Training a service dog

[Symphony]

I trained my own service dog, an adult from a rescue. They're trained to help with my physical disabilities but the DPT task can be used for PTSD symptoms if I wish to use it for that. My dog also has one behavioral alert task. I'm happy to answer any directly messaged questions but I'm stretched too thin to participate in a full forum on it. I'm here for me and my recovery, not for service dog issues.

To be honest, the service dog realm is such a controversial one that I don't think it's entirely appropriate to have a dedicated forum here. There are legal issues; with laws varying in every country, province, and state; and ethics issues including training methods, safety of certain tasks, dog behavior problems, and veterinary concerns. Also, people can get nasty over this stuff. There is a ton of bullying between disagreeing parties and... It's just sad.

The best resources I've utilized to learn the laws inside and out and to learn how to train my dog are from following certain trainers on Instagram and also within very focused (and strict) Facebook groups. I'm not familiar with the rules here on these boards so, unless admin give me the go ahead to share those group names, I'm not going to publicize what they're called.

 

[Symphony]

I went with the highest rated one on amazon that was in the $20 - $30 range. Also 1 - 100 levels

A level ONE hurts on my neck and underside of my arm but not on top of my arm so I thought I would try on him and he jumped across the room and yelp. Nope, that's it. No more.

I've made the same mistake.

Biggest mistake I made was trusting consumer reviews on Amazon and not professional trainer reviews. These people on Amazon buying the cheap electronic collars think they've cured their dog's behavioral problem and give it 5 stars. All they've done is taught their dog to fear pain.

I have purchased both a "$20" system and a $200 system (yes, I cried at how expensive it was but it was worth it in the end). The difference is night and day- I've tried it on myself. The professional systems, like the Educator line, use a blunt stimulation that is not a shock and you can't feel it at all until it gets up to level 7. That's enough to feel like a gentle tap of a feather against your skin. My dog does not perceive it as painful. They perceive it as tactile communication. Inside my dog works on an 8, outside around 17 because of distractions. When significantly distracted it'll be in the 20 range. That's on the expensive system.

In contrast, with the cheap system, my dog CRIED on level 15. Those systems are so bad and should be banned. The Mini Educator you had mentioned would have been worth your money and will be if you choose to invest in it.

I whole heartedly agree with clicker training being the first and most ideal option- especially for new handlers. The E-collar for us has given my dog off leash freedom to get the exercise I otherwise would be unable to give to them and also a silent communication tool for the times when I can't give verbal commands or hand signals. It should not be implemented without consulting a professional who can teach you how to safely use it.

Rule of thumb: if you're too scared to try it on yourself, don't try it with your dog.

-S-

I just don't want anymore misconceptions being circulated due to cheap inhumane shock collars. They should not set the standard of opinion because they are terrible devices. They're nothing like the $200 systems, which CAN be used humanely. Even the $100 systems are no better than the $30 ones. It's literally you get what you pay for, I'm sorry. :(

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Rule of thumb: if you're too scared to try it on yourself, don't try it with your dog.

Agreed totally! It is why I tried it on my neck first, not my arm.

Those systems are so bad and should be banned. The Mini Educator you had mentioned would have been worth your money and will be if you choose to invest in it.

I figured as much. I am actually very happy you replied whom had used both as all I could go on before that was trainers on youtube. I just need something to stop his massive focus he has on everything outside. He fully tunes me out and I cannot seem to ease into outside with the clicker or even wait him out to mark looking at me was right and he doesn't take treats outside so honestly the clicker is useless outside.

I tried out on the porch late last night and he has wonderful focus on me, until something grabs his attention and then I don't exsit to him. I know he can do this. I just need something to say "hey, look at me please".

I understand your reluctence of talking about it. The two communities (clicker only and those that use e collars) are at their each other's throats and the one owner trained service dog handler made a video all about how he listens without an e collar now and his body language shows he isn't scared.

Personally, I don't judge anything unless I've tried it and I do not think these trainers are abusive as their dog's behavuior and body language shows they are happy dogs. I have seen a few I call abusive but they aren't the e collar trainers.

Anyway, thank you for your reply! I will likely invest in the mini educator. It will be well worth the money, I know.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

The Mini Educator you had mentioned would have been worth your money and will be if you choose to invest in it.

I went ahead and took the plunge and bought it. $162.00. It will be here Tuesday which is enough time to work with him out of that fear that the cheap one caused.

