Vulnerability

[Tinyflame]

Oh yes, I do agree. I didn't personally mean it's 'different', and definitely not a competition. What I meant is, I think of my dog (I realize she's a dog :) :inlove: ), she was abused and shut down. She didn't 'seek' anything different (and would have not defended herself) because she had not had other (positive or safe/ loving) experiences. I don't think it ever occurred to her such a thing existed.

I heard a comment like that, "If you want to be a knight act like a knight!" Hee. :)

 

[The Albatross]

If you want a generally satisfying life, you'll endeavor to do or cultivate in yourself what it takes to attempt it basically. Intellectualizing without action is fruitless. Intellectually I know smoking cigs is bad for me, yet I do it.

Instead of fighting for my right for accommodation, I fight for accommodating myself to live where I am planted - a human being among other human beings all trying to do the same thing. Trying to actualize a generally satisfying life. I put my effort/action where my mouth is basically. Mission Impossible HQ has a way to bust "uncomfortableness"... they advise in a rather humorous way for you to take a cold shower for 5 minutes every day for 30 days. It is a way to "normalize" uncomfortableness. One that I found pretty darned funny when I listened to my self talk. I actually still haven't been able to do all 30 days though I have been able to be more open to uncomfortable people/places/situations in my day to day life.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

Are red flags just really notice to set boundaries? If you have good boundaries then perhaps you can still let people and experiences in while being able to know what healthy boundaries are needed for yourself.

Wholehearted people don't need boundaries. That's what I'm looking for. Therefore I don't need boundaries. People show me who they truly are much faster. LOL It saves me from being surprised..later. :)

If I waited on only healthy people to have relationships with, I wouldn't have any friends. They all come with issues. It is my job to know MY boundaries and be able to let them know when they have crossed them OR back away before they are crossed. I don't have to partake in their unhealthy rituals but I still can enjoy them.

Yes we all come with issues. I have a particular dear friend. He's a charming mess...we are opposites in many ways. OK most ways. I don't judge. He is what he is. The good the bad and the ugly. His heart is good. So all is well. I don't judge anyone I allow them to be who they are. Most of my friends are just as detached as me. As in boo on relationships. We get along famously. While others are in healthy happy relationships. It's a great balance.

 

[The Albatross]

I'm really not sure what's up with you lately. You wrote the opening post and as the initial poster ought to know that wholehearted people DO have boundaries???

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/09/how-to-set-boundaries-brene-brown_n_4372968.html

 

[The Albatross]

As the caliber of the discussion has degenerated by the original poster to quips and weirdness. I officially bow out and am off the thread. So much for a discussion of any import.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

Also, people who have not been loved nor treated as 'worthy' have a harder time knowing what that means let alone trying to believe or personally apply it.

I understand what you're saying. However as a child the very reason I fought back was I instinctively knew what they were doing was wrong. I should add he wasn't a typical pedophile. He didn't groom me. He was violent.

I don't think BB is saying to avoid red flags. But again some of the decisions or circumstances I have been in were because I pushed through the discomfort (I shouldn't have).

The two BB quotes I quoted.. say to me anyway...she connects vulnerability to shame. She doesn't acknowledge red flags. It's as if she's saying all you have to do is believe and love yourself and the yellow brick road magically appears. LOL

I share whatever detail of my own life if I feel it may help them, at 'risk' to myself. However, that being said, as privileged as I am to be included in to their lives, they actually are not part of mine. That is, as @Survivor2Thriver said, though it's sometimes good anyone accompanying me might get a free tour of Hotel Hell as well. But I think being authentic means just that- no untruth, or lack of authenticity. You don't 'try' to be authentic, you just choose to be. Like my dad used to say, "if you don't lie you have nothing to remember". You always know the answer to the question- just speak the truth. Be your truth and share and live authentic to what you feel and believe.

Amen. My detached friends understand hotel hell and laugh it off with me. My naïve friends can't handle that much reality. So I don't share. :(

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

I'm really not sure what's up with you lately. You wrote the opening post and as the initial poster ought to know that wholehearted people DO have boundaries???

Only if you are into telling people what to do! Truly wholehearted people have their own boundaries. Healthy ones. Do you understand? I've made it clear I don't agree with BB. I've not responded to your earlier post because I'm respecting you stated it wasn't up for discussion.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

I will collect my thoughts and put together something after work this evening (short break right now between shifts) and try to post something sometime tomorrow. Also with the proviso that it is my own experience and is not open for critique. If it helps great, if not just disregard it please.

