Dom Violence The Double Standard Of Men In DV

[scout86]

@Nevergivup I'm sorry the conversations with you keep misconnecting. I don't find it at all difficult to believe that your wife has PTSD. Reading your accounts, I couldn't help but wonder if she even knew who she was trying to kill when she wrapped the cord around her child's neck. Caught up in dissociation, flashbacks, she might well have thought she was dealing with someone else.

That matters, from the stand point of the strangler. Not so much from the stand point of the stranglee. I believe it qualifies as a "Criteria A trauma" regardless of the motivation. A far as your 2 year old running to comfort her mom.... That's sweet. Can I put a different spin on it? (Not saying I know how to interpret it, BTW.) My mother, I'm pretty sure, didn't have PTSD. I'm pretty sure she qualified for one, or more, diagnoses though. I learned early on that "mom upset" was a bad thing. It somehow became my responsibility to make sure that didn't happen. I can see a kid running to the parent, hoping to calm things down, out of fear. That's all I'm saying. If you look around here, you can find plenty of stories about the complex relationships that form when a person you're attached to is also your abuser and the motivation the abuser isn't a huge factor. As a kid, you generally don't see the motivation, you generally just figure it's your fault. AND what's the deal with threatening people?

The rest of you, what I said earlier about, boys not being told it's not ok to cry? The more I've thought about that, I think it's equally important that GIRLS not be taught it's not ok for boys to cry and for BOYS not be taught girls are people too delicate to take care of themselves. (Then maybe my SO's wouldn't have been upset that I didn't "need" them. LOL As if wanting them in my life wasn't enough?)

 

[Friday]

THIS THREAD IS NOT A CONTINUATION OF A LOCKED THREAD

Any & all further attempts to rehash other arguments from other threads will result in thread bans with content deleted. The only thing threadjacking will get you is a waste of your own time.

This thread is to discuss the double standard men in domestic violence. Not one member’s story being jumped on and picked apart by other members, providing an perfect example of of how men are demonized, belittled, and ridiculed... And it will stop right now. Following that member around, and tagging them in this -or any other thread- to attempt to draw them back into a locked discussion, bait them, or pick a fight will result in a Temp Ban.

Knock it off.

@Kubash16 @EveHarrington @Nevergivup @somerandomguy @scout86

 

[EveHarrington]

I don’t think you can solve the double standard issue by focusing only on male victims.

The world needs to understand and accept that there are female perpetrators.

Once EVERYONE can be a potential perpetrator ie all demographic groups, then all people can be seen as victims when they indeed have been victimized.

 

[joeylittle]

@Nevergivup - I'm going to direct you to the supporters area.

There are two main boards: Supporter Discussion and Dead Link Removed

Sufferers can give you their insight into their own experience of a symptom, and some are quite knowledgeable on the details of this disorder. But - they do not share your perspective, as a supporter. You'll find that area of the board more useful. If you have any further questions, you can take them up with staff or myself by starting a thread in Contact us

Back to the thread. Thanks.

 

[somerandomguy]

A man who is going through a domestic violence situation needs to ask for help, especially if there are kids involved. He probably isn't going to be able to get out of the situation by himself, which in itself is a difficult thing for most men to accept.

But a major problem comes up in that many if not most guys have been socialized to never show weakness. Asking for help shows weakness. Instead, a man in that situation might go on the offensive. But going on the offensive over something like that, especially if there are kids involved, is going to make the guy look like an insensitive prick to others and NOT like someone who needs help.

So your choices as a dude are to look weak and ask for help, which not all guys can do, or puff yourself up and look like a prick, and then not get what you need because you're a prick.

Lots of people would say, well, men have to risk vulnerability. But that's not a real solution if you're in real life and death trouble and you've never had to be vulnerable ever before.

People forget asking for help is HARD and may very well react with unhelpful anger and victim-blaming instead of compassion - including other men. (Including me.)

Guys who'd like to talk about this no-win situation for us and people's helpful and unhelpful reactions to it are invited to join the Dead Link Removed here at MyPTSD.

 

[somerandomguy]

The world needs to understand and accept that there are female perpetrators.

People like black-and-white situations. Nuanced situations are confusing, and no one likes being confused.

The world makes more sense if, say, Asia Argento is only a victim and not both a victim and a perp. It's much easier to navigate these very complicated issues if women are always victims and men are always predators, so that's the way most people (both men and women) think, especially since it's finally been made clear that most women have been and continue to be harassed in many settings. Unfortunately, #MeToo has also served to solidify people's thinking that "men are perps" instead of "a small number of men are perps, and a larger number of men are victims."

