Relationship Question To All The Ladies With A Partner Struggling With Cptsd

[tinylove]

Hi AlienMongus, my partner has Combat PTSD and your post has provided me with a great deal of insigh...

I cried... I felt like I wrote some parts of your post... Thank you so much! I also learned new things.

 

[alienamongus]

I appreciate reaching out and attempting to educate, but I find some of the blanket statements and "always...

Hi there,
I am sorry to hear you are struggling with the same thing and my heart truly goes out to you. I will try to clarify what I meant...

I'm often none of this. Though I'd say I'm friendly, and if I happen to be close to anyone at all, empathetic.

I mentioned "often" to indicate most of us. If I wanted to say all of us were supportive, caring and reliable I would have said "always". I think it is unfair to paint us as unsupportive, uncaring or unreliable when only a few of us are the exception.

Just not true. You would never hurt your children, I would never hurt my children, but people with PTSD can also be abusers (happened in my family and happens all over). But it's fair to say that most of us don't become abusers, because I think that is statistically correct. But, some of us do.

PTSD often comes with OTHER mental complications which can be associated with violence. PTSD on its own doesn't cause you to abuse your loved ones. And using PTSD as an escape goat to being abusive or hurting others is simply unacceptable.

This is a big statement. I don't know if this could constitute CPTSD either, but it likely connects to undiagnosed attachment problems (emotional and physical abandonment absolutely can have this effect on a baby)...attachment issues can look like CPTSD or personality disorder features. Anyway, I especially don't understand the "for a guy" part. Do boy babies need less love and nurturance because they are boys? No. Boy babies depend on their mother and need love the same way girl babies do. They aren't somehow tougher and need less love and care when they are tiny and helpless.

I meant males are LESS LIKELY to develop complex PTSD in adulthood due to emotional or physical abandonment in childhood. You may not like or agree with this statement but it is true. For example, in the area I live in, I have been turned down by many therapists and psychologists simply because I am a male. They bluntly say they don't deal with males struggling with complex PTSD. Until today I am STILL looking for a therapist who specializes in complex PTSD in males. Why do you think that is? because it is just not that common...

 

[Left Behind Spouse]

@allenamongas - actually, the program my Ex is in is called 1in6 because 1 in 6 men experience sexual trauma before the age of 12. I think it is less common for men to come forward, but not less common for them to experience enough trauma in early childhood and be experiencing the range of symtoms falling under the umbrella of Complex PTSD. I also know that my ex husband is 34, and all of the men in his group are in their 50s and 60s, and it took them that long to start therapy and facing their pasts.

I went through a year of 4 different therapist before actually finding out someone from his program would see me. Before that, the therapists I saw looked at me like I had 4 heads.... quickly told me he was NPD, or just plain insecure attachment, and told me to move on.

My current therapist mostly explains to me that he will likely have a tendency to swing back and forth from constricted emotions to outward emotions.

She did tell me that she works in a support centre for men with addiction/mental health issues, and she said within the same family, siblings can experience the same level of abuse and react completely differently, so one could have complex PTSD, and the other may not.

Anyway, one of it explains why a man who worshipped me for 10 years, just up and left one day and completely changed. I digress.

 

[Chava]

I meant males are LESS LIKELY to develop complex PTSD in adulthood due to emotional or physical abandonment in childhood. You may not like or agree with this statement but it is true.

Based on what? (aside from your own example, which only suggests to me that there are too many incompetent therapists in your area, which I personally relate to...and why I have to travel for therapy for complex trauma). I think there is evidence that BPD is diagnosed more often in women but we don't even have stats on CPTSD because it isn't an official diagnosis. How would being male make you more protected from the effects of childhood abandonment and abuse? I understand potential for fewer seeking diagnosis, perhaps, but you state that men are simply less likely to even develop CPTSD from childhood abandonment (other trauma?).

I don't want to argue the point, it's just that you said it is "true" and I'm wondering if you have a source. If not, it is just your assumption or belief, right?

 

[alienamongus]

Based on what? (aside from your own example, which only suggests to me that there are too many incompetent...

