Okay, so this one goes out to those whom had never had a safe relationship from relationship violence. I have been in a few relationships where my T has pointed out that every one of them were violent.My T now wants me to revaluate what I want in a relationship but I truly have no idea what a safe one is. I know this sounds silly but any ideas would be great.
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What Is A Safe Relationship?
- Post starter billie
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Love this thread. I was always wondering the same thing. I went from my abusive father to an abusive husband. And I was always told... "If you were abused as a child you'll pick abusive partners" . And of course men and relationships scare the hell out of me.
So no answers sorry. But can't wait to hear the responses.
So no answers sorry. But can't wait to hear the responses.
J_trustno1
Diamond Member
I believe relationships should be worked both ways. They must be coming from both partners who are understanding, willing to help each other, have respect for one another, understand each others boundaries. There should be no beatings, no hurt by toxic words or any sort of humiliation. I have grown up in a family of toxic people and toxic relationships, I have seen my father trying to kill my mother and also strangled me when I was 10! So that kind a stuff is a big NO NO!!! Then I have seen the pedophile (mum's bitch sisters husband) run away when mum's sister was 8 months pregnant and again this is NO exception!! If both parties decide to have a child then both share equal responsibility of bringing that child up! Also there shouldn't be gender inequality. The reason I am saying this is because I was treated like crap by my father because I was JUST a girl! He compared me to my brother all my life hence caused so much lack of self-esteem in me, he always berated and taunted me + my mother because we were women!! As a result I grew up as a feminist! There shouldn't be any gender inequality in a relationship, if the guy i meet in future makes fun of my past, me as a woman, has no respect for women, hits me or tries killing me, or jealous of my career or life success then I would just walk out of that relationship with my head high!
Apart from my opinions on this past life of mine, i would still say: You need an understanding, loving, respecting and accepting partner. There shouldn't be any name calling. You guys must have basic similar understanding of life because there is no point in trying to change someone because you CANNOT change someone. But if you both understand each other and see things in a similar prospective then it would be the best thing in life. I am not saying to dump someone just because you had a disagreement but if they don't understand your values or ethics or vice-versa then there is no point in such relationship. For example, you are more of an introvert and this person is in alcohol and parties + sleeping around then that relationship won't work. Btw this was the most obvious broad example. I hope you get what i mean.
Last but not least! You need to have boundaries too in a relationship and don't let someone break into your personal space leaving you feel miserable, because you have been through so much and you don't need anymore drama or horror in your life.
All the best in relationships darling @billie :hug:s
Apart from my opinions on this past life of mine, i would still say: You need an understanding, loving, respecting and accepting partner. There shouldn't be any name calling. You guys must have basic similar understanding of life because there is no point in trying to change someone because you CANNOT change someone. But if you both understand each other and see things in a similar prospective then it would be the best thing in life. I am not saying to dump someone just because you had a disagreement but if they don't understand your values or ethics or vice-versa then there is no point in such relationship. For example, you are more of an introvert and this person is in alcohol and parties + sleeping around then that relationship won't work. Btw this was the most obvious broad example. I hope you get what i mean.
Last but not least! You need to have boundaries too in a relationship and don't let someone break into your personal space leaving you feel miserable, because you have been through so much and you don't need anymore drama or horror in your life.
All the best in relationships darling @billie :hug:s
Before entering my current relationship I wanted to make sure I never got in a dangerous relationship again. The first thing I did was learn about all the red flags for a potential abuser. Learning the red flags helped me to also recognize their opposites.
I am finally in a safe relationship, and i think the key thing that made me realize he was safe to enter a relationship with was how he handled anger. Calm, together and in control of his emotions. He never yelled, but could verbalize how it made him feel. I have only ever seen him loose his temper twice, and never ever did he direct it at me or anyone else, it was always "I am upset because this happened, I don't like that this happened." Instead of "You did this, so I am pissed off."
Other signs of a safe relationship:
Red flags:
I am finally in a safe relationship, and i think the key thing that made me realize he was safe to enter a relationship with was how he handled anger. Calm, together and in control of his emotions. He never yelled, but could verbalize how it made him feel. I have only ever seen him loose his temper twice, and never ever did he direct it at me or anyone else, it was always "I am upset because this happened, I don't like that this happened." Instead of "You did this, so I am pissed off."
