Ways To Challenge That Ole Suicidal Ideation.

[ms spock]

So my new goal is to break down my suicidal ideation. I am 44 years old and I was thinking seriously about dying by suicide when I was 8 years old (and possibly younger) when I told my sisters and brothers that we didn't have to live like that - the abusive way my parents carried on and tortured each other and us with. I decided that I couldn't kill myself because I couldn't leave my siblings behind to deal with my parents.

So I figure that 2 years is a good goal term to set for breaking down the suicidal ideation. So I hope to be able to write Suicidal Ideation RIP 6.1.2016.

So for a lot of 36 years suicidal ideation as a security blanket. It was the way I learnt to manage my feelings in my family. SI was a way to stop feeling feelings as a child that would have sent me mad.

Some years I think I didn't think of it as much but it has been really bad this year. But when I went through all my writing and diaries I found so much stuff on SI all the way back through my life until shortly after I fled my home in order to stop my father killing us all and then himself.

So I am looking for ideas, strategies and distraction techniques for ending the SI in my life.

What type of disputing of the thoughts are you doing?

Have you written them out?

Can you read them out and look into the mirror at the same time?

If you are unable to dispute the thoughts then what self soothing and self care things are you doing afterwards to restore yourself?

I was admiring @Philippa in another thread at how she is grieving the emotions and intrusive thoughts of cutting off from her toxic family.

Much of my SI has been about the loss of my family and opportunities. I wonder how I am going to put into place to get those really hardwired and deep seated needs to get that family fix.? All suggestions are welcome.

Going to a cafe and ordering a cup of tea and chatting to a waitress briefly or other patrons - helps me get a feeling of connection. It is a simple one that I use very occasionally and I hope to do it more.

I would be grateful for any insight that people have in how they dealt with the suicidal ideation in terms of dealing with the feelings that the SI was masking. That would be most helpful.

Any type of self talk, jokes to yourself, soothing of yourself, writing to yourself, talking with crisis lines (SuicideCallBackService in Australia I have found very helpful. 1300 659 467 [DLMURL]http://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au/[/DLMURL]) Lifeline is a mixed bunch, some good some not so good. The Mental Health Team is mixed too - some helpful suggestions and knowledge and some stuff like distraction I have done too well to dissociation, derealisation and depersonalisation. Some of them aren't that knowledgeable about PTSD. The Nowra team seems much more approachable and practical than the Wollongong team (as I understand the set up.) They also don't return calls and are often very, very busy.

I think not living on my own and working would be too really good strategies. But I feel so insecure about my resume that I can't look at it at the moment.

I have to do things for myself but I am also allowed to have some support in terms of chosen friends and chosen family. But I have to be an adult as well. This is something I can work on learning this year. I missed out on some big developmental steps in my life and it is probably going to take a year or two to get on top of this SI stuff but if I keep working on it then I will get there.

This is better than dying of suicide. (because the suicide activist says people commit crimes and not suicide.) I will just have to be honest about the SI and keep working on it and what I am protecting myself from feelings that the SI covers up - old childhood coping mechanism. Really old. Not going there.

But SI has been a real coping mechanism for me for a long time so it will take time to break it down and change my behaviour in to substantial self care and self soothing challenges and substantial self care.

 

[bell]

What about starting a Gratitude Journal? And each day note 3 things (big things, small things) that you are grateful for? I find that doing exercises such as this make me *want* to be here. And reminds me why I want to live.

Also, have you ever thought about what your SI could really mean? (As in, maybe it really deep down has nothing to do with actual, literal SI?) I realized earlier this year that my SI isn't literally SI and that when I have SI it actually means that I'm feeling helpless and feel like I have no way out, thus, the SI.

So, for me, SI is a sign that I am feeling helpless about something in my life and, therefore, I need to uncover what situation that is in order to get better, not necessarily fight the SI itself.

Your experience may be completely different, but wanted to offer my revelation (as, for me, it was a total revelation!!!), in case it may be helpful in decoding why SI appears so frequently in your life.

 

[scout86]

I had kind of a strange experience regarding this. My T brought it up a few times. He told me that he thinks everything we do is, or was, at some level adaptive. I told him I couldn't see how "voices" in my head, relentlessly telling me I was worthless and would be better off dead could possibly be "adaptive". He corrected me and said that he hadn't said they were adaptive NOW, but that they had been, in some way, at some time. He pointed out that kids sometimes see things differently than adults, but that he was sure it started out as adaptive. He suggested that I ask the various "parts" of my brain who knew the answer and what it was.

