Self-doubt - Can You Get Flashbacks Without Ptsd?

[macca]

I'm having a hard time after talking to my brother. He's the only one in my family that knows I have PTSD, and I haven't felt able to tell the others. My family has always had a bit of a "tradition" in minimising stuff that's happened to me, even life-threatening stuff. Not out of malice, but out of this belief they have about me that I "over-react". Well, it seems that the "over-reaction" stuff was PTSD (right through from about 3), but there is no family knowledge of any incidents, so to them I was just over the top. The thing is - I don't have a memory of an incident either. Only the memories from very young of what now looked to be trauma re-enactment play, plus several other bits and pieces of that are strongly suggestive of early CSA. I'd rather not go into the details here though. Our father has PTSD, and it fits the public perception of PTSD better, there's a clear-cut, very "understandable" reason for it. I and my mother and siblings were sometimes terrorised and emotionally abused by him as well, and I think my brother forgets that I experienced it too, and when he left home I was the only child left to bear the brunt of it.

My T (who diagnosed me) has been a trauma specialist for 15 years, and has spent many years working at the Maudsley in London (who have an internationally respected treatment centre). My T is normally very cautious about making any big calls, but seems convinced that it's very likely something did happen to me.

But after talking to my brother - who seems to think I've just imagined it all, and that at worst something just scared me rather than actually happened - and now I'm second-guessing myself again. So - is it possible to get flashbacks without having PTSD? They are visual, sometimes body pain in the lower regions, and emotional. Always terrifying. In EMDR, we came across something big, but it was a big stretch of highly charged terror, with no memory, in which I heard a voice say "I'll kill you if you tell" and followed by severe dissociation, which my T had to work hard to bring me back from.

But - could I be making it all up? To "explain" things? Can other things be mistaken for flashbacks? Can you get flashbacks if nothing ever happened to you? Hyperarousal? Triggered? I'd appreciate any input on this, as I'm really concerned about this. I don't want to think something happened if it didn't, and I also don't want to think nothing happened if it did. My T has done her PhD on how NOT to mislead people into incorrect memories during hypnosis - she is considering whether it is worthwhile regressing me with hypnosis and then processing anything that comes up next day with EMDR. I'm just - I don't know.

 

[Abstract]

macca, you have had your feelings and experiences minimised and invalidated your whole life and it makes total sense that your brother doing it now is making you doubt yourself like this. I truly know that feeling and I have realised that I am particularly sensitive to invalidation from my family members.

I wish I could say differently but I believe it is possible to have flashbacks of something that didn't happen because I have "met" (online) a few people who have had that experience. Very importantly all of them had multiple therapists suggest these things to them prior to them having them as memories.

That is not what happened to you. From early on you had all the signs of trauma and your t sounds qualified and responsible. I truly believe this is what happened to you.

You have hinted at other possible potentially traumatic experiences that you have had as well as the childhood emotional abuse. I wonder if it would help you to discuss some of these?

Your brother sounds a little like mine. He sounds determined to whitewash the past and that his way of coping is to deny and minimise. He probably can't cope with the idea that you have been harmed in this way.

 

[kellio]

I don't really know what to say, I can relate to this in many ways, and I believe that the gut instinct is normally right. Do not doubt yourself.

 

[franciemarnie]

Count me in too with a minimizing brother. And a minimizing family. Your reality and experience are being denied.

Is it possible that your brother dissociated and can't remember? Curious if he has symptoms from your father terrorizing you all. Terror is terror. There is no ordinary, run of the mill harmless terrorizing. I wonder if your brother is numb or drinks or does something to bury his reality. Or maybe it will hit him later.

I know it sounds like more happened to you than to your brother and that you can't literally frame-by-frame remember. I am just saying even without that lost trauma, you have sufficient grounds - so to speak -IMO.

If your family was "right" that nothing happened, you sure as hell would not be going thru what you are going thru. You are not perversely fabricating a disabling existence.

Trust your reality. The body doesn't lie.

