News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

[anthony]

Yes, that does seem to be an issue... as what Lipov is doing is done differently for PTSD than when used for pain, and pain specialists are rejecting people who have PTSD only, and/or, not performing it the same for pain + PTSD vs. just pain alone, as there is no empirical data on Lipov's treatment yet for PTSD alone, and has changed substantially from initial statements of "perfect cure" to already 80% or less helpful, not removal of symptoms.

Even if this treatment only turns out to be a significant reduction in symptoms for those at the severe spectrums, it would still be better than popping pills with massive side effects and medical implications IMO. I know if this was around when I was at my worst many years ago, I would have flown from Australia to Chicago to get it done, just to test it out for myself.

If this ever does show real promise for all PTSD, then in the future, if it does come to Australia, I may even get it myself just to remove any residual affects, if it works... but if it doesn't allow me to work again, then it would be pointless for me personally, as I have got most of my symptoms to nil providing I manage my daily stressor intake. If I don't... or something external that I do not control affects me, symptoms can overwhelm me, but recovery is quick... so if it has promise in the future still, I will be taking it up. If not... keep working on oneself and looking to the guru's for a possible cure one day.

 

[Kim A4]

TLight, the best advice I can give you is to research your state's pain and spine specialists. Call their office to make sure the SGB is a procedure offered and maybe even ask what the cost is going to be out of insurance, the recepetion should be able to tell you. My personal suggestion is to try your best to weed out a younger more open-minded physician if at all possible. Reception may be able to steer you that was as well.
After that, you have to meet with the doctor with all your research and articles about the injection for PTSD (convo me and I can forward links to all these articles and specific injection directions from Lipov), and I would even suggest that if the pain specialist still hesitates, to ask him to call Dr. Lipov's office in Chicago.

Because I am now connecting with Congress on this issue, I had the honor of speaking with Lipov yesterday, and at one time he was encouraging distant patients to have local doctors offer this injection. He attempted to set up an agreeing-physician network, but because it is out of insurance, many docs balked at possibly being stiffed for the bill. I still highly encourage you to try.

Lipov deperately wants to build a "Center for PTSD Excellence" next where he can train other physicians and set up clinics all over the world. Of course funding is the big hurdle. He possibly already has a building and diagnostic equipment offered to him, but needs air miles to fly vets in and out, and of course, money to staff and run the center.

He did also inform me of a newer science that can now be used to diagnose PTSD with over 97% success in about 15 minutes, and plans to use it prior to the SGB to confirm PTSD exists first. It is called magnetoencephalography or MEG and has been used for some time to diagnose Alzheimers, Parkinsons among other brain issues.

I am still too "new" here to post links but if you Google "MEG" with "Georgopoulos" (the doctor who discovered this use of the MEG for PTSD), you will see a link about 4 lines down to an article an the Workplace Bullying Institute site about MEG and PTSD. Lipov hopes to incorporate this technology into his treatment process and it is very cool - like a helmet that reads the brain, and non-invasive as well.

I am learning a great deal about this procedure every day and I can tell anyone who is curious that it is no fluke. As one of the pre-eminent pain specialists in the US, Lipov would not be pursuing this treatment were it not worthwhile and producing high successes. He has many other successful treatments he has spearheaded, but I think this one is special to him in its powerful results. He is clearly a compassionate man, and is appalled by the statistics that persist. He told me that the suicide rate of PTSD soldiers currently is 1,000 per month and that about 30%, of our women veterans have PTSD due to being attacked by our male soldiers in the field.
It will take, however, at least another 2-3 years for this treatment to become more mainstreamed, even if all goes well, so perhaps that may incentivize you to search more locally if you cannot get to see him in Chicago. Again, please (anyone) convo with me privately if you want to discuss this in more detail.

Lipov spent 5 days with Congressional and Senatorial sub-committees last week and says he got a positive response. He is seeking, for the 3rd time, grant money for another study. So far he has been given nothing, despite the Department of Defense having spent millions upon millions on wasteful "quack" procedures with no results. Good news is that a Navy Captain has just acquired funds to do a SGB/PTSD study on combat vets, after she was taken with Lipov's presentation at his congressional testimony last August.

Also, check out the site for Chicago Medical Innovations (Lipov's non-profit fundraising arm) for PTSD info. There is a clip of a recent Chicago NBC news story about SGB and PTSD.
Kim

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[brink]

I just want to say thank you to all who have contributed to this thread, especially those of you who bravely went ahead and had the procedure done. It has been something like ten years since I did much research on available treatments for PTSD, and this was not even on the radar at that time. It's definitely something that I'll consider.

