When Suicide Becomes Justified

[joeylittle]

@Scarface - I'm going to try again, here.

Why are committing to finding a truly excellent surgeon and finding a proficient trauma therapist mutually exclusive?

I'm not going to tell you to accept your face. I'm not going to tell you that other people have it worse, or that your pain isn't valid, or that your suffering is less deserving of support.

But why can't you do both?

When you look in the mirror and see the gaping hole that your wound was - well, I don't think that's actually going to go away even after a surgeon does a perfect reconstruction. Your mind - your PTSD mind - will still see that gaping wound.

I know you've tried therapy - but you don't seem to have actually done any of the recognized treatments for PTSD.

Seeing a therapist isn't the key - doing trauma processing is. Kind of like how microdermabrasion wasn't the key - you need a reconstruction.

Does that make sense? And if I'm missing it, could you help me see?

I just don't think it's an either-or. I think you need both.

 

[Justmehere]

I have been suicidal. I have also been traumatized by the death of someone by suicide. I do not condone the act of suicide. I hold no judgement for those who struggle with or who eventually act on suicidal thoughts. It is a real consequence of severe mental health problems.

You seem clear that suicide is justified in some situations, that being mostly the the situation you are in, and nothing will change your mind. You don't really ask for advice, or state what the purpose of your post is. You are simply very clear on your plans to end your life, and even indicate where you will do it.

I think your statements are clear cry for much needed help, and I very much hope you do not end your life. I think you have much to give and offer the world, and I am concerned about those would would be traumatized by your choice to end your life.

But when it comes down to it, I can't convince you of out if and you don't seem ready or willing to be convinced out of it anyhow. So I'm not going to try to argue it with you. Others are better at that than me anyhow.

But I do have a question.

I get that you are in a lot of pain and very much struggling. You have been through a very horrible accident that you express has destroyed your identity, which you found in your looks. Every attempt made to encourage you, support you, offer you kind words... you rebuff them all. You state your positions all the more adamantly.

So I am left wondering, now that you have posted this bold pro-suicide view on a mental health forum, claiming in a community of people who are deeply struggling that there are some situations, mainly the situation you are in, where suicide is justified, and your disregard all other view points - what would you like from this forum?

Please forgive me if I am totally missing the point here of this thread, but it's not clear to me. (Like anyone, I can sometimes miss the forest for the trees.) Was it just to make your plans be known? To convince others that suicide can be a justifiable option? To get suggestions on other options to handle this pain other than death?

If you have a therapist, please do share with them your intent and plan to end your life so they are aware of how serious your condition has become.

 

[Fadeaway]

I have been thinking a lot about this thread. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the scar isn't the real issue. There is a deeper underlying issue here. I think the OP may be using thier focus on the scar as an avoidance tactic.

It is easy to have a knee-jerk reaction to this thread and make assumptions about the OP, I know I did, but for those of us who have struggled with suicidal ideation, if you take a look at what drives those thoughts and try to read in between the lines of what the OP is saying, you start to realise the OP is using the scar as a tool in a way.

I think it is possible that the OP doesn't understand many of the emotions and symptoms they are having and the scar is something they can easily point to and explain their symptoms away instead of looking deeper.

Then again I could be way off. One thing for sure is that the OP needs a good therapist.

Seeing a therapist isn't the key - doing trauma processing is. Kind of like how microdermabrasion wasn't the key - you need a reconstruction.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Scarface]

I have been thinking a lot about this thread. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the scar isn't the real issue. There is a deeper underlying issue here. I think the OP may be using thier focus on the scar as an avoidance tactic.

Wrong. It IS the scar that's the problem. I can't go out in public and lead a normal life for fear of judgement and inappropriate questions. My therapist even admitted to me that some people will ask/comment on my scar. I am basically imprisoned with it. I have become a recluse/hermit and have lost most of my friends and family. I can't enjoy anything social in life anymore. Fun events like going to a wedding are a source of agony and pain. I just can't live my life like this.

No one gets it until it's on their face.

 

[Scarface]

I get that you are in a lot of pain and very much struggling. You have been through a very horrible accident that you express has destroyed your identity, which you found in your looks. Every attempt made to encourage you, support you, offer you kind words... you rebuff them all. You state your positions all the more adamantly.

So I am left wondering, now that you have posted this bold pro-suicide view on a mental health forum, claiming in a community of people who are deeply struggling that there are some situations, mainly the situation you are in, where suicide is justified, and your disregard all other view points - what would you like from this forum?.