Please I am not trying to offend anyone here and please don't try to hijack the post to be about male vs female thing. I am just trying to state facts based on published accepted research. It may not be what you want to hear but it is what it is. It doesn't change its truth. Please refer to the following FEW examples:

- Dorte Christiansen and and Ask Elklit, "Sex differences in PTSD", National Center for Psychotraumatology, (2012) pg 114-143
"There is general consensus that females are approximately twice as likely as males to be diagnosed with PTSD following a wide range of trauma types, although sex differences in the prevalence of PTSD following some trauma types (e.g. rape, CSA, combat) have not been fully established. Sex differences in the types of trauma that males and females are exposed to and in the risk factors associated with PTSD appear to account for at least some of the increased PTSD prevalence in females compared to males"

- D. Tolin and E. Foa " sex differences in trauma and posttraumatic stress disorder: a quntitative review of 25 years of research", Psycological Bulliten, Vol. 132, No. 6, (2006), pg 959-992
"when male and female victims of non-sexual assault were compared with nonassaulted samples, the effect was much greater for female participants than for male participants. Thus, comparing the prevalence of PTSD only among PTE survivors, without regard for base rates of psychiatric symptoms, may lead to misleading conclusions"

- P. Schnurr, "Trauma, PTSD, and Physical Health", PTSD Reseach Quarterly, Vol. 7, No. 3 (1996) pg. 1-8
"Given the prevalence of trauma in the general population—roughly 5% in men and 10% in women the existing data can be used to argue that exposure to trauma is a significant public health problem that has real social and economic costs"

- Sharon Tang, "Social context in traumatic stress: gender, ethnicity, and betrayal", PhD Thesis, Department of Psycology, University of Oregon (2009)
"the findings confirmed prior research that traumas high in betrayal (e.g. abuse by a close other) are more strongly associated with symptoms of posttraumatic stress that traumas lower in betrayal (e.g. by natural disaster). Women also reported higher rates of depression, anxiety, and reexperiencing symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) but not avoidance and hyperarousal symptoms".

- O. Frans, "Posttraumatic stress disorder in the General Population", ACTA UNIVERSITATIS UPSALIENSIS (2003) pg 17-19
"Table 4: The prevalence of trauma and posttraumatic stress disorder in community samples:
USA (2493 persons) 0.5% Male, 1.3 % female.
USA (2985 persons aged 18-95) 0.9% Male, 1.7% Female,
USA (5877 persons aged 15-54) 5.0% Male, 10.4% Female,
Germany (3021 persons aged 14-24) 1.0% Male, 2.2% Female,
Sweden (1824 persons aged 18-70) 3.6% Male, 7.4% Female"

Also the DSM is not a bible written in stone. It has its flaws regarding PTSD. Please refer to the following:
Complex PTSD: the effects of chronic trauma and victimization
"Complex PTSD: In several ways, it is not entirely helpful to accept the criteria for PTSD as defined in the DSM-IV as fully describing the aftereffects of trauma. First, PTSD rarely exists in isolation. More often, particularly in cases that become chronic (i.e., symptoms persist for more than three months), extensive comorbid conditions complicate treatment and recovery. Second, the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria are very limited and do not include some important changes that occur universally in PTSD, such as fundamental shifts in the way that trauma survivors see themselves and the world. In order for the concept of PTSD to be most useful, one must consider how it customarily presents in real-world situations and how to optimally understand and treat the multiple difficulties that PTSD sufferers experience."

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

- When did you fall in love with your partner? before or after he told you about his CPTSD?
- How long into the relationship until he told you he has CPTSD?
- After he told you, did your love or affections for him decrease?
- Considering how distant he can become. Do you question how reliable he is as a partner/father?

Hi there .. will be marrying the Love of My Life who also happens to be [UNDIAGNOSED] C-PTSD and dissociative (not sure to the extent, not pursuing outside "therapy" at this time).

He and I met about 9 years ago, became best friends through a series of "providential" happenings, both of us with almost opposite but equally "messed up" backgrounds and the various baggage that entails. We became "more than friends" about 2 years ago, and MUTUALLY "in love" for about the past year.

I already knew much of his past, developmental abuse, abandonment, et al, as his friend. He wasn't ever "diagnosed" so there wasn't a big reveal of his "condition" but he was already remarkably self-aware concerning some of his own triggers and trust issues, etc. He's been in and out of counseling, and largely left to his own solitude to try to figure himself out over the years. He also didn't really know about his own "dissociating" until we became "more than friends" about two years ago. He believed himself on the verge of crazy, irreparably broken, and the "big reveal" was when he started intentionally switching to his "other selfs" .. his motivation was to show me who he REALLY was inside, because he was convinced once I knew, I wouldn't WANT him. That he'd "warp" me, break me, or somehow otherwise do me harm, and he valued the friendship too much... HE couldn't say it then, but he loved ME too much to let himself hurt me.

