Relationship Toxicity, Manipulation, Narcissism... Let's Have A Chat.

[dulcia]

Another relevant quote from the link @Zoogal posted
refers to the use of "malignant self-regard" in lieu of diagnosable NPD.

 

[boodle]

"Over years of research, Huprich and colleagues have developed a concept that may be related to narc...

@tiredtexan your SO sounds borderline to me with what you described. Try this eyeopening site, Top 100 Traits & Behaviors I hope it helps you as much as it did for me.

 

[heyheyhey]

I don't know if he's put it in my head, @heyheyhey. But I think over the years I'...

I absolutely promise you this is not PTSD. These are classic abuser tactics - 'crazy making', 'gas lighting.' It's abuser 101, they do it to control you; they want to bully and undermine you so that you basically do what you want. You doing what they want can come in many forms - maybe they want to you to agree with them, maybe they want you to bow down to their intelligence, maybe they want you to be the good little wifey, maybe they want you to stay with them (so break down your confidence through insults). Abusers don't do this because they have a disorder, they do it because they think they have a right to treat another human being like that and to control and bully them so that you will do what they want. It's absolutely nothing to do with PTSD, PTSD doesn't cause someone to do that, anymore than it would cause them to sexually assault someone (in the bluntest terms), abuse comes from a distorted belief system rather than a mental disorder. I promise you, as has already been said in this thread, there are good people and bad people with all kinds of mental illness but cruelty is always a choice.

 

[heyheyhey]

Thank you so much for the info. I guess I don't really know for sure how much co-dependence plays in...

You're so welcome, I've been there and it sucks so I feel for what you are going through. Honestly, trying to work them out never does anything to your advantage - the best way to spend your time is trying to work out how to break away and it's so hard to do, people who have never been there have no idea how incredibly hard it is to get yourself out. Basically one of the ways an abuser maintains power over you is by presenting themselves as a puzzle - they want to be a puzzle you can't quite figure out, because it weakens your position and as you spend time trying to work them out and 'crack the code', you're not actually taking note of you, what you want and need and how you can disentangle yourself from the head games and the mess - you are the important one - not him. Also seeing him as a puzzle means you'll always have hope - oh but he's just disorder, he's so kind sometimes - you know? But the thing is he's just a bellend honestly, as we say in the UK. Only around 1-2% of abusers change according to Lundy Bancroft - I pretty much think he is saying there's nill chance but doesn't want to completely write change off... In his book he talks about how he had abusers who had made massive changes go and give speeches to others - as a result they were worse abusers than ever after they gave their speeches. Lundy puts that down to the entitlement of abusers - that's the main thing with them - they think they are special and entitled to bully and abuse others - that's the main thing to understand about him, though he says it doesn't actually come from a mental disorder.... Getting out is all about focusing on you, not him.

 

[boodle]

I absolutely promise you this is not PTSD. These are classic abuser tactics - 'crazy making', 'gas li...

@tiredtexan I cannot express strongly enough how much I agree with @heyheyhey, please listen to her for your health and sanity's sake.

I have only just begun to realise something really bad was going on this since splitting with my abusive SO. I spent hours, days, weeks, months, trying to work out why the diagnosis of CPTSD didn't cover all of her behaviours. Why was I being abused? Lied to, bullied, blamed, belittled? Why was she blatantly making up things that didn't happen? Why did she twist things, making me out to be a monster, a fraud and a fake? Why did she take my deepest insecurities, sharpen them and use them to attack? I started to question my sanity. Since leaving the relationship and realising that those behaviours were not just CPTSD, that there was an additional problem of some decription, everything began to make sense. I am not sure if some kind of disorder had not been diagnosed or if a diagnosis had been hidden from me, but there was something very wrong - and it was not CPTSD.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I think what confuses supporters the most is that these behaviors can be pretty typical in a lashing out stress reaction. Not all sufferers lash out when stressed, but it happens.

 

[Snowflakes]

@tiredtexan the last 2 posts from @heyheyhey and @boodle are spot on. You have the benefit of the Internet and can use that for information and social connection. My sufferer didn't have this resource so she got out of an abusive relationship that, from listening to her, sounds remarkebly similar to yours by family members going in and removing her by force for her safety. To this day she is still trying to regain herself from this abuse. This, along with other issues prior to the abuse, is why she sufferers from CPTSD and GAD.