I started doing that, at night, before I went to sleep. (My T also says you have to tell yourself to remember it in the AM, if you want to learn stuff like this from your dreams.) So, one night, I had a dream. There were lots of people, lots of scenes, lots of wandering around. Eventually, I encountered my parents and a baby. They weren't actually doing anything but holding her but I "knew" that they wanted to kill her and weren't doing a very good job of it. (By "a good job" I mean fast, efficient, and with a minimum of suffering. Yes, I know killing babies isn't a "good" thing.) Anyway, I took the baby from my dad and killed it. Then I gave it back to him. Then they proceeded to do a really inept job of hiding the body. I took it back and buried it and walked away. It kind of bothered me that I didn't feel any remorse. Then came the thought, "Nobody wanted her, she was better off dead." Seems to me I've heard that line somewhere before!

So, I think my T was right. At some level, at some time, that way of thinking was "adaptive", It isn't NOW. And, I'll admit, it's a pretty bizarre way of looking at things. But it also makes a certain kind of sense, doesn't it? Here's the most interesting thing. I haven't been bothered by those thoughts much since. Maybe that's a phase, It's always kind of come and gone. Maybe it will be back, But, I think I'll feel differently, because I have a different understanding of it.

I don't for a second think those kind of thoughts mean the same thing for everyone. I DO think my T is probably right. Everything starts out as "adaptive" and it's often useful to sort out the origins of this stuff.

 

[Lionheart]

SI ceased to be a threat to me when I came to the realization that I did not want to die, but rather, I just wanted the pain to stop. I had to allow myself to feel my pain in order to move through it (and the SI)...Still, I was a cutter and had to stop that activity as well.

My "t" told me that any positive activity that I could do besides cutting would be a good replacement habit and that is what cutting and SI were for me...habits ....albeit, ones formed to help me deal with overwhelming emotions.

So, I took up a hobby...(painting)...which allowed me to express my feelings in a non-harmful way. Could you do something like this to help you express those overwhelming feeling of betrayal, abandonment or whatever your particular abuse-related feelings are??? Maybe a creative hobby of some sort?

I wish I had a better idea of how to help you, but all I can do is tell you what worked for me.

I must say that I am impressed with your determination to heal your wounds and hope you find the thing that works for you, so that you will not consider harming yourself!

I think you are a wonderful person and spirit; you have been supportive of me and my healing journey, and I wish you nothing but the best!!!

Peace,
Lion

PS: I realize SI is a part of depression and I hope that it was not counter-productive of me to refer to it as a habit, this is just part of what SI was for me and I realize it is not so simple. Sorry if I have confused the issue.

 

[ms spock]

So I have to grieve I guess.

I have to get on top of emotions like feeling like if I hadn't run away from home when I was 15 to stop my father from killing us all and then himself at least it would be all over. And I wouldn't feel this pain and I wouldn't have lost my sisters and brothers.

I have to make piece with this. I have to get over it. I have to move on. But I am stuck.

 

[ms spock]

What about starting a Gratitude Journal? And each day note 3 things (big things, small things) that you are grateful for?

Great idea. I am doing this in the happiness challenge.

...have you ever thought about what your SI could really mean? (As in, maybe it really deep down has nothing to do with actual, literal SI?) I realized earlier this year that my SI isn't literally SI and that when I have SI it actually means that I'm feeling helpless and feel like I have no way out, thus, the SI. I need to uncover what situation that is in order to get better, not necessarily fight the SI itself.
...in case it may be helpful in decoding why SI appears so frequently in your life.

I do relate to that a lot. My SI is to protect me against big feelings I must feel I cannot manage. I am sure it does mask feelings of hopelessness and helplessness.

 

[franciemarnie]

Like @Lionheart777, I just wanted the pain to stop. I chose the dubious solution of taking painkillers (I'll only take one every Saturday night so I have something to look forward too! Ha!! Didn't quite stay at one a week.)

When I got off them, I went to a support group, which worked for me and I started having some quality of life. I still wanted to die sometimes but I knew it was unjust that I should feel that way, I hadn't done anything wrong, and that anger helped.

Finding a sense of wellbeing and doing things I enjoyed changed the SI. I had to make my life more appealing than the idea of dying.

For a paradigm change, the original pattern has to stop working so efficiently. For me, new information or input had to come in to make the old way not quite right anymore. I think it can take a while to change an ingrained pattern of behavior. It took me a while.

I definitely have nights when exhausted and burned out where I would give anything for a pain killer, just for "one night", a little death, but it doesn't work that way for me anymore and the moment passes.

I would vote for doing as much enjoyable stuff as you can in your life every day.

 

[The Albatross]

So I have to grieve I guess..... I have to make piece with this. I have to get over it. I have to move on. But I am stuck.

Half right. On the grieving, people can and do get "stuck" in grieving. A good "for instance": If you are still under the presumption that you need to grieve something that happened more than three years ago, ah... um... nope. No you don't. In grief and bereavement training I learned that "healthy grief and grieving is typically 3 years. So I'd say it clearly depends on what you think you're grieving.

In your case though just this past year you lost two (?) friends... they passed away. Yeah... (that's the half part), grieve them. But be advised that any SI on your part if you are "grieving" the loss of their friendship... is an old tape as this maladaptive mechanism has absolutely no bearing on healthy grieving.

I am glad that you acknowledge that you are stuck. So know that you know you are stuck, you can work in therapy to get unstuck and do independent study so that you can track down the skill sets you missed (I had plenty I missed too). The good news is you can teach old dogs new tricks. I know, because this old dog (me) is doing plenty of things that I couldn't do a couple of years ago.

I vote for making peace with this (I did what was necessary to survive and endure... I have outgrown this mechanism and I don't need it anymore)... getting over it and moving on.

It can happen. Trust me. ;)

 

[Marf]

My experiences have been different. It took a psychiatrist to help me understand that being obsessed with death is interpreted as SI, when in fact it can also be the fear of being killed. That helped me a lot! I was no longer scared of myself.

Now, my bad days are full of anger. Anger at God for letting me be conceived in the first place. I let myself feel the anger and journal about it because it has changed over the years. Then, I have to move on, easier said then done somedays.

 

[ms spock]

SI ceased to be a threat to me when I came to the realization that I did not want to die, but rather, I just wanted the pain to stop. I had to allow myself to feel my pain in order to move through it (and the SI)

I am not sure what is feeling the pain to get over it or in order to move through it. I have been so dissociated it all feels a bit much.

My "t" told me that any positive activity...that is what cutting and SI were for me...habits ....albeit, ones formed to help me deal with overwhelming emotions.

Habits are good to change. I am definitely needing to do that with my thinking and routines.

So, I took up a hobby...(painting)...which allowed me to express my feelings in a non-harmful way. Could you do something like this to help you express those overwhelming feeling of betrayal, abandonment or whatever your particular abuse-related feelings are??? Maybe a creative hobby of some sort?

I stopped doing that stuff this year. I just couldn't enjoy or feel anything that I do will every be good enough. But it is good reminder. I did put some drawings and paintings in a couple of exhibitions.

I wish I had a better idea of how to help you,

It does help Lionheart Thank you. All care and interaction are appreciated and telling me what worked for you is a very helpful and practical.

I must say that I am impressed with your determination to heal your wounds and hope you find the thing that works for you, so that you will not consider harming yourself!

I don't want to harm myself and I don't want to die. Like you, I just want the pain to stop.

I think you are a wonderful person and spirit; you have been supportive of me and my healing journey, and I wish you nothing but the best!!!

That is very kind.

I realize SI is a part of depression and I hope that it was not counter-productive of me to refer to it as a habit, this is just part of what SI was for me and I realize it is not so simple. Sorry if I have confused the issue.

Thanks for being so sensitive. It is hard to know how people will interpret stuff that is text based most thoughtful of you.

But habit is fine with me.

 

[ms spock]

On the grieving, people can and do get "stuck" in grieving. A good "for instance": If you are still under the presumption that you need to grieve something that happened more than three years ago, ah... um... nope. No you don't. In grief and bereavement training I learned that "healthy grief and grieving is typically 3 years. So I'd say it clearly depends on what you think you're grieving.

I feel that I am grieving my family - my siblings. I feel like have been in a deep freeze for the longest time and now I have come out and I feel about 15. Other things that happened years ago suddenly seem present and I am feeling like I have unfrozen to feel about them as well.

In your case though just this past year you lost two (?) friends... they passed away. But be advised that any SI on your part if you are "grieving" the loss of their friendship... is an old tape as this maladaptive mechanism has absolutely no bearing on healthy grieving.

I don't have SI about my friends. I do miss them being around from time to time.

I am glad that you acknowledge that you are stuck. So know that you know you are stuck, you can work in therapy to get unstuck

I am very stuck in a variety of ways. I am so stuck.

do independent study so that you can track down the skill sets you missed (I had plenty I missed too). The good news is you can teach old dogs new tricks. I know, because this old dog (me) is doing plenty of things that I couldn't do a couple of years ago.

I am not really sure how to do independent study so I can track down the skill sets I have missed. I am not sure what you mean by this.

I vote for making peace with this (I did what was necessary to survive and endure... I have outgrown this mechanism and I don't need it anymore)... getting over it and moving on.

It can happen. Trust me. ;)

I have seen you do stuff Alba.

 

[Barconian]

Ideation? interesting :)