General Rant and complain thread open to all supporters

[Neverthesame]

And now would you peasants please do me the favour and lower your gaze, and address me with you high and wellborn and bring me some Champaign....

Jawohl, mein Dame!

oh and do a curtsy.

I could, but I'd look pretty silly in a skirt. :rofl:

I have to say in my country it is unusual to call a person by their first name unless you know them very well...

Same thing where I grew up. I'm by no stretch of the imagination upper class, but that was taught to me as just polite behaviour. Where I work now, it's the opposite. I don't know most people's last names, most don't know mine. No one calls me by surname.
I've just gotten used to it.

If this is too personal, no need to answer.
Are you Prussian?
I ask because you said your grandfather was an officer. Assuming you are similar age to myself, that would put him around the the old Weimar Republic.
Britain at that time was similarly class based in selecting it's military hierarchy. You'd be an officer because you were an aristocrat, rather than because you were a competent leader.
If that's the case, why anyone still thinks that has anything to do with anything, I don't know.
Assuming I'm not totally wrong that is.

 

[Freida]

We really call people we do not know well always by their last name

oh yea -the name thing!
In America you usually introduce yourself with just your first name.
Hi, I'm Freida

but when I lived in Asia, the used their last name and intro
and their names were backwards --- last name first
so my friend was Li Lyn -- her last name was Li

You couldn't use their first name without permission - which was a big compliment. But you had to remember that YOU had permission, not others.
so if I introduced my friend it had to be...
Never_falter2, this is my friend Miss Li
Lyn, this is my friend Miss Never_falter2

This was the first time I realized we rarely use last names we introduce ourselves. Then there was the whole Miss Freida thing -- and using Ma'am with officers but not enlisted and on and one. Who would have thought introductions could be so different! :banghead: :laugh:

 

[Never_falter2]

Jawohl, mein Dame!

Can I correct that? It’s a bit tricky it is

Jawohl, meine Dame (Ma’am, Yes, my Dame)... but then OTOH
Jawohl, mein Fräulein (Ma’am, Yes, my Fräulein), Jawohl/Jawoll is the more and more military Form of Ja, which means Yes. Again. I translate this with Ma’am in this case. I think it can be done like this.?But then I wonder if it makes sense to translate every second German word with Ma’am... How would you translate it @Neverthesame?

So for example both the Dame and the Fräulein are female but they have a different grammatical gender because some females (Fräulein, Mädchen) are considered “it“ (grammatically speaking) but other such as a Dame are considered “she“...

Oh and of course the correct title for me is not meine Dame but “powerful and merciful ruler of the earth and everything that’s on it, goodlooking and wise and so modest“.

I think it is not good to write to much about my background here. I am afraid to loose my anonymity... but I guess I am younger than you. It was my greatgrandfather who lived during the time of Weimar but he was a military man too.

As for this board first time I mentioned it, because I was asked which background I was from, got a hateful reaction. Second time I think one reason why I mentioned was that I wanted to see if I get I hateful reaction again because I wanted to see if it was really my background or my choice of words which they hated so much... but then it also made a bit of sense in this context because I do think people from different backgrounds do dress differently (but then people from different countries do too and it was stupid to ask there).

But enough of background... does somebody else has something to rant and complain?

Otherwise I have. For the first time in my life I drank licorice liquor today... but ?it was a small bottle and we do not have any left.

 

[Never_falter2]

and their names were backwards --- last name first
so my friend was Li Lyn -- her last name was Li

In Germany... actually depending on region type of setting they have the same backwards names. For example.
John Smith would be called Smith, John in Bavaria.

 

[Never_falter2]

Oh, how much I hate to be awake at this time of night cause Vet woke up.

 

[Neverthesame]

Can I correct that?

You most certainly may. I'm once again grateful for your helpful explanation.

Jawohl, meine Dame

I'm blaming Google for that error in grammar. Though it's interesting how the grammar changes depending on the formative used. One of these days I'll figure it out. Lol

Jawohl/Jawoll is the more and more military Form of Ja

I chose jawohl specifically, as it was an acknowledgement of a command from a person of a higher station. Being a lowly peasant such as I am. ;)

So for example both the Dame and the Fräulein are female but they have a different grammatical gender

I chose Dame as it was the closest thing I could think of to a title of status, as "lady" would be used in English to denote a woman of higher social standing. Interestingly, Dame is a title in Britain for a woman who holds the equivalent of a knighthood. I imagine it doesn't hold the same significance "auf Deutsche". But I couldn't resist, it simply fit the humour of the discussion too well to not use it. :D

Normally, I use "dear" when addressing a woman. It's old fashioned, yet not inappropriate for most situations. Otherwise I address a woman by whatever her name is. The closest equivalent I could find in Deutsche is "Liebling", though I think that's too affectionate.

A man I used to work with a few years ago who served in the Luftwaffe prior to emigrating here, told me that Fräulein is no longer used. That nowadays "frau" is used to address a woman irregardless of age or marital status. Apparently Fräulein is considered rude, which is why I didn't use it. Was he pulling my leg?

