Transference, Counter-transference And What The Heck Are All These Feelings For Anyway?

[Ariadne]

I've been in therapy and counseling for almost 30 years, so obviously I've met some therapists that were awesome and others that were....not so much.

It is only in the last few years that the magical mystery unicorn ride called transference ever happened to me and boy did that suck! Well, not the actual transference part- the fact that just when I had gotten attached thinking we were going to start on the EMDR and healing my pre-verbal trauma issues, I made a stupid mistake and she dropped me as a patient, over the phone. After three years of working together. I'll get back to that in a sec...

Now, I've been doing a lot of reading about the subject and I realized something this morning that I think might be helpful. (and yes I currently have an awesome therapist but we only meet monthly, so I do a lot on my own) I was thinking about a time when counter-transference was an issue and how I had felt about that. The situation was that I sensed fairly early that the intern I was working with was interested in me. That in itself wasn't an issue, but once after I had told her I hate to be touched, she hugged me as I was leaving. That was not a problem; most people forget that I hate to be touched and if I let it bother me every time someone expressed their affection spontaneously I'd be miserable all the time, so I had let it go without dwelling on it. But she didn't. She was profusely apologetic at our next session, but what I got out of that was not so much that she actually was sorry for forgetting which I quickly shrugged off as "no biggie", she had been thinking about that hug for the two weeks in between.

Later when I was telling her about a nightmare I'd had about finding a starving naked infant in a pile of dirty laundry and on a filthy mattress and how I felt it was myself and I was claiming that part of myself and I was so close to actually crying (very rare then) and she blurted out, "I want to hold you!"
I clammed up. Nope.

Then she wanted to talk about counter-transference. There was something about the way she said it, her attitude, her smile...I don't know, but I got the distinct impression that this was not about improving the therapeutic rapport between us and more to do with her finding having that conversation with me in session to be titillating. So I shut that down. I said I didn't want to hear about it, we only had a few more months to work together and if she needed to transfer me to just do it but otherwise to just do her job.

At the end of her internship she asked me out on a date and admitted that during our last session that she'd been thinking about having sex with me. (yes I told my next therapist-who was one of the awesome ones- about it)

So, this morning I was thinking about why I had felt so resentful about her bringing that up and I realized that I react with fairly (as in- unusually for me) intense anger and resentment when or if I feel like a therapist is trying to get me to take the role of therapist for them. This actually has happened a lot as I am educated in psychology and do present as thoughtful, empathic and accepting. But as an incest survivor, I grew up basically parenting my parents and I guess I have this need to feel like I can trust my therapist to stay "on top" and even if I try to wrest the power from them, I need to be safe before I can let them interact directly with the drug-addicted abandoned sexually abused infant that lives deep inside my brain, hardwired into the thalamus.

So, back to my transference...I never felt in session that I could tell her how I felt. Partly that was because years ago I made an agreement with my inner child when I was doing that work. If she chose someone as a surrogate nurturer then adult feelings were hands off because in the past my adult needs would conflict with hers and she felt re-abused when I had not recognized that she was seeking nurturing.

Well, when that T abandoned us, my inner child basically disappeared. I didn't notice at first, I only noticed that after 40 years of being unable to watch violence in TV or movies or even to hear it described: I developed a very sudden interest in horror films! O.o

Later I realized that many of my more childlike traits were just gone. Recently something happened that suggests that my inner child is actually returning, but right now it's just the infant.

Here's my problem/question thingy:
After the abrupt termination I tried unsuccessfully to get closure from that T resulting in some pretty ugly consequences. However, last time my inner child had been present, she had chosen this woman as surrogate and she hasn't exactly gotten the memo about it. So I get these sudden overwhelming needs to know that this woman, my former T with whom I cannot have any contact, is OK. How do I reassure this part of my brain. Do I try to cut her off like an addict? Or seek reassurance like the abandoned baby she is? Or do I just try to find ways to comfort her that have nothing to do with my former T?

 

[UnicornSightings]

I've been in therapy and counseling for almost 30 years, so obviously I've met some therapists that wer...

Write her a letter. Your inner child. Explain everything. Explain that you tried to get closure but it's a no-go. Tell her it will all be ok. You are there for her. You will not leave her. That it's ok to hurt but in time it won't be so bad. Reassure her all the time.

Also I've found just writing out my assumptions about the therapist and what's actually more true.

Example:

My therapist hates me and wants nothing to do with me.
What's more true? My therapist can't handle this current issue with me because of her own limitations. It has nothing to do with me.