Other signs of a safe relationship:
- They don't put you down
- They make you feel safe
- They take responsibility for their actions
- The never tell you what to do or make demands
- They know how to handle their emotions
- They know how to express their needs or wants in a way that that doesn't make you feel pressured
Red flags:
- name calling
- blaming others
- reacting with anger over minor offenses
- constantly telling you how great they are, but you never see the behaviors they keep bringing up
- making you feel guilty
- putting down your family or friends
- behaves differently in public versus how he behaves when you are alone
spookedlife
Bronze Member
The human condition never ceases to amaze me. Mine, as well. How much I'd like to think that I'm "the master of my own ship"...that all of my choices are conscious and rational...rather than just another part of some repeating loop of self-fulfilling prophecies I continue to unconsciously feed out with my every reflexive, knee-jerk interpretation of life, in each moment.
It's said that the farthest distance is the 18 inches from the forehead to the heart. And I can vouch for that. I've known forever, now, that "we seek to recreate what is familiar to us, due it forming the reality we grew up in...because the familiar is safe". After all, if we grew up with abuse, we know how to live in that reality. It's simply part of our pattern of "normal". And we seek out what is "normal" for us. The "abnormal" is uncomfortable.
It would be more satisfying if it were more complicated and mysterious than that. No one likes to have their trials and hardships explained in simple terms, of course. Me included....But it's not.
Put simply: It may be soft and warm...but it's still sh*t.
..But does simply knowing that...the "intellectual awareness" of it...help?
Not at all. At least not for me. That doesn't "move it those 18 inches from the forehead to the heart".
What does? Becoming willing to tolerate what seems at first to be impossibly intolerable discomfort.
Maybe because of a thoroughly traumatic childhood...I will burrow into a comfort zone like a rabbit in a hole. I'll endure situations and feelings and a life and lifestyle that others wouldn't last a day in...but I can do misery terror and hopelessness. That's old hat. I'm a specialist, where that's concerned.
What I can't do is "the unknown". Only one of the many ways that those without a history of trauma can never identify with a sufferer's experience. Just try to explain to the average person that I have no real problem whatsoever with regularly putting myself in circumstances where I'm being shot at or hunted...but show up at a 9 to 5 job and chat casually with people wearing Oxford shirts and routinely sit through an hour lunch break in the communal cafeteria?....
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
But I found that one of the first things that proved my commitment to change, and therefore recovery, was a willingness to fail...to step out into the unfamiliar, fall flat on my face, pick myself up and brush myself off, and do it again. Until I did so, I didn't REALLY want to recover...no matter what I was telling myself. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired...but not enough to DO something about it. And until I did...I was just doomed to getting sicker and tireder.
Or as a friend once put it: 3 frogs are sitting on a log, and 1 decides to jump. How many are left?
...3. Why? ...One just DECIDED to jump...he didn't ACTUALLY jump.
Until I do the action involved...actually jump...I just get the same old same old.
It's said that the farthest distance is the 18 inches from the forehead to the heart. And I can vouch for that. I've known forever, now, that "we seek to recreate what is familiar to us, due it forming the reality we grew up in...because the familiar is safe". After all, if we grew up with abuse, we know how to live in that reality. It's simply part of our pattern of "normal". And we seek out what is "normal" for us. The "abnormal" is uncomfortable.
It would be more satisfying if it were more complicated and mysterious than that. No one likes to have their trials and hardships explained in simple terms, of course. Me included....But it's not.
Put simply: It may be soft and warm...but it's still sh*t.
..But does simply knowing that...the "intellectual awareness" of it...help?
Not at all. At least not for me. That doesn't "move it those 18 inches from the forehead to the heart".
What does? Becoming willing to tolerate what seems at first to be impossibly intolerable discomfort.
Maybe because of a thoroughly traumatic childhood...I will burrow into a comfort zone like a rabbit in a hole. I'll endure situations and feelings and a life and lifestyle that others wouldn't last a day in...but I can do misery terror and hopelessness. That's old hat. I'm a specialist, where that's concerned.
What I can't do is "the unknown". Only one of the many ways that those without a history of trauma can never identify with a sufferer's experience. Just try to explain to the average person that I have no real problem whatsoever with regularly putting myself in circumstances where I'm being shot at or hunted...but show up at a 9 to 5 job and chat casually with people wearing Oxford shirts and routinely sit through an hour lunch break in the communal cafeteria?....
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
But I found that one of the first things that proved my commitment to change, and therefore recovery, was a willingness to fail...to step out into the unfamiliar, fall flat on my face, pick myself up and brush myself off, and do it again. Until I did so, I didn't REALLY want to recover...no matter what I was telling myself. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired...but not enough to DO something about it. And until I did...I was just doomed to getting sicker and tireder.