Oh and of course the correct title for me is not meine Dame but “powerful and merciful ruler of the earth and everything that’s on it, goodlooking and wise and so modest“.

Oh I see. What is the female equivalent to Kaiser? :p

I think it is not good to write to much about my background here. I am afraid to loose my anonymity...

Totally understandable. I won't press you further on that.

I guess I am younger than you. It was my greatgrandfather who lived during the time of Weimar but he was a military man too.

Actually, I made an error here. I'm in my thirties. An adult during the Weimar years would have been of my great-grandfather's generation as well. Math was never my strong suit, oops.

 

[Never_falter2]

I think that the Dame ist the equivalent of Ma’am again.... like I said... I translate nearly every English word with Ma’am, but I think in this case I might be right... because Dame is the same word as French Madame... and I think Ma’am derives from this too, doesn‘t it?
Meine Dame=chere Madame in French (not a literal translation)... and in English... maybe milady?
We do not really have that kind of privilege now in our society, but when we had it the female equivalent of a knight (and the knight himself... and a number of other people such as some other arisocrats but also doctors of the law, and later on everybody’s who was important for one or the other reason) was not addressed as meine Dame but as Hochwohlgeboren (high and wellborn). Today this is not really done anymore by most people.
A Dame may be the equivalent of a knight but she may also be everybody else. It is just a polite name for a woman.

As for Fräulein this is a bit complicated. Some people are offended because you call them Fräulein but otoh some people are offended because you do not call them Fräulein. I think the first group might be bigger than the second... and the biggest group does not care. Fräulein is a titlesimilar to Mademoiselle or Seniorita or I think also Miss (I heard Miss was rarely used nowadays) It means an unmarried woman, for example Fräulein Schmidt is the unmarrieddaughter of the Schmidt and if she marries she becomes Frau . So Fräulein has the idea of the male line, a woman cannot be a Frau until she marries a man and she has kids by his name but not by her birth name. When Fräulein Schmidt becomes Frau Müller she can only have Müller children but no Schmidt children.
Today many people do not see it like this anymore. They say that I woman should also be able to give her children her birth name. So the term is controversial for feminist reasons. According to German Wiki there was a poll with the result that 47% used the term, 44% did not use it and 7% took offense by it. They did not ask how many took offense by not being called Fräulein.

The female equivalent of a Kaiser is a Kaiserin, who is addressed as your majesty. We will graciously allow him to call us your majesty. (The Kaiser spoke of himself as we instead of I, called pluralis majestatis).

 

[grimalkin]

Oh and of course the correct title for me is not meine Dame but “powerful and merciful ruler of the earth and everything that’s on it, goodlooking and wise and so modest“.

:D love it!

Way back in my youth, my German speaking grandparents explained Frau vs Fraulein as Mrs. vs. Miss, ie, married vs unmarried. And they also touched on some of the changes (that were happening even just after WWII) for an equivalent of a woman not being identified according to her marital status (IE, in English, we have "Ms" (pronounced miz) which is (IMO) the most polite - it doesn't assume anything about relationship to a man. I just can't remember now if there WAS an equivalency in German.

@Never_falter2 I've never seen any of your behavior/words on here as snobby - just the difference between American culture and German, or at least upper-middle-class German. That is to say, I see some of the deference to societal norms as silly, simply because, holy crap life would be so much easier if we (collectively) didn't have to feel as if we needed to impress or fit in with the people who matter "more" than others. And I feel this way about American culture, too. So my own "silly" is compounded by knowing that other cultures are even more entrenched in the desire/need to fit in.

Basically, I don't see YOU as snobby. I see the pressure culture exerts on all of us to fit in as, well, frankly, ridiculous. (Ask me my opinions some time on why people think they need plastic surgery to nip and tuck in order to be accepted. I'm not angry that people want or think they need plastic surgery - I'm angry at the society that tells them they do!) :P

 

[Never_falter2]

I think Frau nowadays might be the equivalent to Miss. While in the past a Frau always needed to be married now many call an unmarried woman Frau too. However not everybody agrees with this. Some say a Frau needs to be married. Ms Smith= Frau Smith.
Oh... and you cannot call a woman “meine Frau“ that means “my wife“... you say “meine Dame“ = My Ma’am.

Thanks for your opinion. I am happy you do not see me as snobby. Yes, I do think German culture might be more collectivistic than American culture which has both pros and cons.

 

[Never_falter2]

BTW one last question about upper middle class. What kind of word is this in the English language? I would call people who graduated from university, master craftsmen if they earn enough and so on upper middle class. Does that make sense in English?

 

[Sweetpea76]

When you talk about “class” in the US, it is income based, not really social or educational. You could be lower class with a PhD here if you were low income. Likewise you could be an upper class high school dropout who makes a lot of money.

 

[Never_falter2]

I edit this because I might have been heard listening to this song today and ask: Do you know any songs about ptsd and how’d they move you?