Stuff like that. Write out all those thoughts that hurt so much. You can run them through the Byron Katie steps. (Is this true? Do I know for sure this is true? How do I feel when I think this? Who would I be without this thought?)

You can also try to see it from the witness perspective. I am feeling this because I am having this thought. Now this thought. Get some distance from it a bit.

Get out of the obsession by putting good thoughts in your head when you're in that painful place. If you have none, listen to podcasts or read something positive.

Be around other people. Focus on them. Often. Often. Often. Often. That helps. And help others. That gets you out of your own stuff. The transference stuff will keep circling and the goal isn't to avoid it or feed it. Just notice it and continue on with your life.

 

[Ariadne]

Thank you, UnicornSightings,
I thought I had responded but I guess I didn't. I've read your response a few times and I'm still absorbing it. I found that I can use music from my early childhood to kind of access the pre-verbal parts and when I did, I got an interesting almost animation showing me kind of what's happened from the inner child's perspectives.

I will try the writing out thoughts and examining them for beliefs. It's hard because the situation got so painful.

When I was working with this T, apparently she tended to over-disclose as I ended up knowing way too much about her personally. She had also made boundary issues pretty unclear for me because of a combination of my having just moved across country when I started working with her (experiencing culture shock, not knowing what the expectations were) and then her doing things like inviting me to events locally that she said she was going to or to play online games involving irl interaction, and at one point when I had moved she ended up basically describing where she lived. I knew right where she meant because it's a small town and coincidentally my family had gone trick-or-treating there the previous year. At that point I was regularly bringing in little tumbled stones for a zen rock garden she had; they were meant to be for her other clients but she started keeping them. Then, when she told me she liked a certain dessert, I had my roommate take her a piece, which had made her very happy.

After that though, she suddenly started kind of pulling back, but not always. I felt very close with her, so I told her about the past situation where the intern had asked me out. I mentioned that I had confronted the intern with that in the state we were in that we'd have to have had no contact for at least two years before something like that. (meaning her asking me out) I had not meant to suggest that I ever would have been open to a relationship with that intern: I wasn't. But my T at that time, when I said that interrupted me saying, "here it's forever." I was confused then because it felt almost like an accusation? I wasn't sure what that had to do with someone from my past that I haven't had contact with in years. It left me wondering.

Then, I had missed an appointment, which was rare at that point but it had followed her having to cancel on me. She said she basically thought I didn't show up as a kind of retaliation. It's true I was bummed that my appointment had been cancelled same day, but what had happened the next one was I had got up planning to go, had a bath, started getting ready and got sick. I spent the next several hours being sick until I finally crawled back into bed. (not a huge shock, after homeschooling my kids their whole lives, my teen decided to go to public school for the first time, since I usually don't get out much, I was sick more that year than any other!)

Well, in the spring my whole family got sick. Like pneumonia, bronchitis, ear infections, the works. Unfortunately at the same time we were changing our internet-tv-phone package and had to have our phone disconnected for 30 days. I missed a few sessions then. I felt terrible about it!
So, when the family was finally getting better, I wanted to do something nice for my T to make it up to her. I remembered the dessert she had liked and that she'd said it had to sit in the office fridge all day and then she had to share it with all her kids so she didn't get much. So I had made some for my family so I decided I'd make some for hers too, and since I had a ride friday and she didn't work fridays, I figured I'd just take it over. Based on how things had been, I didn't think that would be "bad". I included a note explaining and apologizing for my absence and knocked, but no answer, so I left it near the door.

The next appointment I sat in the waiting room the whole hour but she only came out at the end for the group she had. She claimed that no one had gotten me checked in properly. She called the following day and said she had to transfer me because "it's policy to when a patients finds out where a therapist lives." I protested that she was the one who told me and she got mad and said she agreed with the policy. I later found out there is no such policy.

I was devastated and ashamed. I didn't accept her referral because I was afraid she'd tell the person something that would make them start off with a bad impression of me. I couldn't say her name or see her face (my teen also has therapy there with someone else) for 7 months. Finally I started with a new guy there. In our first session he was shocked there was no closure and said there's no policy like that and even if there was he couldn't see why that wasn't something that could have been cleared up in session with a simple, "sorry but I can't have patients coming around even if we talked about the neighborhood." So, I asked for a closure session. At this point I was grieving. I cried a lot. I dreamt of her and started missing her.

