Therapist Clueless About Sociopaths

[anthony]

I totally agree that PTSD is PTSD

I'm not bringing PTSD into this... it is irrelevant based on your question.

All trauma is unique, but by no means distinct, and by no means is one abuser type worse than another, which is what the question poses. We could make assumptions and futuristic thinking on behalf of deceased gunmen, stating they could have been a sociopath or such, and completely disregard known tendencies that define sociopathic / psychopathic behaviour, of which the majority of these kids who go kill random student do not have, have been proven beyond a doubt in past cases, yet if you asked those who got shot and survived, they would likely call the kid with the gun a psychopath anyway, because they shot them in their school.

Sociopath is another word for psychopathy, which binds psychopathic behaviour, or psychopath as you want to call it here.

A parent who abuses their child for years and years, the majority aren't suffering psychopathy... they're just shitty parents, they're selfish, uncaring, alcoholics, drug addicts, and the list goes on. Ask a child abused by a parent who suffers PTSD. The parent isn't a sociopath or psychopath, they suffer PTSD and yet they can abuse a child to such an extent both emotionally and/or physically (vietnam vets have a long string of these cases) that the child has complex trauma as a result. Enjoyment isn't even in the equation... yet the child's trauma is complex, obtained throughout their childhood and youth until they could get the hell out of the home... and if you asked them, they would say that parent was a psychopath or such, which is factually inaccurate. The parent had PTSD.

I can keep coming up with these all day... counters for the argument fore. When such counters can be established for a person to have the same outcome, then it means that type of abuser is not unique for the outcome. It may seem that way to you, but it's not, which is why getting back to the title of this thread... therapists don't entertain such aspects because they have zero foundation, factual basis. Trauma is unique to each person, and underlying personality disorders or other disorders of an abuser, simply underline that the abuser was suffering a mental health condition also.

So if you have done things because of PTSD, aren't proud of things because of PTSD, then now reverse that to another with a mental disorder. Everyone isn't in control as you the abused may think they are, not with mental health presence, thus negating such comments as psychopaths liking it. Again, a psychopath liking it is a minuscule statistical number within all psychopaths, if you research psychology statistics from experts who treat such mental health disorders. The problem is they struggle with emotion identification, they do things to try and feel something... just like those who cut to feel something. A negative behaviour to try and obtain a positive feeling, but at a more severe level for psychopathy.

 

[Dana1010]

@Snowwhite, I mean it doesn't make no sense, but if you met this person...hehe, you'd know right away he's from a different planet. As far as "labeling things," I mean the whole process of understanding the world is labeling things, right? If the shoe fits. I also own that I was socially inept and somewhat naive at the time, and I should have had better radar about con artists in my midst. I was just mystified by this person; the air around him buzzed, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I wanted to unravel the mystery.

I just feel like the psychopath thing has provided a huge piece of my puzzle. It has helped me understand things that were inexplicable to me my whole life. Why is it such a problem for my therapist to validate that?

 

[anthony]

You need to read Without Conscience by Robert Hare.

He is a criminal psychologist, so his view is only from those doing bad things which come across his specific niche. Again... you need to branch out to psychopathy itself, not a niche to fit your argument. Read works on the disorder fully, not just those who do something criminal which Hare writes upon and you regurgitate as though broadly accurate to psychopathy.

What if someone quotes an author who only focuses on the bad shit those with PTSD do? Would you cite that as broadly accurate for PTSD the disorder? Because there are lots of people in jail for doing bad shit due to PTSD... lots!

Me personally, I think your therapist is a smart person to not validate what you're attempting to obtain.

 

[Dana1010]

Psychopaths are generally prone to belittle, humiliate, mistreat, mock and even attack physically (or kill, in extreme cases) people who normally would bring no benefits to him/her in any way, such as subordinates, physically frail or lower-ranking people, children, elderly people and even animals - especially the latter ones.

This is probably true but I actually would not expect to see it out in the open. Publicly, you're probably going to see a very charming, likable, glib individual who seems good with people.

 

[Lolly]

Again... you need to branch out to psychopathy itself, not a niche to fit your argument.

