Vulnerability

[The Albatross]

I really don't get you. You started this discussion yet you intentionally misrepresent her material for the sake of discussion. Oh yeah, I'm done.

 

[Meadowsweet]

How you go from her material to what you are discussing is beyond me.

This is a discussion. If you feel that people have made mistakes in their interpretation, then you can point out where and why you feel they might be misinterpreting. In turn, they might see a different angle, or they may continue to have a different view than you.

With posts like the one above, you are coming across as defensive. If you have a different opinion, offer it - it will do more good than stomping feet and saying you're done.

 

[Rumors]

Yes they do. That's what I'm trying to say. They should have their own. If I feel like I have to point mine out or show them theirs....what the hell good is that? Something is wrong with them.

Most people are not clairvoyant therefore cannot know innately what your boundaries are. What may be ok to some is not to others. Communication of what is not ok is just setting good boundaries for yourself so that you don't feel violated or wronged at a later time. If you find you can go through life without setting boundaries bc it is pointless, so be it. I haven't been so lucky. I like to communicate in an open manner an let people know when I feel like they have crossed a line or when I can't handle something. It saves hard feelings down the road and possibly salvages what might be a productive relationship otherwise.

 

[Hashi]

have any of you other than Philippa read her material at all?

Yes.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

Most people are not clairvoyant therefore cannot know innately what your boundaries are.

It's not about being clairvoyant. It's about being who they are. All I require they be is a basic decent human being. Words mean nothing to me. Actions do.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

My T suggested exploring BB. Namely vulnerability. Upon further investigation I found her work shallow and disappointing. The whole "us and normal people" vibe in this thread is disappointing as well. Trauma survivors are wholehearted. We feel we love and have self esteem and peace. That is precisely what we/I am protecting. Our peace. Her work suggest otherwise. Last night I googled for other viewpoints on trauma and shame. Sadly,they all suggest the same. Trauma survivors have a deep sense of shame. BB discusses what to do should you find yourself upset the drive through messed up your order. And feeling an absurd sense of shame by using the measuring stick of your bank account.

She has a platform to bring together the human factor. The true human spirit. The human spirit in its primal benevolent form. It doesn't take much to understand malevolence in the world. There is another side. What BB ignores is what happens to the human spirit while enduring horrific abuse. She has a long list of how she would feel. I don't find it insulting I find it naive and shallow and unproductive. Therapist everywhere believe you should feel anger. Really? Finding yourself held down against your will by being repeatedly raped forces you to surrender to your circumstances with the knowledge you are surrounded by idiots. Vile creatures who are projecting their hate onto you. Anger is worthless. Understanding is priceless.


At the end of the day you want peace. You want peace for everyone.

That's enough for now. I'm off to TJMaxx to buy another conservative dress I don't need. With my money I earned. LOL It gives me great peace to know they were unable to brainwash me into their "New dress for sex program! I smile everytime I buy myself a new dress!:joyful:

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

In fact, personally I don't relate to linking vulnerability with self esteem anyway. For me it's all about safety, and for me safety is not to do with fears of possible rejection, abandonment, aloneness or what others think of me. I have little concern about those things.

Exactly they are of little relevance. What is relevant is listening to our inner voice. We have a built in security system that alerts us to danger. I don't fight it ..I listen. BB wishes to take the very essence of our survival gift and tell us something is wrong with us. Whhhhat??? LOL

 

[Philippa]

I don't believe I've ever heard BB say anything that would discourage listening to our inner voice. She has never once come across to me as giving the message that there is something wrong with us. I have no idea where you got that from? I also don't think she ignores what happens to the human spirit when enduring horrific abuse...she simply doesn't go there. It isn't what she is covering in her speeches. She isn't an expert on abuse, as I stated before.

If therapist everywhere encourage anger in clients it is because anger is a natural, NORMAL human emotion. It, like every other emotion, has something to teach us, and it can restore a persons self-worth and give them a sense that they are important enough to fight for their boundaries if someone else tries to cross them. That is a useful thing.