No closure came. I wasn't sure if I trusted the new guy. So I wrote her a new note and left it for her at the office. The first was in Jan, the second in March. I saw her in June at an event and to my shock, she hugged me. (normally she's not a physical person at all!) We chatted amiably so I thought things were cool. I asked about the note in March and she seemed really confused, said she didn't get it, asked when I'd sent it, said she'd ask at the desk, etc. Two days later I was sexually assaulted. At first I couldn't talk to my new T because he was an old guy and I couldn't face it. But I had gone to my physician as I'd been having a strange symptom. My doc said it was likely psychosomatic. I called and asked that she call me as I had a question I wanted her professional opinion on. No response. At that point I thought maybe someone in the office was being weird? I dunno...

I emailed her very polite, asking if I could email her there and that I wanted to know if I could talk with her. I went in to see her and again she seemed super happy to see me, I asked about the call and email, again she said she hadn't got anything, asked what email I'd used (I'd gotten it from a site where she's listed as an expert) she said, "oh, sorry, that's an old email" then she asked if I played Pokemon Go. Because she'd been outside catching Pokemon...

So I was honestly confused at this point. So, I left another note, this time at her house. Well, then I finally was able to talk to my then T about the assault after asking my question to an online friend who happens to be a psychologist. Question was answered, symptom went away. My T though stopped me from telling him about the assault because he needed to talk to me about my former T. That she can't have any further contact with me. He said she had gotten all my messages but was lying to my face the whole time! But he said he was talking to her and she wanted me to keep seeing him, etc.

I didn't know who to trust then. I had found her on Pinterest looking for PTSD stuff and found that and a whole lot of really personal and private stuff. (she was going through a very messy divorce)
At that point I switched agencies for counseling because I felt like I couldn't heal with her across the hall or the potential to use my T to get/receive messages to/from her! She refused to release my records not only to me, but to my new counselor. I messaged her privately in frustration about her unprofessional behavior and social media posts. (one was a meme saying: "If there was a section on my performance review at work for dealing with psychos, I'd get an exceeds expectations") She managed to inadvertently put me in touch with her estranged husband's new girlfriend who told me she was following her around town and she felt threatened. I talked to the girl (because I'm stupid and I was trying to make sense of what had happened) and when the former T found out we were friends, she complained to her boss that I was harassing her. (in truth any message I sent on FB she had to accept and open to see and she could have blocked me but didn't and I was asking her to keep her private life set to friends-locked) My access to 4 habit forming medications was threatened. (ambien, klonipin, ritalin and zoloft) I tried to wean myself off and had 7 days of insomnia at the end of which I (much to my shame) took 32 ambien and 27 klonipin. I went to bed thinking I'd go to sleep and die. As can happen with ambien though, I got up in my sleep and messaged the former T. I told her I was taking my life. I was hospitalized then. I was off meds all through November and half of december. The former T never reported my suicide attempt. Instead I was dismissed from the agency and she got a no contact order against me.

In court I only asked that I be allowed to go to her agency as my teen is still a client there. I've gone to a new agency and have a great doc and new T who I'll be seeing friday.

I've been told many times that I should report this T for unethical conduct, but in truth, I really still just want closure and healing! I don't feel like I can do anything that could hurt her because I never resolved the attachment stuff.

I am so sorry this became a novel, I guess there's a lot on my mind!

 

[UnicornSightings]

Thank you, UnicornSightings,
I thought I had responded but I guess I didn't. I've read your response a...

Wow. You have been through a LOT! My heart goes out to you. I wish I could take some of the pain away.

From solely the perspective of someone who has read what you wrote and knows nothing else it sounds like it would be damaging to try to get closure from her. Closure I don't believe is necessary with a person. Like it's ideal if you can get it in a healthy way but man, that does not sound healthy. Major boundary violations by her!!! Can you see someone new about this? Someone who doesn't know her? Possibly someone online if you live in a small town? If not, there's so much we can do for healing that doesn't involve therapy. I wonder if you could do some kind of letting go ceremony. Something you plan out. You maybe write down everything this therapist meant to you, what you got out of it, and why it's best for you to let it go. Cry. Mourn the loss. Really feel it. Burn what you wrote. Let it go. And when it comes back, those feelings of missing her, of confusion, of complete heartbreak, you let her go again. It'll come in waves. Each time getting a little less intense. But you are incredibly strong and you deserve the chance to move on from this.

Sending you so much love.

 

[Ariadne]

thank you.

