News U.s. Healthcare System

[anthony]

No statistics ever are accurate... but when measured against each other at the same level, they then become accurate for comparison.

Rates are typically much higher than published, as there are, as you stated, many who will not participate in federal funding aspects to be captured, yet fit the statistic.

From memory, reading some data that captured more around what you are saying, the US unemployment is above 10%, UK higher, Australia higher, EU, etc...

 

[angel2write]

I think it's rather a sweeping statement to say that the religious right funds all the food kitchens, homeless shelters, etc,etc, across the country.

That's a straw man fallacy argument, there, Anni. I didn't say the religious right funded ALL the food kitchens, etc. Of course they don't. And there are a lot of religious people who consider themselves politically liberal.

What I said was that the relgious right are consistently vilified by liberal speechifiers as "not caring about poor people," and that their determination to fund things like food kitchens, etc. out of their own pockets would seem to be a pursuasive argument against that statement.

Also, if you look at any city's charity rosters and count the number of charity organizations funded by religious of any kind and the number of charity organizations funded by non-religious organizations, I think it becomes blindingly obvious that church people care more than the population at large, and a good percentage of those church people are politically conservative.

Conservatives care about poor people, too. That is the sum and total of my point.

 

[angel2write]

OK, let me modify something I just said.

I think it becomes blindingly obvious that church people care more than the population at large

Caring is an indefinable thing. The population at large may care just as much, but religious people (of all pursuasions) are much more likely to found and donate money to charity organizations.

 

[njray]

Angel......... I am not sure i agree with you or not...... I would like to think we all are charitable at some level...... There might be more teachings in the venues of religious organizations to tythe that again i think is true but there are now locals that (I am going to be carefull in saying this) are making it mandatory that students perform X number of hours of community service to graduate from high school to try to teach social responsibility..... Just like Israel makes it mandatory that both males and females must join and serve in the military for X number of years. Why do we not do the same as does not branches of the military service(national guard) not provide great help in such disasters as hurricanes and tornadoes..Could u imagine... If the politicians daughters had to go fight in Afghanistan or Iraq I wonder what meaningful diplomacy through dialog would take place then before his or hers daughter or son had to fight there own parents battles...... (hmm just a thought)

I try to not be sinicle but to be honest seeing it from the inside like i did from admins down and hereing how many speak and really feel off the record would blow u away....

There is not one problem or issue with healthcare there are many.......... I get really pissed off at myself when i say hey a Doc or Nurse deserves to be able charge what ever they want..... Do you really understand what support us as USA taxpayers we afford them....... If you look at the special sections in the tax laws for health care professionals you would honestly be shocked..... They are given many tools by us all as taxpayers that affords them to be as good as they are before college during college and after college.

Now that does not mean they do not hold special skills. Absolutely they do but if the Govt put more real effort into creating the proper higher education venues needed to mass produce Docs we could supress some of the healthcare shortages..They are doing it in the nursing field by creating awesome vocational schools (not all R yet mind u) that have taken the nursing field and created special techs for almost every specialty..... Hence more techs, more competition more competitive employees lower costs. BTW these techs can make some good salaries BTW and many are great techs......... for only being in school 1 year.......

Oh the docs are getting great tools through technology that are affording them to be better surgeons with less risk as well..... Robotics in surgery is small now but wait till us see what is coming around the corner....... fascinating stuff......

But let me ask you this if i was a doctor or nurse making big bucks and belonged to and support the lobyists who the heck do you think the politicians are going to back. Money and greed in my opinion are going to be the devil of the USA healthcare system. We are creating a definitive 2 class citizen country, look back in history what happens when that comes to fruition why do you think we used to have three classes. Time and time again when that happens turmoil erupts as the have not's just cannot afford to pay for the haves incessant needs ...... just imagine what would happen if what happened in Egypt happened here in the US or what is happening in Yemen....... The truth is we are becoming full of few have persons and many have not persons. the balance of the poor paying for the riches needs is getting out of whack... God forbid something is to happen of great tragedy in the US and more persons than already are skeptical become critics as to how the us health care system is managed There could be major consequences for us all to pay. It needs to be fixed from the top down...... If we chose to ignore it it will cost us more much more down the road..........