Or as a friend once put it: 3 frogs are sitting on a log, and 1 decides to jump. How many are left?
...3. Why? ...One just DECIDED to jump...he didn't ACTUALLY jump.
Until I do the action involved...actually jump...I just get the same old same old.
Friday
Sponsor
For me it boils down to having Standards.
Right after my divorce... My standards were so low all I required was arms. Yep. Must have arms. :eek: :wideeyed: :cautious: Because all I wanted, and all I was capable of wanting, was to be held.
Okay! Let's raise that bar a little, shall we?
Still pathetically low, my next step was "Basic standards of human behavior". Things that should not be on a list of what to look for, but should simply be required in order to have any interaction with me whatsoever, much less meaningful interaction, and the absolute bottom of the barrel dregs of a relationship. A lot of "not" things. Like not abusive, not cruel, not disrespectful, not dismissive, not, not, not. (Seriously, like if you could get arrested for doing it to a stranger level of "not"). Sigh. Along with their counterparts. Nice, respectful, etc. But I started out with the nots.
From there things started getting interesting.
Standards
- Basic... Don't get arrested for this
- General... Personality traits.
- Definitions... Starts to make a person special
- Specific Qualities... Yay! Individuality!
- Aligning Goals in Life... A partner. Go figure. Who wants the same things out of life.
Just to touch on these / give a few examples broken down Barney style.
- General : Sense of Humor, Honest, Brave, Kind, Physical, etc.
- Definitions* : ex 36 Cocky v Arrogant (I love cocky, I hate arrogant)
- Specific Qualities : knee jerk reaction to a problem = ______, relaxes by = ____
- Aligning Goals: Travel is important, moral code,
__________
And within this framework above, things I need, versus things I want.
- Like I need laughter or need not-arrogant, but only want cocky (and get on with soft spoken and lots and lots of other types) or relaxes by ______.
AKA : Non negotiable vs negotiable things.
I got hung up on definitions for over a year. This is where, if I'm not careful, I can easily mistake one for the other... Even though they're worlds apart. I use cocky v arrogant (and these are my own definitions, regardless of what the OED says) as an example: Cocky = cheerful foxy confidence (I can do this!) vs Arrogant = self importance (I'm better than you). It was actually a line from the Girl Who Played With Fire series "She loved cocky bastards, she hated arrogant pricks" that did the blink blink blink. Lightbulb. Which is why I use it as an example all the time, but I have dozens these.
And I've been trying to rough out the 180degree difference between violence/violence for most of this past year (circling around, again). Because my best / happiest / most at peace relationships have all contained a rather high level of healthy violence. From the smile and punch in the shoulder, to the laughing full body tackle, to heading to the the mats to go work out some aggression via sparring. This is the complete opposite of somebody who enjoys hurting me (or others), is mean, cruel, uses the threat of violence or violence itself as a means of control, who takes out their temper on people they're suppose to protect. It's exactly like the difference between sex & rape. 180 degrees of difference.
Right after my divorce... My standards were so low all I required was arms. Yep. Must have arms. :eek: :wideeyed: :cautious: Because all I wanted, and all I was capable of wanting, was to be held.
Okay! Let's raise that bar a little, shall we?
Still pathetically low, my next step was "Basic standards of human behavior". Things that should not be on a list of what to look for, but should simply be required in order to have any interaction with me whatsoever, much less meaningful interaction, and the absolute bottom of the barrel dregs of a relationship. A lot of "not" things. Like not abusive, not cruel, not disrespectful, not dismissive, not, not, not. (Seriously, like if you could get arrested for doing it to a stranger level of "not"). Sigh. Along with their counterparts. Nice, respectful, etc. But I started out with the nots.
From there things started getting interesting.
Standards
- Basic... Don't get arrested for this
- General... Personality traits.
- Definitions... Starts to make a person special
- Specific Qualities... Yay! Individuality!
- Aligning Goals in Life... A partner. Go figure. Who wants the same things out of life.
Just to touch on these / give a few examples broken down Barney style.
- General : Sense of Humor, Honest, Brave, Kind, Physical, etc.
- Definitions* : ex 36 Cocky v Arrogant (I love cocky, I hate arrogant)
- Specific Qualities : knee jerk reaction to a problem = ______, relaxes by = ____
- Aligning Goals: Travel is important, moral code,
__________
And within this framework above, things I need, versus things I want.