I was bewildered and a little shocked by the switching at first - even thought perhaps he was perhaps "faking" (to tease me) - so I started doing some serious research and digging, myself, to figure out what was going on - the best he could tell me was things like at one time in his earlier in his 20's believing he was carrying around the spirit of his still-born twin in his body, or always referring to himself as a "Gemini" (fearful he was bi-polar, as he grew up with serious bi-polar family members/abusers) and even saying "there's more than one of me up here" as he'd tap his temple.

He knew he would "click out" and "come back" or "wake up" to himself - but this was primarily when threatened, and "Grumpy" would take over to defend [him/them] from the attack. This was true from the time my man was a boy, dealing with bullies, dealing with abusers, attackers, etc.

I already described him as a multi-prismed, variegated colors personality in our friendship - the "revelation" of the dissociating only had the effect of helping me understand HOW his mind worked internally for him, and frankly, understanding HIS "switching" helped me understand MYSELF better. I borrow from a lot of his self-describing language to understand my own inner workings (I am not dissociative, but I will often express my internal conflict now by saying things like "Responsible me wants thus and such, but Emotional me wants THIS!" and it's like I am speaking his language, and he understands better how *I* am thinking about a thing).

But the "big reveal" only had the effect of drawing me CLOSER to him. He was always expecting the other shoe to drop, but I already knew I was in this for the long haul BEFORE "romance" ever entered the picture. I already loved him as a "brother" and had "adopted" him as such, so there was a very natural progression for me to love him as a Lover/Husband. It just took him longer to realize he was on the same path. ;) Initially, he was very angry about this development between us - he experienced all the RISK of a "new love" AND the LOSS of the trust we had as "brother/sister" - which was particularly potent because he had already lost his real family through trauma and estrangement, so he accused me of having "killed" his sister, at first. It was a bumpy ride, but every time we dove deeper, the more "in love" we became....Even WITH all that, the RISK of a Lover LEAVING still hovered as a threat over our relationship for that first year in transition. We couldn't really be in a "relationship" romantically, because not "all" of him trusted me not to leave. And I knew I couldn't expect the "normal" things a woman might expect from her man when they're "in love" because it would put too much burden on him to be "the heavy" emotionally. I had to "prove" I could stand on my own two feet - be my own "center" - so I wasn't wrapping up too much of my soul and heart in HIS love for me .. There is NO surer way to trigger "Grumpy" than if he senses I don't have good "control" over my own emotional reality.

To the question of whether he'd be a good husband or father - that is complicated. I suppose if we had "fallen in love" when we were younger? When both of us didn't yet have our own "sh*t" figured out? I might not have had enough discernment to even ask the question, but he also would NOT likely have been a good husband/father given the nature of his struggles and the lack of help to get through them in those years of his life. But who knows? By God's grace, we met when we did, we have both journeyed through life "the hard way" in some significant areas, AND we are both JUST young enough to desire having children of our own, and being biologically still capable of enjoying that possibility. ;) But we have BOTH had our doubts about what kind of Dad he'd be. I TRUST his heart without question. But we do "fear" the unknown as far as how triggering kids can be, etc. He would NEVER intentionally harm .. but he might not always know if his reactions are disproportionate.

Still, having said that, I WANT us to enjoy becoming parents, if we are able. And I TRUST enough of what we have already done our due diligence on to establish a kind of "family charter" .. he always functioned well in the workplace when there were CLEARLY DEFINED "policies and procedures" .. so we reason that we will write our own for the family - how to mete out appropriate "natural consequences" in discipline, governed always by our Big Picture goals for the child's best interest, etc. And I have been DELIGHTED to find my man's BRILLIANCE expressing itself - insightful and loving and, I could just go on .. He has files for the kids already for each stage of development, and we aren't even married yet! (haha!) :inlove:

It's a BIG relief to both of us, too, to relinquish our own "expectations" - to navigate life knowing that we CAN'T "plan" for every eventuality, but the PROCESS has enabled us to establish some critical governing rules of behavior .. such as the rule that we "speak in the now" to avoid letting what-if's fester, and not allowing either of us the "luxury" of figuring everything out "by ourselves" .. we AREN'T "alone" anymore .. we're IN this TOGETHER .. and we don't quit each other. EVER. We are realistic enough to know "divorce" is a real possible reality - even if we take EVERY precaution against it .. For us, this meant writing up our own "prenuptial agreement" laying out all the terms of our "expectations" in the relationship and how best to CARE FOR EACH OTHER if we still happen to fail to succeed at the marriage game. For ME, I saw this as a simple tool to "force" us to keep our promises. These are simply the terms of our COVENANT with one another. For HIM, he saw this as ESSENTIAL for TRUST, because he's been abused so much, and has lost so much in past relationships, that if a girl wasn't willing to sign a prenup, it was a signal to him she INTENDED to fail to keep her promises. This arrangement might not work for all, but it has proven to be a BLESSING for us. ...