Do i want the best doc cutting me open as possible? absolutely....... but i am a realist at what cost does this make sense. I think again do i like lawyers being able to sue? Yes! again if you new the amount of alleged* cover ups in mistakes docs and nurses make.......Do you think the whole system of health care would be as good as it is if not for attorny's being able to sue for malpractice...Do you want me to tell you of the parties I went to where I saw Docs drinking excessively (Allegedly) then leaving the party and going to surgery!!!! U have no idea...... My friend is a Lawyer his wife a MD best line they both use against each other is they graduated in classes with over 600 persons in each of there schools in there fields of degree. The top in the class is afforded the same designate of MD or Esq as the bottom of the graduating class that does not mean I want just any of them to be performing my heart surgery or defending me in a murder trial. We have become brainwashed that MD ESQ PE PD FD automatically puts them notches above others and excludes these people from being human it should not....

 

[catjudo]

I can't even find numbers on what percent of our population is on Social Security (old age pension)

Actually, Social Security is for both senior citizens and people with disabilities.

Looks like the percent of people on Medicare (old age & disability) is about 14%, and none of them are happy with their coverage.

That is a false generalization. I have Medicare and I am happy with it. I know others who are also happy with their Medicare coverage. Is it perfect? No. But I am no less pleased with it than I was with private insurance when that was still an option for me. And I definitely prefer Medicare over being uninsured.

I didn't say the religious right funded ALL the food kitchens, etc. Of course they don't.

Maybe that's not exactly what you said or what you meant but it is certainly what it sounded like you were saying.

They accuse us "religious right" people of not caring about poor people. But do you know who funds the food banks, homeless shelters, domestic violence shelters, adoption and pregnancy care centers, free medical clinics, and clothing closets across the US? The freaking religious right!!!

 

[anni]

You kinda did say that..., just thought it was rather a sweeping statement, that's all.

There probably are not a ton of teen pregnancy centers funded by others, but that's a whole 'nother argument pretty much waiting for a match to get dropped on the gasoline.

 

[intothelight]

I still am not sold on the US Government running anything, besides the military. (Not talking about foreign policy). Even their efforts there are a huge failure financially. Gross overspending on supplies, necessary spending, and shortfall on the budgets in areas that are critical.

One area that has a huge negative impact on healthcare is our society and our legislative system. If we don't like it "sue"! Malpractice insurance costs are a huge obstacle for physicians entertaining private practice. There is a shortage, because our society is killing small business. The only means of survival seem to be economies of scale that promote large corporations and monopolies. So physicians join hospitals and large medical conglomerates where the primary focus is not patient care, but the bottom line.

Insurance companies are another large monopoly. But then we are back to economies of scale. Allow small businesses to pool and actually be afforded group rates. It is sad when it is more cost effective for a business to have employees purchase individual policies, because the rates are less than a "group" rate.

There is also another interesting alternative that has not received much "press" coverage. There are county hospitals that have developed programs to allow the uninsured and underinsured to purchase medical coverage under a modified HMO. They offer full access to the physician groups, clinics, and hospitals on a sliding fee schedule. It has helped the public facilities to come out of the black and enabled people to have access to healthcare they can afford. There are other alternatives but the thought of the US Government controlling things at the Federal level is scary.

 

[angel2write]

Money and greed in my opinion are going to be the devil of the USA healthcare system. We are creating a definitive 2 class citizen country, look back in history what happens when that comes to fruition why do you think we used to have three classes.

I definitely agree with this... scary. Been reading articles about families who are sort of getting trapped in generational cycles of Welfare. The kids grow up & that's all they know & they end up back in the housing projects raising their kids there. It's sad, and I don't think ANYONE has come up with a good answer for it. I know they try in the public schools, but it's not working.

Maybe that's not exactly what you said or what you meant but it is certainly what it sounded like you were saying.

My apologies. I am still too vehement when I argue, because I never think anyone is going to listen to me. I had also, when I wrote this, just gotten done reading another thread on this site where someone was once again trashing all religious conservatives for being heartless bastards. And after a while, it begins to hurt. I was really responding to that, and probably overstated my point.

Insurance companies are another large monopoly. But then we are back to economies of scale. Allow small businesses to pool and actually be afforded group rates. It is sad when it is more cost effective for a business to have employees purchase individual policies, because the rates are less than a "group" rate.

I think this is a good idea & hope it will eventually be part of the program. Also, there are some Christian "shared expenses" systems out there that are currently disallowed under Obama's program that I hope will be received as an alternative to purchasing gov't insurance.

