What Is Your Understanding of Love?

[Nicolette]

Love without trust can die.

Love without honesty can die too...trust is your faith in the other person....the other person must have integrity and be honest to earn and keep that trust.

 

[fin]

I needed to bring this forward...I think sometimes...well I wont ramble on.

Real love, can be found... all sorts of places...

I find it impossible to find it for myself, I mean that...well I mean that I am unable to think that I am worthy of being loved, and my friend off-line has told me that unless I love myself I am unable to love others. I don't believe this to be true.

She also said I will never know love and never be loved...I maybe need to evaluate my friendship here -I think- maybe?

I know I love my son so I know.. I think that she is wrong on this....although her ....well she is ..well I know I am letting her in some way make me doubt myself on this. I have been told here that I am worthy of love, I believe that everyone is, so therefore as I come under that logical bracket of everyone, I therefore think I should be worthy also. But I don't feel it. I don't feel that worthiness...

And I also think that I am capable of love, I think I show it....I think I have shown it...I think I have felt it for others, and for someone else....I am hoping that I am right in this. I am very unsure at the moment. And not just about this....

I needed to read this and I am hoping that someone else will be able to get something from this thread. I know I can't be the only one that struggles with this.
And having been told by abuser's that they loved me I know hasn't helped me understand what love is, or rather accept love.

Or how to be loved. How to accept love and ....anyhow...

 

[fin]

I know that this unworthiness affects every aspect of my life, for instance; from practical survival things like washing or eating, to trusting and everything around and between these things.

I find the level that abusive love has shattered me, overwhelming.



~fin


(maybe I should start another thread in PTSD chat about this, I just felt maybe enough threads from me, enough rambling on...so rest easy.)

 

[cypher]

I needed to bring this forward...I think sometimes...well I wont ramble on.

Real love, can be found... all sorts of places...

I find it impossible to find it for myself, I mean that...well I mean that I am unable to think that I am worthy of being loved, and my friend off-line has told me that unless I love myself I am unable to love others. I don't believe this to be true.

She also said I will never know love and never be loved

Interesting fin. I think noone will ever put forth the effort to love me, noone will ever try to. I dont think I will ever be loved by someone.

I keep myself at a distance from people, but I dont think anyone will try to move past that, or care enough too, if I find myself in a group. I'm going to die alone, and noone will care- Im too anti-social. This is all of my own doing- and I like it this way, I dont know if I can change that.

 

[Tinyflame]

I don't know much, but I believe that love is the opposite of selfishness. And I believe that it has to be a free choice. And I believe that it can be greater than any negative.

 

[heather q]

I know that this unworthiness affects every aspect of my life, for instance; from practical survival things like washing or eating, to trusting and everything around and between these things.

I find the level that abusive love has shattered me, overwhelming.

~fin

(maybe I should start another thread in PTSD chat about this, I just felt maybe enough threads from me, enough rambling on...so rest easy.)

Fin, Go for it, start another thread, I can relate it is important to me.
Heather

 

[rmf3175]

I agree Junebug. To be genuine it must be given away freely.

 

[fin]

Fin, Go for it, start another thread, I can relate it is important to me.
Heather

Bless you Heather, I am not really sure how I would go about doing that at the moment.

Maybe something like love equating to worth and worthlessness, and how it inter-relates to us across the board?

I dont know, I do know that love is many things to many people.

And I also think there are many more types of love, so understanding and shared commone language are important on this.

I know I am cold and tired and that equates with not enough love for myself. Or self respect.

And I know that I have put myself at the bottom of a very long list of people that I have loved and cared for before me. And that list always manages to continue to grow before it ever gets to me.

And I am not talking but about the romantic slushy stuff, it will be a cold day in hell, before I ever even think of anything like that again, and I have made no secret of my feelings on that here, from the get-go. But I am not knocking it for those that have a beautiful shared love it can be a most amazingly beautiful thing. And I am not talking sperficially here.

Although when I read others who say the same thing about romantic shared love-love, and that they are resistant to it, I find myself very sad that they have come to that point in their lives. I find it funny that I am not able to see that sadness in relation to myself, and feel sad that I feel that way. I only know I feel relief at being alone in that way right now and have done for some time.

But loneliness itself is debilitating. I watched this amazing film this week, that dealt with love across many levels. The thing that got to me, apart from the central story, was the love and support within and of a small town; and how many different people could come together and work through something. It was heartwarming and beautiful, but I found my reality on this different, and it made me face something that I know I wasn't ready to at that point in time. I know I will have to come back and adress this at some point I just know that at the moment I am not ready to.

It is hard to try to find that I am worth dignity and that I should be able to love myself no matter what, I just can't...although I know I have to work on this more. Because I believe from what I have read here we have to try to love ourselves, and keep trying.

This is almost philosophical, actually maybe it is.

 

[heather q]

I think that I have to love myself before I can love someone else, so then I have to define 'love myself' and I think that is to accept myself, I'm working on that, I think I shall get to love myself some time not too far away and then it will open up circumstances for looking at loving others. I don't think there is a short cut, it is to feel whole.
Heather

 

[TLight]

I agree that love is the opposite of selfishness. It is only through the extension beyond self that we can be truly unconditionallly loving.

I've had a lot of experience with truly selfish people, unfortunately. I've been used and victimized repeatedly by such people. It is amazing that they can be so opposite of what I value in life; things like helping others, giving comfort, not stressing others unnecessarily, etc. etc. Due to my abuse, I learned to be the ultimate people pleaser, hurting myself in the process. It is a fine line still...........I tend to give so much and 'takers' can sense it.
I'm with a 'giver' now and I"m learning to accept love for myself and take it in and enjoy the pampering.........and love giving back. This is ideal! He is the most unselfish man I've ever known.........and I've known a lot of men.

To have a relationship where both partners extend beyond themselves for the growth and comfort of the other...........unconditional unselfishness. It makes for a truly happy life. I feel blessed and I will cherish this person forever.

 

[fin]

I agree with what you have written here TLight. This to me is one of the absolutes of love, not the only absolute but one of them, and I think you have explained it very well here.

I agree that love is the opposite of selfishness. It is only through the extension beyond self that we can be truly unconditionallly loving.

I've had a lot of experience with truly selfish people, unfortunately. I've been used and victimized repeatedly by such people. It is amazing that they can be so opposite of what I value in life; things like helping others, giving comfort, not stressing others unnecessarily, etc. etc. Due to my abuse, I learned to be the ultimate people pleaser, hurting myself in the process. It is a fine line still...........I tend to give so much and 'takers' can sense it.

I also have the same experience in giving and truly selfish people, and it is I believe, a shame to us all as a society and people from all walks of life, that more are not able to stand against abuse and that in some way something can come from our shared experience. Because that love that we show for each other can benefit us all, and that fact can and is sometimes lost on others. It is not idealism or un-necessary, it is not love that is given with no meaning, it is love that often just gives because it can and wants nothing in return.

I do not believe this to be a stupid or naiev thing I give when I give of my love, despite what others may think. I am trying to understand it is not a flaw, but something that can help to make me stronger; knowing that I can give it and do so freely. I cannot always help or make others see that this is what or who I am, but I have to try to let go of that; because it says more of the other person than it does of me, that they cannot understand this in me is their problem and I try not make it mine, even though sometimes I have no choice in this. Because sometimes it will become my problem that someone else is unable to understand this as my way, but it does not mean that I am wrong. Although I can often think it is me; when I am beaten down by it, I just have to try and keep trying to live and love the best way I am able to. And not be knocked by someone else believing that their way is better or more right than mine because they are stronger. We have to try to allow ourselves to grow and for our own beliefs to become strong in us.

So that somebody can see that from out of the things that have happened to us, we can all understand and perhaps believe that it is not naiev idealism to want for something more, or something honest, real and something were integrity means and stands for something. That idealism in anything as well as love is not a relic from an innocent or even not so innocent past. By realisation, that just paying lip service and not really living this way will not in actuality make it so, for love to be genuine it has to beging with ourselves. That we really have to live it to believe and strive for it as a truth, not our truth but the real reality of things, of anything and in this case of love.

Whether it is perceived or not there is a truth in life that we have to acknwledge and can only hope to live for. And that must cross all boards in life, that must cross through love also.

To have a relationship where both partners extend beyond themselves for the growth and comfort of the other...........unconditional unselfishness. It makes for a truly happy life. I feel blessed and I will cherish this person forever.

I think that what you have written here is very beautiful TLight, and it warms me that you have found this understanding and acceptance within your relationship.

What you have found with your partner is to me what is found in a mutual love, which through mutual respect and shared understanding of and for each others needs and feelings there can be an amazing unselfishness to love that can even exceed our needs if we but let it.

The mutual love that you have found and cherish, I believe is founded on an even and unselfish respect, and I think this is a lost quality in so much of society today. I think that so many of the desires we have seen exhibited; we can find that they are sometimes fuelled by selfishness and instant gratification with often no respect or understanding for anyone else's needs but that of the individual. If we could stop and look at just some of the hurt that has been inflicted, just reading here on the forum from our own experiences of and through trauma, we can maybe see; some of what has fuelled our perpetrators in their abuse of us. And know perhaps that often times it is down to selfishness and lack of respect for the needs of anyone other than their own self, that our own perpetrators own abusive needs are seen by some to be all and others are seen to be nothing in their quest for self satisfaction.
I thankyou TLight for how you have written this here, and hope and pray that you will always be happy in what you have found. You are right to cherish your relationship, it is a beautiful thing. We all should be so happy if we could find this for ourselves. Thankyou T for showing us that there is still a reason to hope.

~fin

 

[fin]

Could someone please let me know if what I have written above here in post #47 is ok. Because I know often I am preaching to the converted, but sometimes I feel like I am just standing on a soap box and prattling on to myself!! If someone else agrees with me on the above post here, I would really appreciate knowing this today. Because I would love to think that I am not alone and that something in what I say resonates with somebody else, and that they understand me. But I am cool also if that is not the case.

I am not saying that anyone has to agree with me, just sometimes I think maybe I am soo far out of the box and my comfort zone that maybe I am in an alternate universe. And today i just need to know which is the case, thankyou.

Oh and I do also know that I do write a lot; please know I am trying to curb this some where I can and am able to...so this is not my question, although I do undestand that I am taking a risk in asking directly and may get a whole lot back that I may have problems reading. But please if someone could let me know and measure and take into account where I am coming from, I would be very grateful. I am sorry to be asking like this, am obviously having some issues and other stuff going on today, so I will appreciate anything that will help me understand myself and how I am seen by others better.

I know I can go on sometimes, but please does what I say make any sense to anyone? And this could also be seen as irony here; because I am obviously in need of external verification and validation of what I am believing to be my truth. hah!!!
Thankyou
~fin