Most clients with past abuse issues have a lot of stored up anger. It's good to get that shit out, or else it turns into depression.

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

If therapist everywhere encourage anger in clients it is because anger is a natural, NORMAL human emotion. It, like every other emotion, has something to teach us, and it can restore a persons self-worth and give them a sense that they are important enough to fight for their boundaries if someone else tries to cross them. That is a useful thing.

There it is again. So now anger restores self worth?

 

[Tinyflame]

I am wondering, if this is getting unclear to a certain degree because of different definitions?

I think it is absolutely fantastic @Survivor2Thriver that you put the onus of blame on the correct source. In fact, I think it's remarkable and amazing. :tup: I think others may mean (or at least I do) that you are entitled to feel everything- about it and everything else- anger, sorrow, loss, accomplishment as a woman of great dignity and strength. And you will feel, +/or grieve whatever is relevant to you at your own pace, in your own time and in your own way. IF you allow yourself to.

BB refers to the gut instinct; I just know in my case I have to work on what is accurate, versus what the past is trying to dictate (and the present too- the ptsd).

Do you mean people with good boundaries (respecting and caring for other's well-being and feelings and rights, etc) don't 'need' to enforce them? (Not exactly the word I want but oh well ). What I mean is, I agree- people like that have respectful-of-others boundaries, and respect themselves too, and it's a pleasure/ gift to be around them. But also, YOUR boundaries (as are theirs) are for your protection and comfort and joy- what you will not accept from others as well. Even the things that aren't hugely important on their own.

For example, I freak out if someone grabs the back of my neck. Similarly I hate hate hate strangers playing with my hair. I have to let them know that, if they try (even if they mean no harm). We get to know each other that way, learn to communicate better. It's a Win-Win (and necessary).

Sometimes we all have different definitions/ connotations of words and terms (think of 'God', 'assertiveness vs aggression', 'being vulnerable' etc).

Just a thought. :)

You don't have to give up anything you've achieved to add to it, and make it even better. :). :hug:

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

I have to let them know that, if they try (even if they mean no harm). We get to know each other that way, learn to communicate better. It's a Win-Win (and necessary).

:)

For example, I freak out if someone grabs the back of my neck. Similarly I hate hate hate strangers playing with my hair.).

~I completely understand. :(

Thank you Junebug! I was beginning to wonder if I was a minority within a minority! :(

that you put the onus of blame on the correct source. In fact, I think it's remarkable and amazing

I can't find the proper words to describe how I managed..other than to say the dysfunction was blatant enough for a 5yr old to understand. I was blamed for everything. Everything. I simply knew the difference.

Do you mean people with good boundaries (respecting and caring for other's well-being and feelings and rights, etc) don't 'need' to enforce them? (Not exactly the word I want but oh well ). What I mean is, I agree- people like that have respectful-of-others boundaries, and respect themselves too, and it's a pleasure/ gift to be around them. But also, YOUR boundaries (as are theirs) are for your protection and comfort and joy- what you will not accept from others as well. Even the things that aren't hugely important on their own.

Yes,I agree about the importance of sharing personal boundaries. A certain must! I only share that after they have passed the initial test to determine if they have good boundaries to begin with. I hope that made sense!

BB refers to the gut instinct; I just know in my case I have to work on what is accurate, versus what the past is trying to dictate (and the present too- the ptsd).

That's where I am at too. For a lack of a better word. I'm too strict.!?

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Survivor2Thriver that makes perfect sense to me. :) :tup: And yes I think I do or may understand exactly what you are saying as regards people who violate boundaries ('creeps'?, lol). By all means if they are that blatant follow what you know/is obvious. I think BB rather is referring to those who don't reveal that as such, who perhaps want to portray the opposite. Hence why she suggests following one's gut.

I think it's said that when we have had boundaries violated (especially as children) we can be either too rigid or too lax. That's ok, a happy medium can and will come, working on it. :)

I still say, at 5 years old it's incredible to survive it let alone not internalize it.

No, you are never alone @Survivor2Thriver . :hug: