The Games People Play

[shimmerz]

I have been listening to a conference call this evening (still am). It speaks of Transactional Analysis (old school) and 'the games people play' with us. lol. Yep. I had no idea these things were scripted. I actually thought my abusers were being quite original! Nope..... There must be an 'abusers handbook' out there - oh wait - there is - it is called The Games People Play. There is an online PDF file of the book (so I am guessing it is free?).

There is also a website that details 'types' of games. It is eerie how I have been playing into some of these games and felt trapped... and the answer seems (right now) to be quite easy in extricating myself from the game. I keep focusing on the people, not the game. I don't want the people out of my life, however, if it must be that they refuse to leave 'the game' then the game I will leave. Wow. Kinda simple when I look at it like that.

Oh, and btw, there was a strong warning that when one attempts to 'leave a game' things can get violent. That many people have an extremely strong attachment to their 'games'. Yep. I recall two marriages in which I attempted to extricate myself from a game or two that blew up my entire life.

You might want to check out this website (of games etc). There are good games too. I didn't know that.... I didn't know a ton of this stuff. I will be pouring over it for a while. Any thoughts on this? Anyone recognize themselves in a game similar to those listed on the site? Does it help to see it as a 'game' and remove oneself from the person in the game? BTW, I didn't choose the 'Kick Me' game for any real reason. They also talk about the Karpman Drama Triangle.... I just don't see it on the website.
http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/kick-me/

 

[Truthful_Whispers]

If he gets out of line, ring his f*cking bell a time or two. I guarantee he will gladly shutup. Class dismissed.

 

[Friday]

IDK... I'm reading half baked 1970s psych, overlaid ontop of shallow & bitter sweeping generalizations. Bloke sounds like he's trying to create D&D characters, and failing. All he's doing is describing stereotypes. And not very well, at that... Because more often than not, in addition to 2D renderings he's completely misattributing cause. :meh:

 

[Ronin]

Similar impressions on a lot of game theory as FJ, though I'm happy you're helped by new information, @shimmerz. Quite often even complete hogwash and/or partial and too generalized psychology + reflecting on own histories can do wonders for recovery, and it's your path that matters the most in this.

 

[scout86]

I remember reading that book a long time ago. There might even be a copy of it around here someplace. (I didn't read what was on the web site.) At the time, I remember reacting kind of like you are @shimmerz . I think that may have been because people were largely beyond my comprehension and it was helpful to have someone point out that there ARE patterns and trends and that some aspects of human behavior might actually be predictable. It was very much a "Holy cow! Who knew????" moment. To that I guess I'd add what my T always says about how "we all have our own road map of reality. They are all just maps, none of them are 'reality'."

I once got to watch a good friend look sternly at his wife and say, "Don't go there with me." to end one of these "games". THAT was a revelation too. Who knew "not playing" was an option?

Most sweeping generalizations have SOME basis in reality. I think it's important to be aware that there's the possibility for exceptions and variations on themes, but it's kind of neat to see that there are patterns and similarities.

 

[shimmerz]

I haven't read it yet and appreciate all of the takes on the book. The information in the conference call struck me big time as they spoke about how to extricate oneself from these types of games. The triangulation reference spoke to me loudly as this has been going on for years with me and I have felt trapped in it. I have, just this week, walked away from every form of dynamic that I have been involved in and yesterday was the first day that I felt 'clear'. I will read the book today and see whether it is helpful or not.

It seems odd to me that most of these chronic problems I have been having with 'relating' to others seem to be based on games that I have been involved in. Your input allows me to see things with a filter I would not normally have had. I appreciate it.

 

[Friday]

+ reflecting on own histories can do wonders for recovery, and it's your path that matters the most in this.

Fair point, well made. I was being cranky, & apologize @shimmerz.

***

One thing I would be very careful of, however, is the assumption of intent. People do play games. Most of his examples? Are not games people play.

- The "alcoholic in the gutter with the nagging wife, boozy friend, & valient doctor," (all conspiring to keep him down, and if they would only XYZ, then he, except of course his valiant doctor -Yeesh, transference, much?- ... Whom he is blah blah blah ), is a classic stereotype. But go to any AA meeting, & one will find not only is that stereotype of skid row alcoholic with the harping wife the minority (in rooms filled with kindergarten teachers, doctors, lawyers, students, etc.), but the assumptions made about the "games" are entirely incorrect.

- Or the whole "frigid woman" of the wife out to drive her husband to violence or infidelity by being "casually dressed", and then refusing him sex...

- Or, or, or... The whole thing is full of so much gaslighting, blame shifting, manipulation, and other nonsense that it honestly makes me sick to read it. For every single one of his "This is what's happening and why!" examples, I could give easily a dozen counter examples, still true to type... Or completely refute his so called logic & blame shifting.

Can some of the examples he uses be true? Absolutely. But I would tread very carefully with this man's assumptions & conclusions.

If you're interested in "types" of people... I would recommend that you either look into Profiling (which instead of 1 behavior = 1 cause = 1 effect, which is what this bloke is espousing... Profiling looks at the variety of causes, multiple possibilities for intent behind behaviors, and the even more varied possible effects of said causes & behaviors), or Character Development (fictional; which in order not to be bad B-movie stereotypes, actually needs to apply the same principles psych profiling does).