- Don't try to make him talk about the trauma/traumas thinking that by talking about it to someone it will be better. This is VERY wrong with someone who has CPTSD. Just the thought of the trauma is EXTREMELY triggering. You're basically asking him to relive the trauma...please don't do this.

- At the times where he's distant. Always remember it's NOT because he doesn't love you any less or that he's pushing you away. This is the way a CPTSD sufferer reboots his brain. There is so much war and conflict in the brain of a CPTSD-sufferer. Having to always be on watch to avoid triggers and controlling his emotions when these triggers occur can be EXTREMELY exhausting. Being alone is his way of recharging.... his mind will come back to you generally in a couple of days.

- When a CPTSD sufferer tells you he loves you it is because he TRULY loves you. Sufferers have an extremely hard time controlling their emotions and feelings. They often fall in love very quickly and have the tendency of wearing their hearts on their sleeves.

- When a CPTSD sufferer tells you he no longer loves you or is numb towards you, then this is most likely because you are the cause of some of his triggers. If you keep asking him to talk about his traumas then please do NOT. I can't stress this is enough....

- CPTSD sufferers are almost always not violent towards others. If anything they usually take it out on themselves. In fact, many tend to be hyper-sensitive to the suffering of others. They also may be abit over-protective at times.

- Although CPTSD sufferers generally try to avoid people or social settings and generally have very few friends, they almost always have room in their life for one person....that's you. You may not understand him but know that he actually loves you. Most sufferers have a constant internal struggle between wanting to be alone (with his other self) to sort out his thoughts (or demons I should say) and wanting to be hugged, touched, and loved by someone.

- CPTSD sufferers are often supportive, caring, compassionate and reliable. They ARE capable of love. They will accept you and love you for all your flaws. Also, looking on the bright-side since most CPTSD sufferers inherently have extremely low self image, they are often NOT narcissistic, sadistic, egotistical, obnoxious or self-centered, and if he loves you he will most likely worship you. Also, you'll never have to worry about him cheating on you or being unfaithful. So he's not such a bad catch after all I guess....

Lastly, always remember that we are what the cruelty of man made us to be. We didn't choose to be this way and we are not crazy....I think.

Oh my goodness .. SO much this. I know there has been some back and forth on this conversation about overgeneralization, but this definitely fits our situation. And my man is by ALL counts supportive, caring, compassionate, and reliable. He is fiercely protective of me, has to work hard to keep HIS center because he would bend over backwards for me in almost any situation, and this puts a measure of responsibility on ME to never take advantage of his "giving nature" ..

He says our "magic" is because we are BOTH "faucets" and he's only ever dated women who were "drains" (LOL) ..

To the best of our ability, we love each other unconditionally, and seek to have GRACE for one another in all things. We each sacrifice for the other, we lift each other up, we give room for each other's failings, we are quick to repent and quick to forgive, and we are determined to FIGHT to make our relationship succeed .. because we are WORTH it. :inlove:

THANK you for this thread, WELCOME to the forum, and THANK YOU to ALL replies in this conversation. You help me love my man even more, if that were possible. ;)

~S2B :inlove:

 

[journey31]

He never told me. I am just able to see it, as he's not the first combat vet I've dated. He's told me he was depressed. That's as far as he's gotten. That was fairly early. Maybe a month or two.
It doesn't change anything. I still care about him. I do love him. But haven't told him. Any sign of emotion, he pulls away. He disappeared for days after the first and only time we were intimate. He won't do it again.
I don't know when I fell for him.
He won't let me get close. He told me he won't let me, so he can't get hurt.
But neither of us will walk away. So there's obviously something on both ends.
I'm not going anywhere. I just wish he'd let me in and realize I'm not going to hurt him.

 

[alienamongus]

Hi there .. will be marrying the Love of My Life who also happens to be [UNDIAGNOSED] C-PTSD and di...

Hi there,

Thank you very much for sharing your story with us. Your partner is a very lucky person to have someone as loving and caring as yourself in his life. It is something extremely rare.

I am pleasantly surprised there are people like yourself who can or have the aptitude to love people like us. I am personally still in the stage where it is hard to even conceive this is even possible for me. And unfortunately all my previous relationships re-affirmed this even though, like your partner towards you, I loved all my exes unconditionally with all my heart. Finding someone like yourself doesn't happen all that often...

