This Too

[Gs172003]

Link Removed

 

[joeylittle]

What are your thoughts on the piece?

 

[Holdingontohope]

"The desire to be identified as a victim creates a sense of entitlement and a motive to devalue anyone who does not offer special recognition and validation of victim status or compensation for it."

Seriously?! It was hard to continue reading this article after just the first paragraph, which included the above statement. I read the whole article though and while it has some possibly valid points in it, there are just way too many flaws in it for me to give merit to any of its contents. Where are the studies that support this information? Where is the research that has proven these assumptions? Oh yeah, that's why the author didn't reference any studies or research, because there is none to support his views!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I dont know about the psyhcology of it all but they do call today's generation the generation of entitlement, so thats what he is talking about when talking about the "age of entitlement". Today's 20 somethings-ish.

Ive never heard of "victim identity movement" (and you know Im going to research) but I can see it so I'll reply before researching.

Its referencing non-victims that feel they are victims do to self help books. Self help books have been around forever so think about it this way. We have threads here about trigger warnings becoming a fad, people claiming to have PTSD because of ridiculous stuff...we have people that because they were raised in a generation where they feel they are entitled, they feel that any unjustice or anything that makes them upset, that makes them a victim. Not sure if used the right words there but that seems to be what this is pointing out. How to figure out whom is an abuser and a victim (and a non-victim) inside of what sounds like a DV situation inside of the age of entitlement where everyone feels they are victims even though abuse never happened to them because of, he says, self help books.

Im not saying its right or wrong though.

 

[Holdingontohope]

Its referencing non-victims that feel they are victims do to self help books.

Thanks for explaining that, lostforgottensoul. It makes a little more sense looking at it in that way. Still not sure what I think about it though. I know how much it hurt having my experience of abuse discounted, so I don't feel comfortable discounting someone elses experience whether I view it as abusive or not. It just seems to similar to the line of thinking that my father had that allowed the sexual abuse I experienced to continue for so long. (IE: It wasn't abuse because it wasn't always always physically painful. You weren't crying or screaming so he must not have done anything wrong. Etc.) Maybe I am just to sensative to this topic right now to offer an objective view of the article.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It just seems to similar to the line of thinking that my father had that allowed the sexual abuse I experienced to continue for so long. (IE: It wasn't abuse because it wasn't always always physically painful. You weren't crying or screaming so he must not have done anything wrong. Etc.) Maybe I am just to sensative to this topic right now to offer an objective view of the article.

I understand how you can view it in that manner. But then you see some of the ridiculous things people think caused them to have PTSD (being cheated on, 3 way sex consenual just to name two off the top of my head) and the tread about trigger warnings becoming a fad: Trigger Warnings Becoming A Fad? and you soon realize that the "non-victims" are people that had some upset happen but there wasnt abuse or trauma and are now thinking they are victims. Or in this article feel they are vicitims simply because of self help books and had no trauma at all happen, but truely believe they are victims.

It is much more different then saying two people both with a trauma and one is a non-victim because they didnt cry or whatever. Its not saying that. I can understand how it seems that way but the key thing is they are speaking of the Age Of Entitlement.

Dr Phil did an episode with young adults that was generation entitlement (which is how i know about it) and the guest were indeed, entitled. So i guess if you throw in self help books it makes it hard to desern victims from those that think they are victims but had no trauma happen. You know?

 

[Deleted member 541]

I liked the article. I think in the first paragraph it does explain SOME people's relation to trauma. Some that are traumatized DO take on the victim mode and they play it out for what it's worth, and yes they get pissed off and act out at those that don't agree with them.

I also do believe that some victims, for whatever reason, try to "reason" away the fact that they are being abused. They shrug it off, they don't think it's that bad, blah blah blah. I have a friend that has done this for 30 yrs.

The abusers.... Hell we all know that abusers never take responsibility for their actions and are always trying to place the blame with the victim, therefore the abusers always try to look like the victim.

Finally, I agree that with all the self help books out there that when people read them they "see" themselves in the symptoms, and then next thing you know, they self have diagnosed themselves. Just my take on it....

 

[Justmehere]

I was the victim of a crime as a child and adult. It's a description of me in the context of that trauma happening.

Being a victim is not who I am. It's not part of my identity as a person.

It's like if I'm am pulled over for a traffic stop. In that moment, I'm a suspect. But who I am as a person is not a suspect.

I think some trauma survivors do actually take on the victim role too much and that it keeps them stuck.

I also know what it's like to be invalidated and such peri-traumatic invalidation is also very harmful and keeps people stuck.

 

[Gs172003]

What are your thoughts on the piece?

I wasn't sure. To me it was about the victim turning around and becoming abusive to the abuser or some such nonsense.

He's also very very general.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

To me it was about the victim turning around and becoming abusive to the abuser or some such nonsense.

I dont think he was point this out, thats just my opinion, but I will say that that happens. The abused abuse. It happens a lot. Cycles in families. Etc.

 

[Gs172003]

I dont think he was point this out, thats just my opinion, but I will say that that happens....

You're right I went back and I had misread a paragraph.

 

[Justmehere]

The author writes:

"Abuse victims, like anyone in relationships with high emotional reactivity, build Link Removed, which include preemptive strikes - if you expect to be criticized, stonewalled, or demeaned, you may well do it first. Victims can easily develop a reactive narcissism that makes seem like abusers."

I think this happens for some people. The cycle of abuse is real.

What happens much more often is that victims internalize the messages of the abuser and think, "I'm terrible" and "I'm bad" and "I deserved this." Many survivors of domestic violence think (and write on the forums here) "if only I had not provoked him.

Frankly, this can reach an almost narcassistic level of self obsession and even self focused delusion when the victim thinks "I was responsible for another's behavior." We are simply not that powerful as to force another to abuse us.

The reality is that is really wasn't all under the victims control and war all about them being bad or terrible or broken or provocative.

But so many survivors of trauma still get stuck in those internalized abuser messages, and kind of self focused thinking is much more prevalent self absorbed way of thinking.

He also writes:

"But emotional reactivity between intimate partners, although more frequent in the Age of Entitlement, is a small part of the story. A more potent variable in blurring the line between victim and abuser is the reactivity of a social movement."

I think he is trying to talk about people who call everything bad as trauma, and as something that traumatized them. There is a huge movement in the US about mircoagressions and trigger warnings - especially on college campuses - and studies are beginning to show that this is leading to people becoming much more emotionally reactive and not more emotionally stable.

I have been classified as a minority who has technically been subjected to what some would call mircoagressions. I have been also the victim (I guess) of discrimination to the degree a major organization was fined for what they did (and I didn't seek for them to be fined.)

I wouldn't call either experience traumatic because it was uncomfortable and wrong and impacted me negatively but it didn't threaten my ability to live and not die.

I see his point when it comes to minor crummy life events and the way people react to mild social injustices by trying to seek to control and silence others. Others who were affected by the same discrimination have demanded more than making the problem right, and have sought to control the offender above what the laws even require.

That being said, I think this author takes his position in this article it way too far and does miss what actually happens for most trauma survivors who have survived life and death types of trauma. A few abuse others. Most do not. A few do become perpetrating narcissists. Most fall more into another type of self focused stuckness. We believe it was all our fault when it was never all under our power and control. We were victims.