 

[Lucycat]

My T (who diagnosed me) has been a trauma specialist for 15 years,

I am sorry but I don't really understand your question. " Can you get flashbacks without PTSD". Are you questioning the diagnosis of this very experienced T that you have?

I think yes, you can have flashbacks without having PTSD. Flashbacks alone do not give you the diagnosis, and from what you describe you do have other symptoms also. But was is the relevence?

Why are you doubting that you have PTSD?

 

[Seasounds]

Of course, you are not making anything. This is how I handle memories. I work with my memories in therapy as if they are real, for me, even if I can't tag them to 'reality' and even if my brother and sister deny them.

And (here is the twist) to keep everything very psychologically tidy, I treat my my memories as my truth, not anyone else's. This has helped in avoiding arguments with my brother and sister.

Hypnosis-only a relaxed and focused state of mind, like EMDR, will bring out a person's associations, a person's memories, and a person's truths...their experience/version of reality, that if treated as real, associated to, and emotionally processed, leads to healing.

No one has a patent on truth, and our experiences are real, for us.

 

[macca]

I so appreciate the input! Well, the earliest flashback happened when I was about 7. @Abstract Out of curiosity - the others you "met" - what did the flashbacks turn out to be? Are you saying those people didn't have flashbacks before it was suggested to them? I've even questioned myself as to whether it's psychosis. But my T has never said so. And then there's the triggered behaviour, the hyperarousal, the nightmares etc. I guess I wouldn't be questioning it if someone else had these things going on - it's because it's me, and because I have nothing concrete to pin it to. I know there are others here who have similar situations, where there's a lot of second-guessing of ourselves, due to poor memory. I guess that aspect of it has really gotten to me right now.

I guess I am very sensitive to invalidation too. I don't like to talk much about the other things that have happened, as I feel like I'm making too big a thing out of it. Most people have come through threatening situations at some time of their lives. But, for the sake of trying to get some clarity - among other things that have happened that my family have either ignored or minimised are a near-drowning at 11 years (I went under 3 times, my best friend saved my life, but my mother wouldn't even acknowledge it), had a close call with an asthma attack at 14 while travelling through bushfire smoke (I'd been at the hospital many times for much less, and my father wouldn't stop at the only hospital within reach, even though I thought I might die, and my body hurt for many days with the effort to breathe), a close call with a known rapist/paedphile at 13 years (I was alone at home and he was trying to get in), and almost rolled down the side of mountain in a car accident with my father (but we were saved by a sapling). Nothing was ever talked about or mentioned again. I feel like such a silly sook listing those things. I don't get flashbacks or triggered regarding any of them, they are just things that happened, but that hurt because I felt like I didn't matter. My visual flashbacks are of someone coming in the window, or sometimes the door - and that's the thing I keep questioning.

I love my brother, and he has definitely gone through some stuff. Out of all my family, he's the most likely to feel protective of me, so I guess it's possible he might rather think that it couldn't happen. He gently tried to remind me why our father has PTSD - from being forced night after night at the age of 15 years to encounter, and pull from cars, maimed bodies (those were the days before seatbelts, they worked on a tow-truck, and his father was in WWII, hard as nails). I think he was trying to demonstrate how much more "reasonable" it was that he had PTSD.

My therapist is highly qualified, highly experienced, and has a great reputation. I do trust her. It's funny, I trust her, but not myself. I honestly feel like a fraud, and I'm wondering why I'm making such a big deal out of all this. Yet here I am, I've already made a big deal out of it. I can't seem to tear myself out of this mindset. I must try to be logical with myself - it's not only my T who believes I have PTSD - a couples therapist who also works with combat veterans believed I had it too. I don't know why I'm doing this.

 

[Jezanna]

I would think in theory other things could mimic flashbacks like episodes Like temporal lobe epilepsy and other neuro issues. I too have a big brother and sisters that believe I don't have ptsd. Despite the fact I remember traumas as late as 16. I think in my case my siblings can't deny their issues and baggage if I don't deny mine. So in suppressing my memories it allows them to continue suppressing theirs and continue disconnected from reality. Not sure if that helps you.