There is also another interesting alternative that has not received much "press" coverage. There are county hospitals that have developed programs to allow the uninsured and underinsured to purchase medical coverage under a modified HMO. They offer full access to the physician groups, clinics, and hospitals on a sliding fee schedule. It has helped the public facilities to come out of the black and enabled people to have access to healthcare they can afford. There are other alternatives but the thought of the US Government controlling things at the Federal level is scary.

I've never even heard of something like this. It's interesting.

 

[anthony]

One area that has a huge negative impact on healthcare is our society and our legislative system. If we don't like it "sue"! Malpractice insurance costs are a huge obstacle for physicians entertaining private practice.

I think that is probably the most largest issue the US has... its legal system allowing people to sue for amounts that are not justified. Sue for free medical for the rest of their life, absolutely they should be entitled to that... but punitive damages, etc etc... total nonsense. Things go wrong and people make mistakes, financial gain is capitalism, and it doesn't work.

You can't sue in Australia for any such amounts, no court here will entertain the idea. Some lady who got harassed by a CEO of David Jones here tried for 30 something million... had legitimate cause for compensation as she got fired and harassed, but she got a couple hundred grand, being her income lost, legal costs, etc... he lost his job. You should not be rewarded, you should only get what is entitled to you when having to sue. Rewarding is capitalism... which isn't sustainable, thus the US is the prime example of how it failed... laws must change, precedence must be wiped and start fresh in that one area... then healthcare can get back to being focused on its patients, instead of having to meet x $$$ to cover insurances and income, plus constantly second guessing themselves in case of being sued.

 

[becvan]

1) With all the perks and good money doctors and nurses make- why are there never enough of them? One of the frightening things in Canada was that when they really reduced payments & salaries to doctors & nurses, a lot fewer people chose the profession. They had a chronic, critical shortage of health-care professionals. I'm afraid that without all the priveledges and perks, the same situation would result in America.

Okay so you are arguing against the US proposed style of Healthcare, and you are using Canada as your example as why this is bad when the two are not even the same?

We (as in Canada) have a doctor shortage right now for 2 reasons. 1. The government controls how many doctor and nursing spots are available to be trained each year. 2. American hospitials were "wooing" Canadian doctors and nurses at extreme rates.

As you can see, the two factors combined equals a doctor shortage. Now we can throw in the mass retirement and we have problems.

However, our health care woes are not Americas nor are they the proposed new health care system. Personally I'll take my health care with ALL ITS PROBLEMS any day of the week over Americas. So would any other Canadian I have ever spoke to.

Bash Canada all you want, they are not the same systems, don't have the same problems and Americas proposed solutions doesn't even come close to what Canada has.

bec

 

[BREAULT]

This is such an interesting thread. I'm new here to this forum and I suffer from PTSD as well as LUPUS. As a Canadian I thank my lucky stars having access to available Health Care. I cannot imagine where I would be today if not for our current system.

As other's here stated it's not perfect but we do have some of the best world reknowned teaching hospitals. As for the Doctor shortage yes there is, mostly in remote areas where no one wants to work. And yes some of our truly gifted new & old Doctors are poached down to the States with $$$ offers. But one point missed on that is our Universities are heavily subsidized by the Government and our students pretty much get a cut rate in med school in comparison to what US universities charge. University of Toronto $18,000.00 for a first year med student compared to UCLA first year $40,000.00 not including room and board. Those are the numbers and I consider both US & Canadian health care to be one of the best in the world.

The difference between the two systems is that I would more than likely would have lost my house for the amount of care I've received over the years. It's not as if someone with my condition would ever be able to afford private health care insurance and the HMO's would consider me a risk. We pay in Canada for health care via our taxes and that's OK by me, it's when you bring profit into the equation that humane and "do no harm" goes out the window.

 

[angel2write]

One of my frustrations with our current system is the attitude towards genetic testing.

We recently found out that my mom has Huntington's- a genetic disorder that leads to loss of muscle control & usally death within 15-20 years of onset. Onset is generally in the 30's to 40's. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd like to know if I have it (50% chance of transmission to each child). My sis had the genetic marker test. I'm afraid to have the test because if it's positive and the insurance companies find out... well. As long as we didn't change companies, I'd be covered. But if we ever had to change, they could deny me coverage for a pre-exsisting condition, I think. I talked to some doctors in Bear's family & they said they think this is true. I havent' talked to a lawyer. So I'm scared to have the test done. It could not only affect me, but also my children. If they have a mom with a positive test, they might not be able to get insurance.