Also... I think you might be very interested in "schemas"... Which is related to this topic of behavior patterns, but very different than profiling. Any intro to psych textbook will discuss them, and several disciplines within psych discuss them at length: in short they are the scripts we use & roles we assume around people we're familiar with... For good or ill. Schemas in and of themselves are neutral. They can be either positive or negative to us or the people around us.

 

[scout86]

One thing I would be very careful of, however, is the assumption of intent

Like I said, it's been years since I read the book. This part I don't remember (probably because I was too busy being fascinated by the existence of some kind of pattern to it all.) But that sort of assuming would be a definite problem.

With all kinds of people, I imagine there are different levels of intent and awareness both. I suspect that, a lot of the time, the people on BOTH sides of the "game" aren't real aware there's a script. Like my buddy, who called his wife on her "game". She was playing what I call the "oh poor me, I can't do anything right so don't be mad at me" game. I doubt she thought of it as a game. I suspect that, in the past (often?) she had screwed something up, someone was unhappy about it, she started running herself down, they felt they had to disagree and started doing that.... The end result was they didn't get mad at her AND they told her she was really ok, great, fine, etc. Perfect! Except it was also kind of silly and a waste of time. And he knew where it was going and wasn't interested in going there.I suspect on some level she knew what she was doing, but I doubt she was thinking "If I say this, he'll say that" exactly. Mostly, I suspect this is just stuff that people have learned gets them something they want. With the possible exception of psychopaths? Someone like that might "play games", knowing full well they are, just for the fun of it. Like a cat playing with a mouse.

BUT, having grow up in the presence of that particular game, and hating it passionately, it was amazing to find out you don't have to return the serve. You can just watch the ball go by and walk off the court. Why didn't I think of that?

 

[sun seeker]

Mostly, I suspect this is just stuff that people have learned gets them something they want. With the possible exception of psychopaths? Someone like that might "play games", knowing full well they are, just for the fun of it.

Also (ducking out of Scout's way) remember structural dissociation and that a person's behaviour is not always indicative of all of who they are. Some people are purposely playing games, yes. Most are just trying to survive as best they can. Doesn't mean we should put ourselves in harm's way. But I don't think we should be too quick to assume bad intent, either.

 

[scout86]

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: :wideeyed:

 

[shimmerz]

Why didn't I think of that?

They talk about regressed child states vs adult states. Talk like an adult and things stop. 'Don't go there with me!' is a great example. I am completely naive when it comes to things like this. I take people at face value. Stupid. When I realize how long it did (and still is) taking me to blow out my scripts, the therapy I have been in to help me realize those scripts....well, most people are not self aware. They mindlessly play this shit out.

I used to be a big one for intentions. If someone didn't intend to hurt then it didn't count. No more. Hurt is hurt, regardless of the intention.

the people on BOTH sides of the "game" aren't real aware there's a script.

And this is the thing. It is through MY awareness that it stops. Not through someone else's. I recognize this as well...

remember structural dissociation and that a person's behaviour is not always indicative of all of who they are.

This I agree with. However, if I keep bringing it back to me (which is a battle in and of itself), if a certain 'part' is presenting itself and it is hurting me....well, I have had enough hurt to last 20 lifetimes. I need to take some time, walk away and lick my wounds for a while before I knowingly expose myself to this stuff anymore. Calm. I need calm. I need self reflection time. I need to know how it feels to not be attacked, triangulated upon, extricate myself from Karpman Drama Triangle shit so that I have something to mark how calm feels.

I was being cranky, & apologize Link Removed.

No need to apologize Friday. I appreciate your take on this stuff, as always. I see you as a critical thinker, which does not come naturally to me. It is a helpful 'checksum' when you throw things (such as this posting) around for me the mull over.

"This is what's happening and why!" examples, I could give easily a dozen counter examples, still true to type... Or completely refute his so called logic & blame shifting.

Yup. Got it. And I will be careful, thank you. Having lived with an alcoholic, I can see the 'garbage in, twist it around and back in again' game that I was caught in. I didn't actually see it at the time. I recognize that regardless of my protestations, I was enabling because I didn't action on it. My part in the game.
So for me this is a template for:
1. Recognizing that games are played (with or without intention)
2. Recognizing that someone may be sucking ME into their game
3. Realizing that I may well be falling into my own dysfunctional shit because I am even tempted to fall into the game
4. Get the f*ck out before the game becomes dangerous (I screw this one up ALL THE TIME)

I don't care much for stereotypes, but can see how I played into the game....and again, didn't see it. I am not certain that I am concerned so much about the details of the game, but rather that I was IN a game. And that I played. Like Scout says....I just find it fascinating that there even ARE games.

I will definitely look up the references that you made for more up to date and perhaps relevant information and appreciate your warnings.

I suspect this is just stuff that people have learned gets them something they want.

And what they want may not be good for them or the people around them. And the people around them may include ME.

I feel like I have been looking at an ink blot test and have seen a 'picture' all of my life. Then someone walks by and says 'hey! Do you see the woman (for example) in that picture?' lol. Nope. Been staring at the picture for 54 years and can honestly say, I have never clued into that aspect of it. And seeing that one aspect changes the filter for everything....idk. Still reading.

 

[shimmerz]

Quite often even complete hogwash and/or partial and too generalized psychology + reflecting on own histories can do wonders for recovery

Yes, thank you Cashew. For whatever reason I am having a difficult time getting through the book. That indicates something to me. However, something here is calling to me. I will continue to research in this area to see what actually DOES call to me.