But we're not trying to have an argument. We know what is like to experience psychopathic behaviour first hand, which to me anyway, speaks more than any article. We are the minority, I know that. As you said, maybe most psychopaths aren't violent etc, causing people trauma. But the OP said:
"Do you think if your trauma was caused by a psychopath, that's a crucial piece of the puzzle and needs to be integrated in therapy?"

She's asking if YOU were traumatised by a psychopath. If they bought you nice things after abusing you, or said things to trick you into thinking that you were the one who wanted the abuse, etc... would you think that would be crucial to your recovery? For you to be able to work with your therapist, and have them explain and get it into your mind that you didn't want it, that this "charming" person to the public really was a horrible person. ETC. Because personally, I think its crucial for someone to understand all that. I think once someone has all that clear in their mind, they are on the road to recovery. And I hope that one day I will get to that point.

 

[Dana1010]

He is a criminal psychologist, so his view is only from those doing bad things which come across his specific niche.

He has written about Wall Street psychopaths as well. He draws from the entire body of knowledge on the disorder, not just prison populations. And lest we forget, everyone in prison was a regular citizen, friend, neighbor, coworker, etc. before they were caught.

One of the most destructive sociopaths I knew was a very successful entrepreneur by day, and sexual sadist, psychological abuser, pathological liar, and general mischief maker by night.

 

[desiderata310]

A trauma is a trauma is a trauma...

I was shoved in a closet and left for hours as a kid. When I was let out I was roughly handled and told to shut up and get in bed.
I was locked in a closet (among other things) as an adult by my (then) husband. When I was let out, I was petted and hugged and he was sweet and kind to me while he told me that if I had just done what he told me that wouldn't have happened. He stayed kind like that till I did something to piss him off again. He enjoyed it when I cried. I pissed my dad off when I cried.
*shrug*
At least I knew what to expect from my father. I never knew what I was going to get with my ex.
In that way it is different. I don't let people touch me anymore because of my ex.
*Shrug* blame it on him being a sociopath or blame it on my reaction to his type of abuse. The end result is pretty much the same.
At this point, who the f*ck cares? It's semantics.

 

[risingsun]

I just have a comment on sociopaths in general here. I have known sociopaths personally in my life and their superficial charm and how they can tangle you into their web. Their pathological lying and lack of empathy is so disturbing. When I was in therapy and talked about them, the therapist (a licensed psychologist) didn't grasp the nature of these people. They aren't as easy to spot as TV makes them out to be. They blend in but they need and thrive on risky situations or anything that serves them. Their grandiosity and impulsiveness and incapacity for remorse is so disturbing. I had a situation, and this was a friend, in which a sociopath derailed my life for almost a year, added to my PTSD, and was a contributing factor in an emotional collapse that landed me in the hospital.

I think that they prey on the vulnerable and I, at that time, was vulnerable and this person severely abused me. I found out later that this person had done this to many others before me. Long story, but yes I have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with a sociopath.

Sorry you have as well. Rising

 

[anthony]

But we're not trying to have an argument.

An argument is also what is defined as a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

 

[ghotiff]

If they bought you nice things after abusing you, or said things to trick you into thinking that you were the one who wanted the abuse, etc... would you think that would be crucial to your recovery? For you to be able to work with your therapist, and have them explain and get it into your mind that you didn't want it, that this "charming" person to the public really was a horrible person

This sounds like a child molester. Maybe the OP could gain more self understanding by looking at it from this type of perspective where the power balance is all off.

I think the therapist can't validate that someone they have never met (and thus have not diagnosed) as having a mental condition.

 

[desiderata310]

An argument is also what is defined as a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

:D
The word argument has been given such negative connotations . We are not fighting, however.

 

[Dana1010]

I think the therapist can't validate that someone they have never met (and thus have not diagnosed) as having a mental condition.

Right, but she seemed amused that I chose to describe him as a sociopath as though we were talking about a trifling distinction like brown eyes vs. blue eyes.

@desiderata310, I agree that healing trauma requires you to go within yourself and stop worrying about what, when, why, where, all the things that transpired, etc. But for the cognitive element of therapy, where you do verbally explore what happened, veracity is important. If someone attacks us, we tend to project and think, "Well, if I were to do that to someone, they would have to really deserve it," so we start asking what we did wrong. If someone was a psychopath, it helps you to stop projecting, and it gives you a piece of the puzzle and hopefully a little closure.