 

[yomama]

I also want to say thanks for this thread - this treatment is very intriguing. I especially appreciate those who tried it and shared their experiences so candidly. Also, thanks to everyone who posted citations and info for further research.

 

[IchBin]

Another week has passed for me, and things are still changing everyday. Several days ago I had a most interesting dream (I happen to be in dream therapy at the moment and so I have been tracking them for 7 months or so). It was set in a location of childhood significance for me - where I have only happy memories - and it involved one of my perpetrators moving items out of this house. I have had dreams of a similar kind before (after I broke up with a girlfriend), so to me this signifies my brain letting go of something/someone. What's more, in all my other recorded dreams, there was never anything even close to this one in terms of positive symbolism. Things continue to go well, fingers crossed.

peace

ib

 

[Aj]

To all those who have followed my story, here I am for another update -

First off, my apologies for not writing sooner. Life has been so different and while I'm still playing the game, it feels like some of the basic elements have changed.

I did something that I would NOT recommend following the SGB. I chose to immediately begin to taper and quit my anxiety/depression medication. Now, before I begin, let me say that life had become a barrage of terrible incidents preceding my shot: my sister was hospitalized with pneumonia, my father had a heart attack, and then my girlfriend dropped me two weeks later. It was probably the lowest I had been in a long, long time and most definitely one of the darkest moments.

But I can still say, almost a month later, that this shot has been a huge blessing. While I grapple with anxiety and depression still (as I'm still going through withdrawl let alone my own issues after ten years of PTSD), the anxiety is like a totally different frequency. It's not something that is constantly gripping my life. In fact, even through the withdrawl the anxiety is like a distant blip that comes and goes; it's so incredibly manageable that it's shocking. SSRI withdrawl is quite a load of new problems, but I'm trying to stick it out. I do NOT recommend stopping your meds around or following the procedure, should you elect to receive it.

Right now I'm doing some life inventory. Trying to get my life in order and having the wherewithal to actually comprehend life and it's challenges. For the first time in a long time the echoes of a rational mind are beginning to run the show, instead of this blinding anxiety.

If I could give any advice to those planning on getting the block it would be this:
- (obviously) do not stop your anxiety/depression medications or any PTSD meds without a doctor's supervision and consider doing so at least a month to two months down the road.
- consider how to handle the repercussions of this treatment. If it works, if it doesn't work. These will alter things for you either way. Even if it works, there will be a dramatic change and while it's effects are welcomed, they need to be treated as major changes either way.
- have the same support system there for you if things work or not.
- remember that other forum members are here for you to help when we can. I know I wouldn't have gotten through any of this without them, a few in particular (you know who you are).

I will of course try to remain active here. After ten years of living life under the gun of PTSD, the motions aren't going to disappear right away. And I hope that my sharing will of course benefit others.

TLight: I don't think I can add more than Kim (who was my inspiration). It's a matter of finding a reputable, open minded pain management specialist who would be willing to perform the Chicago Block (or modified SGB) on you.

 

[brink]

AJ, thank you so much for this update. You have wise words to share. My husband decided a few years ago to try discontinuing paxil (an SSRI) and, for us, it was a nightmare. When he finally went back to his doctor to tell him what was happening and asked him what to do, he said "well, start taking it again." And so he did. The difference is night and day. Even without the PTSD, some of us may still need additional meds.

I do hope you will continue to post here, at least in this thread. It's been quite inspiring reading your story.

 

[TLight]

I contacted Dr. Lipov's office in Chicago. I asked to be on the waiting list, thinking that I could not afford both the trip and the procedure, being on disabilty.

I was told by staff they wanted medical records, mainly physical type records regarding epilesy, seizures, or anything that the block might affect. I gave them my psyche doc and my GP. My therapist, whom I was with for 6 years, is deeply ill with Parkinson and can barely communicate, in fact, I really don't even know if she is living still. I saw another therapist briefly who said I was at least a 10 year job and she'd be retiring before that. However, she did put together a letter of her diagnosis and prognosis, that was sent to my psyche doc. I have PTSD, mulitple traumas, dissociative disorder and borderline personality disorder.

So I get a call back from the office. They've denied me for the procedure. They refuse to tell me why. I'm thinking now that with my complex trauma prognosis, being a study participate would not show the results they need to get further funding, since I have extreme issues going on.