- Like I need laughter or need not-arrogant, but only want cocky (and get on with soft spoken and lots and lots of other types) or relaxes by ______.
AKA : Non negotiable vs negotiable things.
I got hung up on definitions for over a year. This is where, if I'm not careful, I can easily mistake one for the other... Even though they're worlds apart. I use cocky v arrogant (and these are my own definitions, regardless of what the OED says) as an example: Cocky = cheerful foxy confidence (I can do this!) vs Arrogant = self importance (I'm better than you). It was actually a line from the Girl Who Played With Fire series "She loved cocky bastards, she hated arrogant pricks" that did the blink blink blink. Lightbulb. Which is why I use it as an example all the time, but I have dozens these.
And I've been trying to rough out the 180degree difference between violence/violence for most of this past year (circling around, again). Because my best / happiest / most at peace relationships have all contained a rather high level of healthy violence. From the smile and punch in the shoulder, to the laughing full body tackle, to heading to the the mats to go work out some aggression via sparring. This is the complete opposite of somebody who enjoys hurting me (or others), is mean, cruel, uses the threat of violence or violence itself as a means of control, who takes out their temper on people they're suppose to protect. It's exactly like the difference between sex & rape. 180 degrees of difference.
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It's a really good question to ask 'What do I want in a relationship?'. I did this very thing about a month ago reading a self help book, that asked you to write it down. It asked, 'What does a safe relationship look like?'
It said that relationships were both a den of pleasure and a laboratory for growth. That the most basic cornerstone of being in a truly healthy relationship is truth and honesty, backed up with actions that demonstrate the safety of the partners to be able to speak those things. In other words always feeling safe to be yourself and making sure your actions always allow your partner to feel that way. It has to be always or else it isn't safe, it's mostly safe, which doesn't work.
Partners in safe relationships go out of their way to make each other feel good, they respect each other's feelings.
They check in with each other regularly to make sure the other is happy and feels able to express their needs.
They put the Us ahead of the I.
They see each other as changing, growing entities not objects to be utilized.
They hold the individual dreams and goals of the other just as important as their own and help each other achieve them.
They show respect and love for each other's families (and children).
They communicate with a nice expression on their faces.
They respect and admire the strengths of each other.
They soothe each other's wounds, guard each other's weak spots.
They want the best for each other, even if that means separating.
There is fun in a safe relationship, space to be playful, curious, creative.
There is reliability and dependability in the relationship.
That's all I can think of for now. I think those things go for all relationships whether family, friends or partners.
It said that relationships were both a den of pleasure and a laboratory for growth. That the most basic cornerstone of being in a truly healthy relationship is truth and honesty, backed up with actions that demonstrate the safety of the partners to be able to speak those things. In other words always feeling safe to be yourself and making sure your actions always allow your partner to feel that way. It has to be always or else it isn't safe, it's mostly safe, which doesn't work.
Partners in safe relationships go out of their way to make each other feel good, they respect each other's feelings.
They check in with each other regularly to make sure the other is happy and feels able to express their needs.
They put the Us ahead of the I.
They see each other as changing, growing entities not objects to be utilized.
They hold the individual dreams and goals of the other just as important as their own and help each other achieve them.
They show respect and love for each other's families (and children).
They communicate with a nice expression on their faces.
They respect and admire the strengths of each other.
They soothe each other's wounds, guard each other's weak spots.
They want the best for each other, even if that means separating.
There is fun in a safe relationship, space to be playful, curious, creative.
There is reliability and dependability in the relationship.
That's all I can think of for now. I think those things go for all relationships whether family, friends or partners.
- Post starter
- #8
Wow you guys are amazing, I am very grateful. Anyone else who might want to discuss I would love to hear. This came to me because one if my relationships I loved a girl who one night when I woke she was standing over me with a baseball bat. She broke it off because she didn't trust herself with me. But I was heartbroken. My mind totally disregarded that I was in a dangerous situation. So, relationships are strange to me.
This is great. So my life.....thank you for the laugh at myself.
@billie I heard once from a healer that those from abuse normally put up with whatever past abuse they were groomed for. For example, if you were asked to leave the house all the time and then when you begged to come back you were allowed this is most likely a behaviour that will become 'acceptable' to you. As my parents attempted to take my life - this seems to be where I draw the line. It is a complex set of circumstances.