 

[macca]

@Jezanna That does help actually. Could be what's happening. My family does try to "disappear" stuff. If they can pretend it didn't happen, then maybe it didn't happen (in their way of thinking). Like a toddler who thinks that if they can't see you, you can't see them. They catch me up in their crazy thinking sometimes.

 

[Abstract]

macca, they had a clear idea of a trauma that they thought happened but turned out not to have happened. It was false memory of a trauma and their minds acted as if. That freaks me out badly and is fuel to my favourite pastime - believing I am making it up and hating myself as a result. Invalidating my feelings and experiences. They had no memories or flashbacks of the event prior to having repeated exposure to multiple therapists suggesting the events. A therapeutic environment of it if you will. As far as I know all were traumatised by other things already. I wonder if it is only possible when someone is expressing one trauma in the form of another supposed trauma.

I work with my memories in therapy as if they are real, f

A few people with unclear memories have suggested to me what @change says here. I can't do that yet but what I do here is to talk anyway despite believing it isn't true. I say to myself it is't true but I will just talk anyway. Others have said they have done that in therapy too.

Your family ignoring serious incidents like that when they happen to a child or anyone says everything about your family dynamic. No wonder you doubt yourself and no wonder your brother has a pattern of invalidating experiences and feelings too. Parents not reacting appropriately to situations like this seriously messes with a child's perception of reality and ability to take care of and be tuned into themselves. It also leaves them feeling afraid and unprotected which is true if you think about it. Neglect of all types results in serious consequences for a child.

No one suggested any of the flashbacks to you. No one suggested the trauma re enacting play you did as a child. Your t never suggested anything in t or EMDR.

Lay people often don't understand how traumatising sexual assault is. I believe it is one of the most likely trauma types to produce PTSD percentage wise. Would your brother read something educational?

I treat my my memories as my truth, not anyone else's

I love this way of dealing with things. Your feelings and memories are yours and deserve you to honour them.

 

[Abstract]

My family does try to "disappear" stuff.

I think that's usually the case in these situations. It's a whole family environment of minimisation, denial and invalidation. It's the default way that things are dealt with and often families like this are phobic of emotions and the display of any emotions.

 

[Jezanna]

Also according to my recently x tdoc , its also really common for siblings to be jealous of the sibling they perceive as not being abused as severely as themselves. This can color their views as well. Guess I'm saying to trust yourself .

 

[macca]

It was false memory of a trauma and their minds acted as if. That freaks me out badly and is fuel to my favourite pastime - believing I am making it up and hating myself as a result. Invalidating my feelings and experiences. They had no memories or flashbacks of the event prior to having repeated exposure to multiple therapists suggesting the events. A therapeutic environment of it if you will. As far as I know all were traumatised by other things already. I wonder if it is only possible when someone is expressing one trauma in the form of another supposed trauma.

Yes, that's how it goes around in circles isn't it? I really appreciate your support on this, as I am aware from other posts of your own difficulties in this area, particularly with dissociation. I'm only just becoming aware of how much I do dissociate, as I've been doing it in her office and she's making me aware of it. She explained to me that dissociation, and your mind "blocking" you, often happens when there has been early trauma, as that is a young child's tendency. Maybe we both need to give ourselves a break!

@change I really like your approach. I aim to try and take this on, this could help.

Trust your reality. The body doesn't lie.

Thanks. I know you've read my other recent posts, and know that I've been trying to confirm some things. It's good to be able to feel less alone in this cycle of invalidation, though I would wish none of us had to deal with it.

@Lucycat I'm still trying to bring myself out of this mental state. I go from knowing that my T is right, that I have PTSD, to questioning it whenever I feel even slightly better, or if I have contact with my family. I've had a bit of contact with them today and yesterday, and I think it's brought out my old patterns.