is in crisis mode, she may not be able to communicate what she wants or how you can help.
One thing I feel pretty safe saying is to find out if she has good professional support. If not, that could be something that is very practical and very important that you could help with. You're looking for someone specializing in trauma. . .the more experience, the better. Finding the professionals and qualifying them is something we can have a really difficult time trying to do for ourselves.
What is the rest of her support structure like? Are her family/friends providing positive support or are they making things worse? Anything that you could do to improve the behaviors of others when interacting with your friend?
I suggest also taking a look at the 'What never to say to a PTSD sufferer' thread. My gut is telling me that you would be able to get a more intimate understanding of what life is like from the sufferer's perspective and, hopefully, that may spark some ideas on how to approach and help.
Finally, as a guy who was in a comparable situation to your colleague. . .in management in a fast paced, high stress, high ego environment when I crashed, let me suggest that beyond the PTSD symptoms themselves, there may be a huge amount of shame, sense of failure, sense of weakness there, too. It frickin' sucks.
OK. . .one more thing. . .it is possible that your colleague may be able to come back. . .but it is also possible that coming back is no longer a healthy choice for her. . .there is no way to really know that yet. Whatever happens, it's not a failure. Right now, she is probably working harder than anyone at the office ever has, is probably under more pressure. . .and no matter what that looks like from the outside right now. . .it probably wouldn't hurt to have someone share that with her.
Wish you both the best possible outcomes.
Love your post Zef. Not only are you spot on about all of it, but what you wrote, particularly your final point about the sufferer currently working harder than anyone at the office will ever know, was really validating to me. As someone who has recently become aware of some general sentiment among my colleagues that I'm off on some sort of endless bludgey holiday, it's nice to know that there are those out there who know the truth.
The shame and fear and failure and uncertainty of being on long-term medical leave with PTSD are, in many cases, beyond what is easy to put into words. If there is only one message that I believe is critical to be conveyed in every interaction with this employee, it's that you know that she is working hard, dealing with a lot, and that this situation is far from what she would want, but far from her fault. Conveying that mix of empathy, encouragement and acceptance, will do more for her than anything practical you can do for her, not to minimise the contribution of practical assistance of course.
Maddog
The shame and fear and failure and uncertainty of being on long-term medical leave with PTSD are, in many cases, beyond what is easy to put into words. If there is only one message that I believe is critical to be conveyed in every interaction with this employee, it's that you know that she is working hard, dealing with a lot, and that this situation is far from what she would want, but far from her fault. Conveying that mix of empathy, encouragement and acceptance, will do more for her than anything practical you can do for her, not to minimise the contribution of practical assistance of course.
Maddog
Gosh it gives me hope to hear that there are employers out there who could be understanding! I am so fearful of not being perfect that I don't even tell anyone I have it as I am sure people woudln't hire me if they did know! Its wonderful what you are trying to do, and I applaud you, and I hope your friend/worker/employee recovers and that you both are well!
Lucycat
Sponsor
I was initially off work for 4 months, and found it really hard to go back. I was desperate to go back to work but also very frightened. I did as others have suggested - just visiting the office and sitting in my seat before returning to work. Also I forced myself to meet with a few select colleagues for coffee while I was off, just to maintain contact. When I went back I had a 'phased return' over 6 weeks with increasing hours and days until by the end I was up to full time. That was hard to negotiate as it became a battle ground between our Occupational Health department and my boss who had differing opinions on how the phased return should work. I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place.
18 months later I had another period off work, this time just 4 weeks. However I found returning this time harder than the first as I had spent a night in hospital and was horrendously ashamed of that. Also boss demanded a meeting within my first week back to discuss my role - very undermining and showed her lack of understanding about what I actually do. Then she demanded an urgent piece of work to be done within 24 hours. This is an 'annual' piece of work that she has not asked for in the 18 months since( but I have done it ready in case she throws it as an urgent surprise again!) Once I got past that it was fine and I am mostly able to do my job well. When my concentration is down I take it slowly and look after myself, without sharing anything with my uncaring and judgmental colleagues and boss. ( Forgot to mention my boss is a Registered Psychiatric Nurse!!!)
Kval I wish you were my boss. I really appreciate that you care for your employee. I hope that she knows that? Unfortunately she might need to be told very many times before she believes it. I suspect her confidence is in her boots.
I wonder if your employee is in therapy and if so what advice is being given by her therapist? If they are suggesting that she is not fit for work then your help and support will go nowhere. However if a therapist is trying to support her return then with the right gentle encouragement she might just get there.
Good luck and best wishes to you both
Lucy x
18 months later I had another period off work, this time just 4 weeks. However I found returning this time harder than the first as I had spent a night in hospital and was horrendously ashamed of that. Also boss demanded a meeting within my first week back to discuss my role - very undermining and showed her lack of understanding about what I actually do. Then she demanded an urgent piece of work to be done within 24 hours. This is an 'annual' piece of work that she has not asked for in the 18 months since( but I have done it ready in case she throws it as an urgent surprise again!) Once I got past that it was fine and I am mostly able to do my job well. When my concentration is down I take it slowly and look after myself, without sharing anything with my uncaring and judgmental colleagues and boss. ( Forgot to mention my boss is a Registered Psychiatric Nurse!!!)
Kval I wish you were my boss. I really appreciate that you care for your employee. I hope that she knows that? Unfortunately she might need to be told very many times before she believes it. I suspect her confidence is in her boots.
I wonder if your employee is in therapy and if so what advice is being given by her therapist? If they are suggesting that she is not fit for work then your help and support will go nowhere. However if a therapist is trying to support her return then with the right gentle encouragement she might just get there.
Good luck and best wishes to you both
Lucy x
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- #36
She and her therapist don't think she is ready to start working yet. The truth is, I'm starting to lose hope. It's a very sad situation all around. I'm going to try to maintain contact as best I can, make sure she knows how much we all want her to come back and make sure she understands that I won't put her in a position to fail.
There's a lot to balance here...her needs (long and short run), those of the broader group, internal politics/HR etc. I also want to make sure she knows we haven't forgotten about her without putting pressure on her to do anything she's not ready for.
There's a lot to balance here...her needs (long and short run), those of the broader group, internal politics/HR etc. I also want to make sure she knows we haven't forgotten about her without putting pressure on her to do anything she's not ready for.
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