I understand how to use it, the lowest level a dog can feel, and have him come, sensation off, sit, sensation off. So you are teaching the dog that following your commands makes the sensation stop. I just needed a much lower sensation then the cheap on gave.

Obviously I will still be using the clicker and clicker only on new stuff. But he knows "focus" and he also knows I want his eyes on me. We spent millons of hours just on this. So I am hoping this will help.

I will NOT be shocking my dog into submission. The point is this is a very slight tiny sensation like a tens unit and if worked on the lowest he can feel, that isn't a shock.

Thank you @Symphony very much for your help to make that purchase. I wouldn't have done it otherwise. I am sad $30 is now down the drain but happy to have someone give me real information of both types of products.

I will update with his progress with it.

 

[Symphony]

he doesn't take treats outside so honestly the clicker is useless outside.

I tried out on the porch late last night and he has wonderful focus on me, until something grabs his attention and then I don't exsit to him.

This is one of the reasons I got that cheap system in the first place. I needed to teach my dog an outdoor recall for safety reasons and eventually had to turn to that solution as a last resort. It was just so critically important that I decided going to that length was worth it. The prey drive was too strong and I was of little value to my dog at that time. We taught indoors that the tone meant "come get an awesome treat!" (real meat) and practiced outdoors on a long leash. We used vibrate when they didn't listen to the tone and usually that got their attention enough to hear the tone the second time, and they came running for some yummy meat. When in full on prey drive, the tone was obviously ignored and the vibrate didn't get their attention either. This is when the shock was used at a low level and increased until they noticed it. The second I saw them notice it, I'd hit the tone and usually they'd come running for some meat. Eventually I added "come" as a verbal command. (Background: we had already been working on using their name as a cue to "check in" visually and used clicker training for that) I trained as if the long lead wasn't there (even though it was) (it was an extremely long line), as if it were a "real" scenario and my dog was loose and I needed to verbally recall them for safety.

Further into training theory, I learned to anticipate her attention and distraction issues. The trick is to not even let them get to that point where they are so over threshold that they can neither hear you nor take a treat. This applies to clicker training, ecollar training, all of it. It takes a lot of time to learn your dog that way. Also, it's important not to make it too difficult for them with distractions. Working outside is very difficult. Incrementally work your way outdoors from working inside (make sure they're solid indoors first) and use short sessions with GOOD treats- real meat... real cheese... I've even gone as far to use raw meat (I freeze it first because... gross to touch...).

Okay... I could go on forever about this stuff! This is why I said I wasn't gonna even start here, haha.

 

[Symphony]

I went ahead and took the plunge and bought it...
Thank you @Symphony very much for your help to make that purchase. I wouldn't have done it otherwise. I am sad $30 is now down the drain but happy to have someone give me real information of both types of products.

Don't view it as $30 down the drain. You didn't know, it could have been $100 down the drain (I swear, those only $100 systems are reported to work identical to the cheapest systems). And, I'm not sure if you really threw it out or not, it can still be used as a tone/vibrate collar if you want to use it for that purpose with another dog. Just set the electric portion to 0 as a safety measure.

We used the cheap one as a trash can deterrent for one of our dogs who is unable to wear an electronic collar due to a past owner's misuse. (Background: we would tell that dog "no" but it made ALL of the dogs think they were in trouble. It affected my service dog to the point where we had to make a blanket rule to not scold the dogs at all unless it was for a very serious emergency reason.) We hung the "cheap" collar by a 3M Command Hook behind the trash can. We used the tone as a warning and vibrate as a deterrent. It worked. Unfortunately that collar system died only 6 months in due to moisture exposure so... goes to show you just how cheap it really is.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

We hung the "cheap" collar by a 3M Command Hook behind the trash can. We used the tone as a warning and vibrate as a deterrent.

That's brillant. Though my dog, I think, would try to figure out what the noise was but brillant.

No, I actually didn't throw it out. I put it all back in the box and shoved it in my closet. I only have 1 dog though. I do have 2 cats so who knows lol.

And yes, it could have been worse. There are some "cheap ones" that are way more expensive.

 

[Symphony]

No, I actually didn't throw it out. I put it all back in the box and shoved it in my closet.

The tones are going to sound different between the "cheap" receiver and the Educator collar receiver. If you have any task need that requires a non-verbal cue, you could utilize the "cheap" one for that. Both receivers can fit on the same collar. You can also remove the prongs on the "cheap" one to prevent any possibility of accidentally shocking the dog. You'd be carrying two remotes but, hey, it's something to think about. Service dog training is all about being creative with the dog's abilities and the handler's needs.