Just to be clear, the face is part of someone's identity. It is what we initially present to the world.

But to answer your question, I'm not entirely sure why I posted here. Mostly just to vent my frustrations/feelings. I get that life is a one shot deal, which is why I am not chucking in the towel quite yet. But if I can't get my face to a point where I am comfortable with it (and it doesn't have to be perfect), to at least be able to go in public and face the world, it will hold me back and I just don't see a point in suffering through a long sad life. Plus I am at a crucial point in my life where I might soon be too old to find a partner and have a family. This accident/scar could ruin this for me, if it doesn't get resolved soon.

I think suicide becomes justified when the pain is too great. We are all going to die anyways. Why suffer endlessly?

 

[Scarface]

@Scarface - I'm going to try again, here.

Why are committing to finding a truly excellent surgeon and finding a proficient trauma therapist mutually exclusive?.

I agree with you, I need to fix my mind in addition to my face to really be able to enjoy life again. But without progress with my face, my mind won't heal. So it's a catch 22.

 

[Scarface]

@ShodokanJenn

The scar on my face is more similar to your leg scar. It was a very dirty and traumatic wound with torn edges and lost muscle. And I have read that some scars actually look worse with time as skin ages.

As for a cosmetic vs plastic surgeon, all of the surgeons that I've found cater to the cosmetic side, even if they do reconstruction (especially for the face). And trust me, I've looked and looked, and looked. Sadly, cosmetics is where all the money is.

 

[Justmehere]

But to answer your question, I'm not entirely sure why I posted here. Mostly just to vent my frustrations/feelings.

Thanks for responding to my question.

There was a time period where I planned my own suicide for 10 months. I didn't tell anyone about it, and I wish I would have. I picked a date, a means, a location. I was convinced I would end my life by that date if my circumstances didn't change by then. It seemed like spending any longer of a time in those circumstances was just too great a burden to bear. Just having a plan to end my life was almost like an escape that I knew I had. It did provide some temporary false sense of relief to know that my pain would not last forever.

In those 10 months, my life circumstances did not change, despite all my efforts. But when the day came, someone else had come into my life and was fighting for me with me, and I couldn't end my life because I knew they would be hurt. So I waited another day, and another day, and another day...

Eventually the urge to escape the pain at all costs went away. My circumstances only changed after that. Planning for my death, I felt like that helped me cope in the here in now, just to know the pain would not last. But it actually backfired and made it harder to find solutions.

It also did something else. It traumatized me. It was another traumatic event that increased my symptoms. I know some may not believe that surviving suicidal intentions is a form of perhaps self inflicted trauma, but for me, it was. That date every year is a horrible anniversary for me. I have had full on flashbacks about holding the means to die in my hands and of another point of arranging the means online.

I want you to be able to have all you need to find solutions. The brain has a hard time holding two different contradictory goals in mind and fully investing in one or the other. If you plan for death, part of you will be holding back in your search for solutions to the very real pain you are in. It is really clear you do need solutions for the pain you are in. The pain of the reality of the scar. You are in pain.

You are thankfully not planning to die right away. So you have time that you plan to live, at least between now and a few years from now.

You have this day right now.

What about a plan to reduce the pain you are experiencing now, during this time that you do plan to live? What about ways to reduce that pain and suffering while you search for a solution to the scar itself?

Perhaps your mind will not fully heal while you have the scar, as you say it will not, but I believe that the amount of pain you are in could be temporarily reduced for the time that you search for a solution to the scar. It would take some really hard work and uncomfortable choices, but I think you could do it. I don't think you are shying away from discomfort in your search for solutions.

 

[The Albatross]

I find that irrespective of the causal difficulty, scarring, that you really don't like you're persona disturbed. Would that be an accurate assessment?

News flash.... there will be all manner of trials and tribulations that will disturb your persona... your sporting accident is just the first volley. How you manage or don't, well that is uniquely up to you.

I find this is more about perceptual "justification" than depression or suicide. "If my persona/self image is not intact I will plan to die". I think that if you'd pause to consider your elders and their own adversities you may want to rethink that.

 

[scout86]

http://www.webmd.com/brain/features/bob-woodruff-after-traumatic-brain-injury
I hope that link works. I heard the story on the radio this AM and thought of @Scarface . Interesting piece about a news anchor. It references his reconstructive surgeon. Maybe there's a way to track that person down.