You said a phrase that got me thinking...."By God's grace, we met when we did..." but that wouldn't happen if God is punishing us and cursed us to live life in constant torment alone. Just like the story of Sisyphus from Greek mythology who was condemned by being compelled to roll an immense rock up a hill only to watch it roll back down; repeating this over and over again for eternity.

Just like Sisyphus we live, and before our scars internal and external heal, we repeat it all over again... how unfair and cruel this world can be.

Yes as per my psychiatrist, PTSD often comes with other co-morbid issues. In my case, as in your partner, it is dissociative identity disorder where two conflicting entities co-exist. I suggest your partner to get himself officially diagnosed and to start taking medication. It obviously doesn't cure it but it helps level up the hyper-emotions.

Best of wishes to you both and wish you a happy joyful life together :)

 

[Chava]

Alright, that all mostly points to diagnosis, which doesn't say much. We could just as likely (more likely) note that women are more socialized to ask for help. You also sort of combined parts of these ideas into one new idea. But anyway, thanks for the citations.

 

[Friday]

It is extremely difficult to hide PTSD because the greatest majority of sufferers have a very hard time controlling all of emotions. So I don't see how he could hide it for 5 years and only 6 months into the marriage it magically shows up...how convenient eh...

The "magically showing up"? That's called increased stressors & his cup filled up. Simple as. Could also be new trauma/retraumatization. Either will do it.

***

 

[Friday]

It is extremely difficult to hide PTSD because the greatest majority of sufferers have a very hard time controlling all of emotions. So I don't see how he could hide it for 5 years and only 6 months into the marriage it magically shows up...how convenient eh...

Pt.2

It is exceptionally easy to not show symptoms under certain circumstances... Including but not limited to

- Asymptomatic for a time. The entire purpose of therapy et al is to get to a point of being asymptomatic or undiagnosable. Many people figure out how to get here -either permanently or temporarily- all on their own. Other people have been through therapy et al, and have reduced symptoms down to nil or near enough.

- Outstanding coping mechanisms. Healthy or unhealthy. This is different from above... Because it covers all the active duty military, EMS, First Responders, aid workers, etc... Whose very nature of their job acts as a big fat coping mechanism, both bleeding stress & keeping them in the zone ...so as long as they don't stay still for too long, and don't snap in public...they can continue on "fine" for years & years, with PTSD symptoms only leaking out here & there / rarely enough to be noticeable except in retrospect. There are a lot of other possibles here as well (athletes, etc.) but it is really, really, really common for certain job & personality types to mask or be accidentally preventing symptoms by certain forms of employment or recreation.

- Shift & Redirect. It's not an anxiety attack. It's a migraine. I must have had a bit too much to drink last night, that's why I'm all shaky and wrung out feeling awful today. It's not isolating, it's a hunting trip/ business trip/ camping trip. It's not this, it's that. Things that are easily explained away, to ourselves, others, or both.

- Hours & Days. If you don't live with someone, or they work or are otherwise away from the house for an extended period of time, it's very possible to white knuckle through symptoms until you have the space to fall apart. People do it for jobs all the time. When less symptomatic? Pfft. Cakewalk. In fact? People often don't notice that they're doing it; because they'd simply managing their stress & symptoms in such a way that if stuff is going to be leaking out? It will be after others have gone to bed, or by taking an hour to recover after ABC, or showing up a bit late to pull it together before XYZ. Part of well managed PTSD includes knowing exactly that: how the timing of their days needs to work out for them to be at their best where they consider it to be important. Until either they relax, or symptoms increase until it doesn't matter how important something is to them.

I very deliberately did not use the word "hide", because quite frankly not only are some people simply doing well, but many others don't even know what they're doing is managing symptoms or that it isn't a migraine, etc. (need to go lay down for a bit, the world is too loud). Others? Yeah. We're faking normal, full speed ahead. But either way? It's hardly a difficult thing to do. Costly? Often. But not difficult.

I've had PTSD since 96/97 or thereabouts, and virtually no one close to me knows. Partly that's because I usually make a point of being elsewhere when I'm doing badly, partly because for apx 10 years of that time (in the middle) I was virtually asymptomatic, & partly personality. It's not "the horrors/the suffering", it's a joke here, a bit of minimizing there, a bit of isolation there, etc.

 

[Chava]

There is too much playing Dr. Phil in this post. Or whatever. I'm an asshole though, and I have the less compassionate version of cptsd. At least for today.