I'm thinking of calling back and asking them if they'll do it if I pay for it.
This is the best I can deduce. Needless to say, I felt pretty hopeless after the call.

 

[IchBin]

I'm sorry to hear this. I initially got on the list too, but later on decided to just self-pay instead. If you pay yourself, I see no reason why they wouldn't do it, barring any potential medicine interactions or unique physical problems. For me they needed very little, I just filled out the sheets they sent about medical history and told them I was getting the shot for PTSD. Best of luck to you!

 

[Kim A4]

Thanks for the powerful words of advice, Aj....and BTW you, IchBin and the the others who have had the courage to investigate and follow through with the SGB are MY inspiration as I continue to plant info seeds and spread the word.

As Aj mentioned, there is an ethereal and strange adjustment period after the injection that needs time to play itself out. Life can feel drastically different, albeit in a generally very nice way, but it is a serious change nonetheless. I would not advise anyone to make changes to meds or therapies until the fallout of this adjustment is stabilized, which could be a month or more. Even then, certainly not without professional supervision. Most of us probably still may have issues outside of PTSD that the injection will not reverse. SGB for PTSD is a fantastic procedure, but can only affect the specific chemical functions of the insular cortex. Secondary depressions and anxieties may still remain, but I bet they will be much easier to manage after the injection. My "2 cents" overall is to enjoy the gratitude of the "fight or flight" relief, but to be very patient with expecting anything approaching emotional perfection.

In regards to dreams, I had very vivid dreams for weeks after the injection. I have theories on this, and how trauma memories are stored within the adreanaline "factory" created at the time of trauma. Based on my knowledge of EMDR therapy (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), emotions need to "cross over" to the storage side of the brain to become neutralized. Every night when we sleep, our day's brain activity literally moves from one side of the brain to the other during REM sleep (while our eyes move quickly about), and this can be seen on functional MRI. I believe that the post-SGB dreams are the long-awaited final processing of trauma-related memories. At the very least, this theory help me get through many nights of very realistic dreaming and some oddly confused mornings. It has now stopped, and my trauma memories, as mentioned before, have all faded to "normal" levels. I have to try pretty hard to even recall some of them now.....which is a great relief. Today I am about 10 weeks post SGB.

News from Lipov is that he has completed the draft of his book about the SGB for PTSD and hopes to get it published soon.

Another point I would like to make to those awaiting this treatment to become available in the mainstream, is to not hold your breath. The protocol for getting military studies done, at least under the Department of Defence will take at least a couple of years. Lipov estimates up to 3 more years, best case scenario, to get the procedure potentially available for "earmarked" funding within the military. I am still unfamiliar with what is required in the civilian sector to get the procedure officially recognized and made available to the public. Since the injection is already FDA-approved for pain management, I assume that is a help, but insurance companies no doubt require a huge amount a proof before adding a new treatment to their covered procedures.
As a result, I am urging those interested, as before, to stay hopeful about relief but to seek a good pain management physician locally. Arm yourself with SGB for PTSD info (please convo me for a list of links) and be persistent. You may need to approach more than one doctor before finding one who will perform the block for PTSD. Also, be prepared to spend between $800 and $1000 for the procedure out of pocket.

Also, a side note.....this past Wednesday, Obama signed new legislation whereby now the military will send condolence letters to families of soldiers who commit suicide in the field due to PTSD. Prior to this week, their families received no condolence. I am appalled that our prior procedure was so unsympathetic. Seriously...wtf?

Also, Anthony, can you share with me where you are getting your statistics on the success rate of this treatment so far?

 

[anthony]

So what you're saying AJ, is that it hasn't remove PTSD for you really? Its lessened some pain aspects and associated symptoms, but PTSD is still present?

Or are you only saying that you believe PTSD is now gone, but medication withdrawal is the only thing affecting your symptoms?

 

[anthony]

So I get a call back from the office. They've denied me for the procedure. They refuse to tell me why. I'm thinking now that with my complex trauma prognosis, being a study participate would not show the results they need to get further funding, since I have extreme issues going on.

This is why studies don't study complex trauma, pretty much period, unless wanting to show just how difficult it is to treat. Hence childhood and combat trauma are the two hardest types of trauma to treat in order to show good results.

I would really hate to see Lipov fall into this same area for his treatment, where it no longer becomes about whether it works or not, but about falsifying and misleading results by selective patient application, which is exactly what studies mostly already do... thus tainting results before the study even begins.