To me, many of the statements above are dead on. The problem with me is that I don't trust those behaviours somehow. As I result I have learned to dig deeper and have realized that I must start with treating myself the way I want others to treat me. Stopping the negative self talk, taking care of myself as if I was my own child who needed love and compassion, expecting the right to a happy life and giving that to myself etc.
I can tell you about my errors in the past which caused me problems. I wanted to be in a relationship just to be in a relationship. I didn't really understand what a relationship does. My concept from observing my parents was inaccurate.
I think that if you want to be with another person, it should be because you are pursuing love and a long term commitment to developing love. So you expectations about love have to be fleshed out. It's not just words and co-dependency which is toxic. It's a pure thing and both parties have to genuinely want it. Neither person can be just talk. You have to make a promise to yourself not to settle and to keep moving on if you encounter disappointment. You also have to shiled yourself from predators who would take advantage of your romantic concepts and liars who will just abuse it.
I agree that there are a lot of "red flags" that you have to keep an eye out for. But another precaution you can take is to not share your home address, to not give out your number, to only meet people you don't know well in public places. It really does take a long time to get to know someone and a relationship/love is not worth taking foolish risks. I guess what I am saying is, toxic relationships often begin by diving in too quickly and forming emotional attachments too rapidly. You have to give people the time to reveal themselves to you, and if you are interacting with a psycho he might do it right away or he might do it later. Whenever someone shows you that they're nasty or cruel, you have to cut them out and walk away right away, as though it were nothing to you. Remember that you want a relationship and love, and abuse will not provide that.
Otherwise I think my ideas of a safe relationship include:
- Never being pressued to do anything sexual against your will/ sex feels natural and both parties want it
- there is no theft or fraud, or deception regarding monet /finances are handled in a fair and open way
- you never feel put on the spot or threatened, no mind games / you are in control of yourself
- you can be open about your feelings without feeling at risk or being told you are wrong / you can express yourself openly
- there is no verbal, physical, sexual abuse / you are in a safe environment mentally and phyiscally
When people start making lists like this, personally I feel overwhelmed. For me it's been crucial to learn to expect BS and cruelty from random people. Since I've chosen to only be in a relationship with one person (who is not yet in the picture) and not share myself with anyone else. The goal of love and a real relationship is what motivates me. Otherwise I don't need any bs and I am not giving myself to anyone who does not deserve it or taking anymore risks that will only hurt me.
I think that if you want to be with another person, it should be because you are pursuing love and a long term commitment to developing love. So you expectations about love have to be fleshed out. It's not just words and co-dependency which is toxic. It's a pure thing and both parties have to genuinely want it. Neither person can be just talk. You have to make a promise to yourself not to settle and to keep moving on if you encounter disappointment. You also have to shiled yourself from predators who would take advantage of your romantic concepts and liars who will just abuse it.
I agree that there are a lot of "red flags" that you have to keep an eye out for. But another precaution you can take is to not share your home address, to not give out your number, to only meet people you don't know well in public places. It really does take a long time to get to know someone and a relationship/love is not worth taking foolish risks. I guess what I am saying is, toxic relationships often begin by diving in too quickly and forming emotional attachments too rapidly. You have to give people the time to reveal themselves to you, and if you are interacting with a psycho he might do it right away or he might do it later. Whenever someone shows you that they're nasty or cruel, you have to cut them out and walk away right away, as though it were nothing to you. Remember that you want a relationship and love, and abuse will not provide that.
Otherwise I think my ideas of a safe relationship include:
- Never being pressued to do anything sexual against your will/ sex feels natural and both parties want it
- there is no theft or fraud, or deception regarding monet /finances are handled in a fair and open way
- you never feel put on the spot or threatened, no mind games / you are in control of yourself
- you can be open about your feelings without feeling at risk or being told you are wrong / you can express yourself openly
- there is no verbal, physical, sexual abuse / you are in a safe environment mentally and phyiscally
When people start making lists like this, personally I feel overwhelmed. For me it's been crucial to learn to expect BS and cruelty from random people. Since I've chosen to only be in a relationship with one person (who is not yet in the picture) and not share myself with anyone else. The goal of love and a real relationship is what motivates me. Otherwise I don't need any bs and I am not giving myself to anyone who does not deserve it or taking anymore risks that will only hurt me.
spookedlife
Bronze Member
I don't think this can be stated often enough. Thanks.
Same for that. Thanks.
D
Deleted member 12723
An excellent book and resource for this is the Verbally Abusive relationship by Patricia Evans. Also I would highly recommend Controlling People also by Patricia Evans. Sure helped me out so much. I wish you the best.
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