These issues are not helped by the veil of stoicism men have been socialized to adopt when victimized.

 

[EveHarrington]

Unfortunately, #MeToo has also served to solidify people's thinking that "men are perps"

#metoo has gone astray in more ways than one.

Yes, the movement has done much good, but it has also taken some wrong turns along the way.

I’m one of those people who could see the potential downfalls from the beginning and refused to say #metoo. I didn’t want to get lumped into a movement that never really welcomed me in the first place.

 

[Muttly]

Alright, I will join in to this thread. I have had two cases of what some people call dry rape. Yeah, I know. Technically it wasn't rape as there was no penetration. The one that was clearly sexual assault was from a woman. I had said no. I physically fought. The few times I've told the story, including to therapists, it was dismissed as .... what. Sexual play. Misunderstanding of boundaries.

I gave up talking about what happened with her, even though it hurt me much more deeply than most other abuse I've experienced. Even though I loved her and had trusted her more deeply than almost anyone else to that point and she knew my history. And we had talked about her forcing herself onto me before. (I didn't say no other times, just gave up and went along because that's what she f*cking demanded.). I can't even begin to tell you how hurt that one runs because of the betrayal. Because for once in my life I actually tried to have boundaries and she physically grabbed me and forcibly started f*cking me with her clothes on. The way she grabbed me and used her body against me while I said no and tried to pull away, would have been seen as horrible if a man had done it to a woman. But because she was a woman, *I* was the one who had a problem. I was the one who must have sent her mixed signals or just been easily offended and/or weird because I wasn't into it. I still avoid talking about it to my very good therapist because I feel like she doesn't get it.

The other time I mentioned. With a guy. I don't really consider as any sort of sexual assault. I froze. I stopped being willing but I never said no and I'd let it get to a certain point and yeah, it turns out he knew I wasn't wiling but I didn't say no. I didn't try to stop it. But that one, I can get sympathy and understanding and talk about what consent is. That one. The one that doesn't leave me feeling this deep hurt and betrayal. The one that I right off as a bad experience that shows I wasn't ready to date yet because I hadn't dealt with my trauma.

What the woman did to me was a thousand times worse for me because of how close we were. Because we'd played the apology and repeat game that's so common in dv. Because like many times away, I'd tried simply putting physical space between us but she was the predator and I was her prey and in the end, I had to fight her off and I can't even talk about it because people don't get what the big deal is. So what she grabbed me and was holding me down using physical force against me. A woman can't be a perp, right?

And while I'm on that subject, I have a friend who was deeply traumatized by the time his bio mom stabbed his dad. I don't know much, he has troubles talking about it. And I have to confess, when I first heard about it I wondered what he did too deserve it. But I've seen my friend's face when he talks about it. How his dad spent weeks in the hospital and she never even got charged. How frightening she was. He hates that she walked off free. He has reason to hate that.

And now I need to cool myself down because apparently I can't handle this thread.

 

[Ronin]

I think people underestimate the amount & seriousness of emotional violence that can go with the other types if the abuser is a woman.

Some words are knives, in ways guys are not c*nts in, commonly.

 

[Mach123]

Well, I've been reading along. You know what I think it is, and of course women are not given enough credit as is so often the case. She can be guilty of DV.

The men have been groomed often times remember and are making themselves a target. Some women can become violent others never would. Many of these men have already been abused and are struggling with all kinds of really hard stuff and sex and gender confusion and so on.

The reaction? It's not gonna be very sympathetic for the men but there are professional people who can help.

It's much better, back when I was a kid it was much different.

It's a good thread, it's a difficult subject. I've been reading a lot about it the last few weeks. Not so much DV but just being submissive and the difficulties men face with this. The fawn or freeze response. Yes, women can do it. Yes, men get a different response.

 

[Neverthesame]

So your choices as a dude are to look weak and ask for help, which not all guys can do, or puff yourself up and look like a prick, and then not get what you need because you're a prick.

Just popping back in to say;
There is an enormous amount of wisdom in this whole post, and is something I will look back upon and try to remember in future.

It was humbling to read and am grateful @somerandomguy was able to express this so eloquently.
Thank you for this one, it gave me a lot to think about.

 

[somerandomguy]

Thank you for this one, it gave me a lot to think about.

Thanks to the mods and especially @Friday for forcing me to actually use my brain about this instead of just reacting. I also owe someone a huge f*cking apology.