I don't care what label he, you, or anyone else puts on the supposed reason for his abuse of you, it's still abuse and wrong.

You say you know what to do but don't want to do it. That scares me. I truly hope I'm wrong and if I am, please tell me but I think your SO is winning the war for control of your mind and person.

Today, I see my sufferer try to regain what her abuser stole from her. What keeps me trying is that I know in my heart it is her abuser reaching out from the past and touching me through her.

I hope you will follow your instinct and do what you know you need to do to be your own person. Love is sharing, never control.

 

[dulcia]

^^^ what @Sweetpea76 said. I've seen similar stories from other supporters hat match the example in my previous comment about his escalating pattern. Not saying it excuses abuse, just saying.

I was in an abusive relationship prior that lasted for years and culminated in a very serious drug addiction that was hidden from me for a bit. Although that relationship didn't have the same mind f*cks that this one has, and it ended in a poor mental health decision on my part.

Luckily, I am not in the same mental state I was then and I have begun seeing a psych before it has gotten to that "I need help right this minute or else" stage like last time. But yes, @Snowflakes, I would say he is winning the war at the moment.

 

[grimalkin]

I think what confuses supporters the most is that these behaviors can be pretty typical in a lashing out stress reaction. Not all sufferers lash out when stressed, but it happens.

Yes. My sufferer lashes out when stressed, and his behavior is what I consider abusive at times. I didn't consider him to be abusive. I guess for me, the intent has to be there, conscious or not. The only times I HAVE considered it abuse is when he tries to justify his abusive behavior, instead of owning it and trying to fix it. But, I still don't consider him an "abuser." I don't see him as someone who WANTS to control me, and isn't necessarily trying to control ME. He is someone who, because of trauma, feels he needs to be in control, and that can come out in ways that are considered abusive; he is trying to control himself, his past, and his reaction to the chemical hijacking that his own trauma has brought on.

He's shifted from "I want to be a better person so I will attempt to control my rage and lashing out," to "I tried and it wasn't good enough, so screw it." I, and our marriage counselor, tried to explain that by not dealing with the trauma from his childhood abuse, his abusers create a cycle, and he perpetuates it. I think I even used the example of his abusers are reaching through him and touching me.

All he hears is "I'm an abuser," (as an identity) rather than "My behavior is abusive, but I can change it, and I need to keep working at it" (as a behavior he has control over). And he hears the negative, because he is nearly at bottom right now. He doesn't want to try to fight what he sees as his "true" self - the "Loner Asshole," because he has fought it for so long, and without professional help, it just keeps coming back, while at the same time, it's the "Loner Asshole" that saved his life. So he's shifted from "this is a behavior I can fix," to "this is who I am."

So, even now, at the end of our marriage, I don't consider him to be an abuser - I see him as someone who was abused, who has shown abusive behavior, and who tries to break the cycle, even if he isn't always successful. But what I experienced is still abuse, because it still affected me, and I was still on the receiving end. AND it only became "abuse" when he no longer was willing to figure it out.

And, just like I can't control HIS behavior, only my reaction to his behavior, I'm saying enough. He's pushing me away for multiple reasons, and now, I am controlling my own reaction, and letting him, because I have taken enough, when he's not willing to figure out his shit.

If that makes any sense. :bag:

 

[Snowflakes]

@grimalkin Well said. This is precisely why I will stand by my sufferer who "abuses" me when she has an episode. Your post made my day. Thank you.

 

[boodle]

So, even now, at the end of our marriage, I don't consider him to be an abuser - I see him as someone who was abused, who has shown abusive behavior, and who tries to break the cycle, even if he isn't always successful. But what I experienced is still abuse, because it still affected me, and I was still on the receiving end. AND it only became "abuse" when he no longer was willing to figure it out.

It makes perfect sense @grimalkin I too always seperated my ex's actions from the real her. I always told her I loved her, the condition was not the real her. However she was not prepared to figure it out or go into therapy. She was only prepared for avoidance with alcohol and cannabis, so I had to go.

 

[dulcia]

Exactly, @grimalkin! That's why I was always so hesitant to agree that my situation is abusive and this entire thread just muddied everything for me even more. However, I am accepting of the term "abusive" after the second one sided physical altercation. But that's a whole other story. With that being said, I did NOT consider the escalation example I mentioned before to be an abusive situation. To me, it seems to be a textbook amygdala hijack lashingn out response in someone with diagnosed combat PTSD and TBI.