 

[Friday]

for fear of judgement and inappropriate questions.

^^^^
This right here? Seems like the bottom line. Regardless of what is causing the fear, or what the fear is of (judgement & questions in your case, being raped in someone else's case), it's the fear itself that is imprisoning you. Afterall, If you didn't care? It wouldn't be a problem... Because you wouldn't care! But you do care. Deeply. It's gutting you, and your fear of other people is ruining your life.

I suspect that's where a lot of the friction is coming from. Someone with a delusional disorder? Yeah. You can tell them they're not going to be XYZ (whatever they're afraid of). Someone with PTSD? XYZ has already happened. The fear is totally rational in that regard. Can't just tell someone with PTSD not to be afraid, it's never going to happen (it already has)... And can't just tell them not to care / don't be afraid-angry. If it were that easy? We wouldn't have PTSD. We'd be fine.

You'll find this theme is incredibly common with PTSD. Thousands of posts here in the forum surrounding exactly this; fear of _______ leading to isolation, depression, hyper-vigilance, panic attacks, etc.

This is where, if you take a step back, people here really do understand the exhausting painful reality. Not only that but are walking through it right now, or have walked through it and have come out the other side.

You may say to yourself that it's ridiculous that someone would do all the things you're doing in your own life because they're afraid every stranger is a potential rapist, instead of every stranger a potential judger (But people do judge! > People also rape. // But I'm judged every day! > Many people here have spent years and years being raped every day). Or it may suddenly click! with an Ooooooooh! People have lost their identity, sense of self, chutzpah, ability to be social, ability to work, ability to be rational, ability to enjoy the things they used to -and want to- in their lives, trapped & imprisoned by fear & rage, etc... And are sharing their own experience/strength in what is or has worked in their own lives...( As well as the "Don't be me! Don't do this!" flashing warning signs of pitfalls to avoid whenever possible). It can be a little wacky stepping into a PTSD community -where people really do get it- from the world at large -where people really don't get it. Especially as PTSD tends to come along with trust issues. So not only is there the gear shift from "You don't understand" to "WTF? You understand???", but there's the knee-jerk NoTrust (you say you understand, but I don't believe you) making connection even harder.

Is everyone going to understand everything? Hell no. There are things about your trauma that I will never understand, & things about my trauma that you will never understand. Ditto symptoms. Not all of us have the same symptoms, and our personalities are all different, so even when we have the same symptoms? We may approach them very differently.

As a suggestion? Look for similarities. Search for posts surrounding fear, judgement, isolation, hating your body, etc. Things that you yourself are struggling with... And look at the solutions people are presenting. Not things specific to a situation (like bangs for fear of people seeing your scar, or a female doctor for fear of men touching another poster), but the step back. ((Can't go outside for fear of _______? Go outside for 1 minute, come back in. Over and over again until the 1 minute? Pfft. I can do 1 minute standing on my head! :p But chaseus keeeerist... 2 minutes left me sweating and exhausted and hating myself. :wtf: )) Create some distance.

A lot of things? Aren't going to apply. As individuals we each of us have a lot of different struggles. What's easiest for one being the most difficult for another. You know yourself best :) Look for the things that do apply. Look for the similarities. For tips, tricks, tools you can use.

 

[SabrinaB]

As for a cosmetic vs plastic surgeon, all of the surgeons that I've found cater to the cosmetic side, even if they do reconstruction (especially for the face).

Haven't caught up on your intro yet unfortunately. Others have addressed the deeper core issues so I'll limit my response to this. A suggestion is to broaden your physician search to include ENT (ears, nose and throat) surgeons, if you haven't already.

This is a specialty that's skilled in managing cancer of the mouth, throat and neck. These are invasive tumors that create havoc on the surrounding tissues so these folks are very attuned to both function and appearance. Some are certified in both ENT and plastics because of this (I admire the grit of people who have these cancers because the treatments are agonizing and the results are so disfiguring. But the will to live is strong and many go on to live very fulfilling lives).

I had a skin cancer removed just above my lip that left a larger than dime size wound so was referred to an ENT/plastics surgeon. He did a remarkable job closing it. Thought my lip would be pulled upward in a disfiguring way, but came out beautiful.

So sorry for your struggles. Do know there are wonderful people in the world dedicated to helping people like yourself.