I am happy you found something that is working for you. The road to healing has many different paths. What works for one person doesn't for another. :)

 

[Philippa]

I think it's good to realize some people are safe to be vulnerable with, but some are not.

Yes, this is what I was trying to say earlier. Obviously it's not safe to be vulnerable with everyone. You need to discern who you can be vulnerable with and who you need to keep the armour up with.

 

[Philippa]

@Survivor2Thriver, I do feel shame, it is ingrained. I have to work on my vulnerability. These are ways in which abuse has effected me.

Yes, and she doesn't necessarily refer to shame in the context of trauma survivors and abuse only...in fact, that isn't her forte, and she doesn't really delve into it in that context during her TED talks. I'm surprised that some therapists use her as a model for trauma recovery? I've never had a therapist suggest I look at brene browns work whilst in therapy.

Shame is an epidemic in society. We are shamed in various ways for all kinds of things, whether it is showing emotions like anger, or other behaviour deemed unacceptable by the mob ruling. Shame affects us all regardless of whether we took it on in an abuse context or not. This is the kind of shame brene brown is referring to in her talks...not shame brought on by sexual abuse.

I was shamed as the scapegoat in my dysfunctional family unit, but there were other ways in which I was shamed by people outside of my family, totally non related to abuse. It's a hard thing to not take on because not everyone can be 100% conscious at all times and when it is imposed on us, and our confidence is low, we can easily take it on as being true.

I was shamed by a nun at school for showing my bellybutton to a boy at age 5! Does a child that young know what projection is? Of course not. We take things on that stay in our pain body for our entire lives, unless we confront these emotions at a later stage.

 

[Rumors]

@survivor said:
"Wholehearted people don't need boundaries. That's what I'm looking for. Therefore I don't need boundaries.

Truly wholehearted people have their own boundaries. Healthy ones. Do you understand?"

Uh, no I don't understand. All people need good boundaries. That has nothing to do with being wholehearted, that is just good self care. I am afraid the thread is completely over my head at this point, so I am out. I believe what I stated is a healthy way to approach vulnerability. You can take that on however you wish, but I urge you to listen with the intent to truly grow. I wish you all of the best figuring this out in your journey!

 

[Meadowsweet]

I'm not sure if others have had the same experience, or sense it, or I am way off base, but I think the differences (or resistance) people may feel in response to BB is ptsd-related, or past trauma or abuse related?

Yes, I find the way she speaks extremely uncomfortable.

I relate the way she speaks directly to the circumstances of the last time I was attacked. So it isn't for me. Something I learned from using her kind of philosophies directly after trauma, is that the person needs to learn how to recognise and take themselves out of the dangerous circumstances first. For me, facing my fear was to go to the website that the man who attacked me was on. When I tried to leave, his friend would tell me that I was running away, that I was letting the fear get to me, that I had to face it. He was a f*cking idiot, and wanted no more than to make it seem like the abuse never happened. One reason I found that acceptable is that I've been brought up to 'face my fears'.

So recovery for me has meant, and means accepting that some situations are dangerous. And to do that means finding the connection to my emotions and fears, and to work on integrating those feelings with trauma. That is a process, and the differentiation between a situation that requires fear to keep you safe, and the imagined fear of the mind has to be made in order to keep an individual safe. If a person hasn't done this work, then advice to let go of fear and do it anyway, is not appropriate for that person.

It takes risk, it takes action, it takes work, it takes commitment, it takes being willing to be uncomfortable. It even takes being willing to trigger, lapse, or cue up a cycle. But I find her ideas very practical and rational.
I don't get all buggered up about writing styles. I get annoyed at about 75% of the "tone" of the books I've read. But I'll tell you what I don't do. I don't let my opinion get in the way of finding a beneficial lesson.

Albatross, it's great that it helped you, I wouldn't take away from that. But in the quote above, it looks to me, like you imagine that people don't like Brown's advice because it's some hard hitting, self-facing truth that they don't like to hear. Or that somehow people not accepting Browns work, is comparative to people not accepting they have a drink problem.

That perhaps has been your experience, and maybe you did need to face up to a few things, and start trying to face your fears instead of running away from them into alcohol.

At the time that I realised that I needed to stop running and to face my fears, a man tried to kill me. So with my experience, it is more sensible to look at how my attitude to facing fear puts me in danger.

Can you see how Browns words are completely impractical to me? Perhaps if you had experienced my life, rather than yours, you might have a different view of Brown. My point is, that, if it works for you, great, but the soap box seems inappropriate because recovery needs to recognise the thinking styles and emotional f*cked up-ness that the individual needs to recover from.