I like that the Educator version I bought is fully waterproof (check your manual, first!). If I'm very symptomatic, I can shower with the transmitter on a lanyard on my neck and use the tone button to call my dog for help (usually I'm unable to shout during this kind of emergency). I could also make a family member hold the collar in their pocket and summon them for help with vibration cues. So many possibilities with this technology :)

 

[lostforgottensoul]

So many possibilities with this technology

Indeed! The letter is from a therapist for PTSD however, I have many physical challenges too. So if trained to know what a tone means, I can totally see that helping.

Service dog training is all about being creative with the dog's abilities and the handler's needs.

Indeed. I am only a few weeks in and have had to become creative. He is trained for 2 tasks for now and that is where creativeness comes in, in my experience.

I am glad it has some options. I bought the waterproof yellow round one. I see you can get a belt thing. I should have bought that with it as I am sure I will need it.

 

[Symphony]

Indeed! The letter is from a therapist for PTSD however, I have many physical challenges too...

I splurged and bought myself the magnetic clip from the manufacturer on Cyber Monday! Happy Holidays to meeeeee.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Wow @Symphony! What a difference! I spent all day researching about conditioning to the e collar and I wanted to start inside, and did, but made my way slowly outside.

His working level seems rather high. Most people felt it way higher then their dogs but maybe its because they are doing it on their palms and I am doing it on my neck, but I felt a tiny tingle at around a 3. His working level seems to be at about an 8 inside and between an 8 and a 10, mostly a 10, outside. I made sure 3 times that he couldn't feel a level 7. I lowered it a few times outside as it seemed to make him just a tiny bit worried but then had to go right back up.

It came with a lanyard, which is awesome. Don't know if it's normal for the two halves of the receiver to feel a tad loose?

Most of the conditioning videos are all recall. But I want it more for focus. He did outstanding focus inside with the toy distractions, way, WAY better and much, MUCH longer so I opened the door and each time he looked away i'd do one hit of the button, maybe a few, and his eyes were back on me. Same thing outside on the screened in porch. Most of the time he was glued eye contact. And the entire time I am using the clicker too, to mark it as I seem to waver from "yes" to "good boy". Habit I think but "good boy' and "good" seems to be charged anyway.

I took him out without his head collar (and can see how much that head collar is helping) and with the recall he seemed to be doing circles around me so not to me. Someone had a video on conditioning (garner) and how to stop circling if it happened but I was looking at him listening to the leash preasure, and HE DID! He was looking more at me and noticing more when I turned around. I will work more on that and the circling. I did bend down a few times but that's killer on the pain each time.

Came in and did sit, down, stand and that was also a thousand percent better.

And not only do I have another tool to help but his is tail up and wagging and being his happy goofy self the entire time. Which is GREAT. He isn't being hurt or scared.

And just to be sure he got the focus, I just said focus and wam, his head came up to meet my eyes. This tool helps A TON! Thank you again!

ETA: I don't like when I try to lock in a level how easy it is to move as it takes 3 or 4 times to lock the right number. But eh, I can deal.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Would anyone know a tip or trick of how to train a dog to not whine around people and dogs? It's a "I want to be petted/attention, and I want to play" whine. Not a fear/worry/anxious/in pain whine.

Maybe what I am doing along with more exposure may work but I am just worried about it. I use the e-collar and sometimes he looks away and stops and sometimes he doesn't. It depends on the distraction. And the times he doesn't look away he has me tuned out (which the e-collar helps with) but he still fully tunes me out at times like if a person or dog is near.

I want to take him to Walgreens tomorrow and thought to maybe do a sit/stay and/or a down/stay outside and try just sit there with him for a long time. Like an hour or more and keep telling him to "leave it" (his command to ignore the distraction) for the people going in and out and see if with time he can start to tune out the people and tune back into me. I do plan to use the e-collar and I also plan to go back to the tennis court tonight for one more "leave it" and down/stay training session (and exercise).

I was just wondering if there is anything else that I can do to help him learn to ignore people? He was a very isloated dog as I was super isolated so he was too. So that is probably why this is so hard but is outside of walgreens too much? I took him to my therapist's office last Fri and he whined the entire time in the waiting room. I think he was also nervous as he did a nervous pant. But the whining on walks is a "please pet me" sort of whining.

Anyway, if anyone has any more ideas I would be fully open to them!