I actually have been planning a ritual of releasing for some time now and just fyi, when I say I want closure now, I no longer mean the session kind I was seeking last year, I'm actually talking about finding a peace with what happened.

I was thinking this morning about how I started therapy on my own at 18 and thought I'd pop out 6 months later a Normal Person (TM)

ROFLMAO

Yeah....uh....24 years later...

But man was I pissed when I learned that healing had many options, but "normal" (as in, as if the trauma had never happened) was just not one of them! I did actually write a letter of the Not-To-Be-Sent type and I'm going to take it to my current T, who is really great. It's seriously like 8 pages! But some of it, I actually let my child self speak for herself, which is new. (and even if I speak of my child self in 3rd person, we are not separate, it's just a different perspective/mood)

My best friend/roommate read the letter last night; he came in all teary. There were things I'd never even told him and some that was just hard to hear from my child self.

 

[Biopsych_gal]

I really wish there was a support group on Facebook for this phenomanon. As transference and Counter Transference is quite common. More research and more training on the subject is vastly needed. You can Google it and learn quite alot about the topic. However, this knowledge doesn't seem to make it any easier for the one experiencing transference. A really good therapist would be able to deal with these issues in an appropriate manner. Not a lot of therapist are very skilled at it. And, even if the mental health professional is equipped to deal with transference/counter transference issues it doesn't always end well. It's like being in love and breaking up...no matter how well it ends, the end is painful.

I am currently experiencing extreme "Erotic Transference". Even with a pretty terrific therapist who keeps the critical boundaries intact and is very skilled at dealing with the transference in a productive and sensitive manner, I still find it quite painful. I am deeply sad that our time ever together is coming to an end (I have reached the maximum number of sessions, a fact that was made disclosed to me at the begaining). I will try to move on with another professional but know that my current one will always have a very special place in my heart. I find it quite confusing that I both want to love my therapist (and for him to love me back) and yet also don't want to love my therapist (or have him reciprocate). Intellilectually, I know that it is part of the mechicanism of transference but my heart doesn't.

I don't really have any advice for you. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone.

 

[Ariadne]

I really wish there was a support group on Facebook for this phenomanon. As transference and Counter Transference...

Yeah, I have found some good articles online and I did have a great session with my new T. And we did talk about kind of my regret about how it could have been handled. I generally try to avoid "should-ing myself down" or indulging "if only's" but as I am planning a releasing ritual today, it was helpful to kind of just express my feelings in a not judging, just observing way.

I know that the former T can sound pretty bad from what I said and I do know that's the "my side of the story" thing, I also want to put out there that I know that my behavior that earned me the no contact order was inappropriate. Yes, I was off my meds and coping with a recent sexual assault and my long-time ESA cat died suddenly, but even when it's understandable, that doesn't make it OK.

I have actually asked my new T to not try to find out who she is ,past T's (the position lately has been more "cursed" than DADA at Hogwarts!, but it's a military town, so...) have said they'd report her if they knew her name. But I really need to trust my new T and I feel really good about her. She's very analytical and grounded which I feel like I need right now. But she's also really open-minded and has a great sense of curiosity, so I can also relate. It was hard and scary to turn that letter over to her (former T's name was not on it!) but it is very revealing, even of things I've never been able to discuss before in therapy because talking in front of people is hard for me, so I can fall into the trap of coping with anxiety by going "performance mode" (I have an asynchronous talent for public speaking, so when anxious sometimes I act as if I'm giving a speech, which is unhelpful in therapy). So, while it's scary and I feel super exposed, I feel like it's a productive kind of thing, like I'm not going to waste time this time getting comfortable, I'm here to heal, learn, and grow.

So, my T and I talked about how transference can become a way to create a kind of new positive model for finding a caring, accepting presence attractive, especially for those of us who have been drawn into abusive relationships and how when handled appropriately, discussing counter-transference can help break down things like feeling pressured to keep positive attention by impressing a T, when we can sense they like us and naturally like feeling liked.

One thing I find that's hard is feeling like the former T hates me (because of her not reporting my suicide attempt and knowing that for at least 6 hours before my roommate found me, she alone could have saved me and chose not to.). But I think really in some ways even thinking that is a bit egotistical. Like I still want her to care enough TO hate me? And ultimately I need to let her go.

It is hard because feelings are never rational and letting go has to be as much the "letting" as the "going", it's not making go, right? And that's hard.

Thank you both for responding and helping me feel more welcome here!